SO, is Yahas 2009 find an error or variety?

Whitby · May 14, 2009 1:14PM

I have also found the exact same cud (if thats what it is) on 6 of the coins I got in rolls.

WHO and where would I go to get this confir,ed as an error or varoety and do we know if any D mint mark folks are seeing this as well?

tahoe98 · May 15, 2009 2:14AM

..........well, you could always e-mail coin world with a pic and ask if they want you to send it to them for examination and a possible story in their 'collectors' clearinghouse' column.

Bochiman · May 15, 2009 2:49AM

A 'ding" on a coin is not an error.
A die chip, or whatnot, would be a variety. Maybe of some interest to some, but, unlike doubled dies and even die cracks and some cuds, I can't find myself getting excited about a "ding" on a coin.
I would actually prefer one without it.

Whitby · May 15, 2009 2:57AM

<< A 'ding" on a coin is not an error.
A die chip, or whatnot, would be a variety. Maybe of some interest to some, but, unlike doubled dies and even die cracks and some cuds, I can't find myself getting excited about a "ding" on a coin.
I would actually prefer one without it. >>

Well, its a die chip, its a variety, its nice to have on a coin and I do not recall asking what you preferred.

But hey thanks for the feedback.

tahoe98 · May 15, 2009 3:07AM

...........OUCH!

fc · May 15, 2009 3:16AM

whitby.. you seem to be getting upset when people have a differing
opinion then yours and they are not getting excited about this non event.

so the rest of us will simply grin at the threads about this coin:

1. did you order? what is your order number? delivery date?
2. darn mint. not here yet. they suck!
3. you see those sales on ebay? they do not even have them in hand!
4. how many do you think they minted? a billion? seventeen? what will it do to the price?
5. i am canceling my orders. the mint sucks! they made too many.
6. I GOT MY ROLLs FIRST SUCKERS! OFF TO EBAY $$$
7. ebay price thread with running values of them sold.
8. I sent some in to be graded! just look at that plastic and the number
on the label!
9. darn mint! mine are not here yet while others say they arrived!
10. ebay becomes a dumping ground for a collectible flash in the pan
and people discuss what they got for them.

And a few months from now no one will care. There will be a new neato
product from the mint to buy in the hundreds so collectors can be
awe struck by the awesome examples they have and can enjoy for
the rest of their lives!!!!

yawn.

Whitby · May 15, 2009 3:17AM

Folks, I just goty excited about a potential variety on a newly released coin. Thats all.

I have been either explicity or implictly told its

boring
modern garbage
its not a die chip'its a ding and I HATE DINGS etc etc etc
or even better, talked down to as if I had to go school to learn how to use a Q tip

Look, thats swell, but you know, I didnt ask for those observations. I very much understamnd that sure yes, that will happen, and hey thats swell.

However a majority has been well, just a tad demeaning. I was not born with coin knowledge, my mother did not insert coin rolls into the birth canal so I could come off wanting to appear that I have had some utterly supreme in born knowledge of coins.

Its a hobby folks, I like it, and I enjoy it. If it stops being fun, then I dont do it. Anything else is a twisted cry for help and just not warranted in this context.

YaHa · May 15, 2009 3:38AM

<< Folks, I just goty excited about a potential variety on a newly released coin. Thats all.

I have been either explicity or implictly told its

boring
modern garbage
its not a die chip'its a ding and I HATE DINGS etc etc etc
or even better, talked down to as if I had to go school to learn how to use a Q tip

Look, thats swell, but you know, I didnt ask for those observations. I very much understamnd that sure yes, that will happen, and hey thats swell.

However a majority has been well, just a tad demeaning. I was not born with coin knowledge, my mother did not insert coin rolls into the birth canal so I could come off wanting to appear that I have had some utterly supreme in born knowledge of coins.

Its a hobby folks, I like it, and I enjoy it. If it stops being fun, then I dont do it. Anything else is a twisted cry for help and just not warranted in this context. >>

Whitby, don't let a few critics banter you.. All they have in their boring life is that subjective attitude that they wake up every morning with.. Remember that commercial, the old fart comes home and speaks out.. Not another day. Not another day.. And the parrot mocks him.. Well picture that when these hoople heads start ripping your time and energy questions on here. Brother you know who you are and that is all that matters..

I am often told my threads are worthless and meaningless. Well my friend it's all good, many enjoy my boring ass. Funny thing there are a few that troll my posts are looking to get that coin badge at the next hoe down at their club meetings...

Btw.. I don't see not freaking dings on my new pennies.. Someone needs to buy some Glasses..

I had wished, I could of met you and others yesterday at Union Station we could of had a good laugh about a few

on here.

astrorat · May 15, 2009 3:48AM

Whitby-

The coin is a variety and not an error. A rule of thumb is that if the "novelty" is repeated the same on subsequent coins, then it is a variety. If it is unique, then it is an error.

Exceptions are "novelties" such as doubled die coins where there was an error in the die or hub making process, but each coin produced is the same and thus a variety. "Experts" still disagree on the proper term for such a coin.*

Your coin (and YaHa's) appears to have a die chip and thus each coin subsequently struck by that reverse die will have the same die chip or one that gets progressively larger.

Enjoy your find!

Lane

tahoe98 · May 15, 2009 3:56AM

............mister fred weinberg...................please enter the building...................we need a ruling.

RTS · May 15, 2009 4:39AM

To each his own but I find it silly to consider most little nicks, blemishes etc. to be errors/varieties...though with certainty what is silly to me is important to another.

I should note that my post is not directed at the original poster per se but just a general comment on what I view as the absurdity of most the
modern trivial errors/varieties...I guess I should not single out moderns and add I think VAMS are silly too.

Bochiman · May 15, 2009 4:44AM

<< 

<< A 'ding" on a coin is not an error.
A die chip, or whatnot, would be a variety. Maybe of some interest to some, but, unlike doubled dies and even die cracks and some cuds, I can't find myself getting excited about a "ding" on a coin.
I would actually prefer one without it. >>

Well, its a die chip, its a variety, its nice to have on a coin and I do not recall asking what you preferred.

But hey thanks for the feedback. >>

Not a problem whitby....I will just put your posts into the ignore bin since you don't seem to want replies unless they mirror what you want.

kranky · May 15, 2009 5:28AM

I liked astrorat's succinct explanation.

commoncents05 · May 15, 2009 5:42AM

Die chips are varieties, and not something that gets much attention, it is not something to get overly excited over. I agree with Bochiman, and I think it was rude to disregard his comment just because you didn't like what you were hearing.

-Paul

seanq · May 15, 2009 5:42AM

<< I liked astrorat's succinct explanation. >>

Agreed, it is more or less the same explanation I gave on the other thread about this coin.

Sean Reynolds

Whitby · May 15, 2009 6:33AM

<< Whitby-

The coin is a variety and not an error. A rule of thumb is that if the "novelty" is repeated the same on subsequent coins, then it is a variety. If it is unique, then it is an error.

Exceptions are "novelties" such as doubled die coins where there was an error in the die or hub making process, but each coin produced is the same and thus a variety. "Experts" still disagree on the proper term for such a coin.*

Your coin (and YaHa's) appears to have a die chip and thus each coin subsequently struck by that reverse die will have the same die chip or one that gets progressively larger.

Enjoy your find!

Lane >>

Thanks kindly.

I did indeed have it confirmed that this was a die chip and traded a few of my rolls at 40 bucks a pop for credit. Thats correct, I went to a B&M, had about 15 people eyeball the thing, 5 were dealers. SO, I said wow, thanks. Then a bidding war erupted. Then the man says 40 a roll. I say, I dont sell, but do you extend credit? He says yes. AND yes, I bought some other coins and yes, I kept a majority of my rolls and was advised to keep them.

So for all you who say you dont like dings, thats fine, but for those of you who say there is no interest, I just made 80X face for store credit. THANK GOD THESE FOLKS DONT CARE OTHERWISE I WOULD HAVE MADE 100x face

1)They are not dings
2)Yaha should be credited with eyeballing the variety
3)I think its swell that folks are not interested and even disagree, its how you disagree.

I very much appreciate the input, I do not appreciate the downtalking, and a PM has been sent to Yaha for a thanks

Bochiman · May 15, 2009 6:45AM

<< 

<< Whitby-

The coin is a variety and not an error. A rule of thumb is that if the "novelty" is repeated the same on subsequent coins, then it is a variety. If it is unique, then it is an error.

Exceptions are "novelties" such as doubled die coins where there was an error in the die or hub making process, but each coin produced is the same and thus a variety. "Experts" still disagree on the proper term for such a coin.*

Your coin (and YaHa's) appears to have a die chip and thus each coin subsequently struck by that reverse die will have the same die chip or one that gets progressively larger.

Enjoy your find!

Lane >>

Thanks kindly.

I did indeed have it confirmed that this was a die chip and traded a few of my rolls at 40 bucks a pop for credit. Thats correct, I went to a B&M, had about 15 people eyeball the thing, 5 were dealers. SO, I said wow, thanks. Then a bidding war erupted. Then the man says 40 a roll. I say, I dont sell, but do you extend credit? He says yes. AND yes, I bought some other coins and yes, I kept a majority of my rolls and was advised to keep them.

So for all you who say you dont like dings, thats fine, but for those of you who say there is no interest, I just made 80X face for store credit. THANK GOD THESE FOLKS DONT CARE OTHERWISE I WOULD HAVE MADE 100x face

1)They are not dings
2)Yaha should be credited with eyeballing the variety
3)I think its swell that folks are not interested and even disagree, its how you disagree.

I very much appreciate the input, I do not appreciate the downtalking, and a PM has been sent to Yaha for a thanks >>

Good for you, Neptune

seanq · May 15, 2009 6:59AM

<< 

<< 

So for all you who say you dont like dings, thats fine, but for those of you who say there is no interest, I just made 80X face for store credit. THANK GOD THESE FOLKS DONT CARE OTHERWISE I WOULD HAVE MADE 100x face

1)They are not dings
2)Yaha should be credited with eyeballing the variety
3)I think its swell that folks are not interested and even disagree, its how you disagree.

I very much appreciate the input, I do not appreciate the downtalking, and a PM has been sent to Yaha for a thanks >>

Good for you, Neptune

>>

Is this where I criticize you for marking them up more than 20%?

Sean Reynolds

Whitby · May 15, 2009 7:00AM

<< 

<< 

<< Whitby-

The coin is a variety and not an error. A rule of thumb is that if the "novelty" is repeated the same on subsequent coins, then it is a variety. If it is unique, then it is an error.

Exceptions are "novelties" such as doubled die coins where there was an error in the die or hub making process, but each coin produced is the same and thus a variety. "Experts" still disagree on the proper term for such a coin.*

Your coin (and YaHa's) appears to have a die chip and thus each coin subsequently struck by that reverse die will have the same die chip or one that gets progressively larger.

Enjoy your find!

Lane >>

Thanks kindly.

I did indeed have it confirmed that this was a die chip and traded a few of my rolls at 40 bucks a pop for credit. Thats correct, I went to a B&M, had about 15 people eyeball the thing, 5 were dealers. SO, I said wow, thanks. Then a bidding war erupted. Then the man says 40 a roll. I say, I dont sell, but do you extend credit? He says yes. AND yes, I bought some other coins and yes, I kept a majority of my rolls and was advised to keep them.

So for all you who say you dont like dings, thats fine, but for those of you who say there is no interest, I just made 80X face for store credit. THANK GOD THESE FOLKS DONT CARE OTHERWISE I WOULD HAVE MADE 100x face

1)They are not dings
2)Yaha should be credited with eyeballing the variety
3)I think its swell that folks are not interested and even disagree, its how you disagree.

I very much appreciate the input, I do not appreciate the downtalking, and a PM has been sent to Yaha for a thanks >>

Good for you, Neptune

>>

Thanks to you Pluto.

DieClash · May 15, 2009 7:09AM

Ha! "Hoople Head". Feed 'em to Wu's pigs.

Whitby · May 15, 2009 7:17AM

<< Ha! "Hoople Head". Feed 'em to Wu's pigs.

>>

I have not heard Hoople Head in a while.

Clever really.

cladking · May 15, 2009 7:48AM

I consider die chips to be errors.

A type is an intentional change in design and a variety is a (normally) tiny
change that was unintentional but allows one to differentiate one die from
another. This might be a doubled die or it could be anything added to or
subtracted from individual dies and hubs.

A die chip isn't really repeatable since there are usually going to be stages
and when it's noticed or it gets too bad the die will be replaced.

This doesn't mean the die chips aren't collectible just that they aren't true
varieties. Collect what you like.

Cam40 · May 15, 2009 8:12AM

Thats what I thought too Sam. Die chips/breaks/gouges are all errors and
not a variety since the anomoly in question usually isnt part of the intended design.

Wu`s pigs...

every watch that show and say, who the heck is writing these lines anyway.

sweadgin!

MsMorrisine · May 15, 2009 9:07AM

<< whitby.. you seem to be getting upset when people have a differing
opinion then yours and they are not getting excited about this non event. >>

true to some extent.

<< 
so the rest of us will simply grin at the threads about this coin:

1. did you order? what is your order number? delivery date?
2. darn mint. not here yet. they suck!
3. you see those sales on ebay? they do not even have them in hand!
4. how many do you think they minted? a billion? seventeen? what will it do to the price?
5. i am canceling my orders. the mint sucks! they made too many.
6. I GOT MY ROLLs FIRST SUCKERS! OFF TO EBAY $$$
7. ebay price thread with running values of them sold.
8. I sent some in to be graded! just look at that plastic and the number
on the label!
9. darn mint! mine are not here yet while others say they arrived!
10. ebay becomes a dumping ground for a collectible flash in the pan
and people discuss what they got for them.

And a few months from now no one will care. There will be a new neato
product from the mint to buy in the hundreds so collectors can be
awe struck by the awesome examples they have and can enjoy for
the rest of their lives!!!!

yawn. >>

FC you seem to be getting bent at threads you do not like.

I notice one not in your list
11. Damned dealer!

hmmm

wait

the mint is essentially a dealer, and the only one for some coins, and is run by our tax dollars

so, consider all mint... errr... it's really PBGS, though... complaints as complaints about a monopoly dealer we fund through government taxes.

feel better?

notwilight · May 15, 2009 9:11AM

Probably both. It is certainly an error. Die chips are errors. Varieties are generally a subset of errors.

Any error, die chip or otherwise that there are enough of them around that they become recognized and sought after/described in a book or on a website/or otherwise identified, becomes a variety. Once it becomes a variety, it is still an error. --Jerry

IGWT · May 15, 2009 9:53AM

"Errors" account for all kinds of varieties, e.g., repunched dates, doubled dies, and misplaced dates. These errors occur during the process by which the design is imparted to the die and are reflected on all coins struck with that die. They constitute what we think of as die varieties. A die chip, in comparison, most often occurs during the striking of the coin. Only coins struck with that particular die after the chip will show the damage. For this reason, I tend to think of die chips as a die stage, not as a die variety, even though both are the result of an “error.” The same holds true for coins that are struck clashed dies or with dies that are polished to remove damage, like the 3-leggers. They reflect one stage through which a particular die passes, and so they don't qualify as die varieties.

7over8 · May 15, 2009 11:48AM

there are other finds (error) showing up on ebay
some that are much more defined than the one yaha has mentioned

YaHa · May 15, 2009 1:25PM

<< there are other finds (error) showing up on ebay
some that are much more defined than the one yaha has mentioned >>

Defined? It's the same error I mentioned on the "C" in cent... Plain and simple.. More photos and details doesn't warrant any differents in the error/variety itself..

Others Variety/Error should be viewed as positive.. Cudos to the new ones that are found. They won't be the last.. I am glad to have some in my collection..

I cannot control others that have found some of this type I did and now are trying to make quick cash off of these, this is the USA right..

In the long run I just hope this error/variety won't be a stinker and these dealers/sellers that are making quick bucks off of them don't delute the status of what was found..

Any error or variety is cool to find. So to all collectors that like these or don't, it should be viewed as Coin Collecting and that's it..

One more thing.. It's cool to see new minted coins come on the market with "Errors".. The reason I state this, is not so long ago there was a statement released from the U.S. Mint,that technology and Quality control was suppose to not let things like this happen, but hell it's your tax dollars at work and some of you are making funnies about what someone found, but most are not..

Complain to you damn elected officials or Mr. Moy himself. Tell them you pay taxes for perfectly original designed minted coins.

Explain to them you want the "Bang" for your buck and stop messing up our U.S. Mintage coins.

YaHa · May 15, 2009 1:33PM

<< Thats what I thought too Sam. Die chips/breaks/gouges are all errors and
not a variety since the anomoly in question usually isnt part of the intended design.

Wu`s pigs...

every watch that show and say, who the heck is writing these lines anyway.

sweadgin! >>

I miss that show Deadwood.. Half of those officials from Yankton reminds me of these know it alls on here, to much education and not one bit of street smarts.. Remember anyone can be bought for the right price..

I know a guy on here thinks he is Mayor Phardum. A lot of power but will kiss a buttock in a minute to be liked.. He is a sneaky and his bantering is unwarranted

7over8 · May 15, 2009 1:33PM

there seems to be a few on the bay
the "seemingly" more prominent one being the raised cud? on the book and log......
it's in a more prominent position than the cud on the "C"

YaHa · May 15, 2009 1:41PM

<< there seems to be a few on the bay
the "seemingly" more prominent one being the raised cud? on the book and log......
it's in a more prominent position than the cud on the "C" >>

Well, I see your point.. There will be probably more.. As Joe stated *Twoside2acoin* Mr. Potter will have his hands full again.. He is the wizard of errors/cuds so my hat is off to him...

P.s. These new finds on the 2009 formative years lincolns would never hold water to Cam40's find on the DC quarter. Now that is a Gem of a Error..

Thanks for bringing up this new find 7or8..

7over8 · May 16, 2009 6:28AM

YaHa has made a discovery here........hold onto your hats if this one gets traction.......look to next weeks CW or NN

Seems like there are two different types........may be same variety / different die stage.....

But it appears as though the two varieties have different die markers........looks like different dies all together.

One of them has errors both central to the design (Book) / and on the Log (Filled Split) that may exhibit some doubling of the top edges of the book pages - has die markers that the other doesn't (Cud Type - YaHa posted pics two days ago)

The other (Cud Type on the C in CENTS) has what appears to be a cud on the left loop of the C in CENTS

My experience in searching for these through several rolls shows that both types appear only about 4-8 times per roll in aggregate (in some rolls zero were found) and out of those 6-8 coins, generally the Cud Type was found 65-70 percent of the time, while the other Book/Log Split type appeared about 30-35 percent of the time.

Those are my observations.

YaHa · May 16, 2009 8:14AM

<< YaHa has made a discovery here........hold onto your hats if this one gets traction.......look to next weeks CW or NN

Seems like there are two different types........may be same variety / different die stage.....

But it appears as though the two varieties have different die markers........looks like different dies all together.

One of them has errors both central to the design (Book) / and on the Log (Filled Split) that may exhibit some doubling of the top edges of the book pages - has die markers that the other doesn't (Cud Type - YaHa posted pics two days ago)

The other (Cud Type on the C in CENTS) has what appears to be a cud on the left loop of the C in CENTS

My experience in searching for these through several rolls shows that both types appear only about 4-8 times per roll in aggregate (in some rolls zero were found) and out of those 6-8 coins, generally the Cud Type was found 65-70 percent of the time, while the other Book/Log Split type appeared about 30-35 percent of the time.

Those are my observations. >>

Thanks for your expertise..

7over8 · May 16, 2009 8:30AM

Additional comment - -

I remember when the first Minnesota Double Die Reverse (DDR) Statehood Quarters appeared a few years ago,

They were found in greater quantities per roll (when found - % per roll sometimes was 1/2 of the 40 coins) and save for the first few, were not easily recognized without the aid of a glass or a microscope.

There were too many varieties. 60+. They died off fast.

As opposed to what Yaha has discovered here - possibly only two varieties, easily recognized, even without aid of a glass for at least the log filled error - and much less per roll - WHEN FOUND. There were several rolls I went through that were totally dry.

When found - in rolls 4-6 seems reasonable out of 50.

Definitely a keeper. This will get legs soon.

Whitby · May 18, 2009 1:57AM

<< there seems to be a few on the bay
the "seemingly" more prominent one being the raised cud? on the book and log......
it's in a more prominent position than the cud on the "C" >>

I was not able to see any on the bay this morning.

I did see BIN prices at 49 per coin

coppercoins · May 18, 2009 2:39AM

Die chips, if really anything at all, would be die errors. Die errors are errors that develop on the die after it is placed into use. It cannot be a 'variety' of any kind if it was not on the fresh, new die when it was hung on the press for use. And even at that, some clarification:

1. variety - an intended small change in the design during a year that was not necessarily intended to be noticed. Mintmark sizes, date sizes, stuff like that.

2. die variety - a mistake on the die (usually doubling) that was on the die at the time it was created, so that every coin minted with that die repeats the mistake. This includes repunched mintmarks, doubled dies, repunched dates, over dates, over mintmarks.

WithArrows · May 18, 2009 3:07AM

The obvious answer, of course, is: who cares?

Whitby · May 18, 2009 3:08AM

<< Die chips, if really anything at all, would be die errors. Die errors are errors that develop on the die after it is placed into use. It cannot be a 'variety' of any kind if it was not on the fresh, new die when it was hung on the press for use. And even at that, some clarification:

1. variety - an intended small change in the design during a year that was not necessarily intended to be noticed. Mintmark sizes, date sizes, stuff like that.

2. die variety - a mistake on the die (usually doubling) that was on the die at the time it was created, so that every coin minted with that die repeats the mistake. This includes repunched mintmarks, doubled dies, repunched dates, over dates, over mintmarks. >>

Thanks, I very much appreciate the info!

SO, is Yahas 2009 find an error or variety?

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