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SEGS
1Mike1
Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭✭✭
Anybody have an opinion on how well the grades from SEGS holds up compared to PCGS?
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
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Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>Does anybody not? >>
You got me there.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Quite lengthy, but very informative. If nothing else, read the first couple of pages and maybe the last 4 or 5.
1. same grade.
2. lower grade.
3. no grade/genuine.
Entirely
Guess-imate
Speculations
sorry ...best i could do ...i just got up
I have seen a few dealers that have mostly SEGS slabs. You have to be ready to talk them down significantly.
Ankur
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
I would expect more from SEGS since Bill Fivaz is on their board of consultants.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>... I think they are an up and coming respectable service! ... >>
I didn't see a sarcasm emoticon here, so I'm going to comment. They're not exactly up and coming. Larry Briggs formed SEGS in the mid 1990s. While his intentions were noble and his grading and attribution skills are on par with the best of them, not everything went as desired. The TPG market leaders were well-entrenched by the time SEGS started, and SEGS could not capture significant market share or acceptance with their then-tight standards. Nobody wanted a derogatory comment on a SEGS holder when they could get the same coin in a PCGS, NGC, or ANACS holder. Then Teletrade opted not to allow their coins, and I believe there was some sort of fisticuff involving Heritage. This is still several years before the proliferation of "third world" TPGs that would be used to con people on eBay, and into which eBay would later group SEGS. Like PCI coins, there are probably plenty of "early" SEGS coins that are accurately graded. Since they never evolved their holder or label (didn't have to, since it was and is the best holder out there, IMHO), it is difficult to tell early from late. This really doesn't much matter, now, since everyone wants the decent coins in PCGS or NGC plastic. From what it seems, SEGS is on life support courtesy of Larry's coin business. Incidentally, Larry will only sparingly slab his coins in SEGS holders, as he never wanted to make himself look like one of those hypergrading self-slabbers.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Also 2 other less expensive coins to same grade.
Those are my only experiences with crossing... and I cracked them out before submitting.
WS
since i crack all my coins out i pay no att'n to the grade on the slab,
K S
<< <i>Best holder.
Worst service. >>
Worse than NTC? Worse than
<< <i>
<< <i>Best holder.
Worst service. >>
Worse than NTC? Worse than
The "modern PCI" is out of business. DLRC bought their equipment and formed a new grading service (DGS) which appears to be doing a credible job.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Bought 1921 S VAM 1B6 in a SEGS attributed 61 holder for $85. Not only was this a ridiculous rip for me when i bought it, but i cracked it and sent it to PCGS... where it came back a 63. I sold it for $750. Im not going to stick my nose up at them ever again after that experience. I've even submitted several coins to them (the micro o morgans that are now deemed counterfeit) and they come back accurately graded.
By coincidence, my late wife had this when she was in her senior year of high school. She told me that she had to be home schooled, and would lay in bed in a fetal position for several hours a day. Fortunately, she was able to beat it.
Larry has not been so lucky, I understand.
Ray
<< <i>My experiences: 1924 $20 SEGS MS65- PCGS MS64, 1937 50c SEGS MS65- PCGS MS65, 1940-S 50c SEGS MS65- PCGS MS64, Numerous Buffs crossed or one grade lower. I think they deserve alot more credit than they get.......flame suit on. >>
Perfect example of what I stated earlier. They do get some stuff right (or even close to it relative to tier-one TPG standards). But market perception causes their good work to be seen by very few people since it is almost always cracked out and sent to a TPG which represents a "promotion."
As a result I think we have a pretty negatively skewed perception based on the fact that we mostly only see their mistakes and their overgrades. When they get it right, it doesn't remain in their holders for long. But their goofs often remain for us to see.
I'm not saying they're top tier, but these market forces tend to make them look a lot more pathetic than they are.
But who expects fairness on a competitor's message board?
Fairness?? I thought I was being quite fair and honest when I said I thought that SEGS was pretty much worthless based on a good sampling of coins I've seen in their holders over the years. I draw my opinion based on seeing numerous recolored coppers graded by them, whizzed coins, tooled coins, blatantly AT'd coins, etc........and this is in addition to their grading standards which appeared to be anywhere from 1-4 points below the top teir services.
I also thought that both Hallmark and the old PCI were both top notch services from coins I remember seeing in their holders, and would recommend them and buy coins in their holders without reservation when infrequently available.
Also, I wouldn't consider SEGS to be a competitor to PCGS.
In the beginning:
Sorry, no pic of my secret method of opening these dang holders but here's how it came out
And how it came back from slab-land:
I disagree with NGC on the net grade of this coin. This coin is UNC and lightly wiped. Not "scratched". But that's my ever so not humble opinion. And it happens to be a nice early half eagle.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i> I thought I was being quite fair and honest when I said I thought that SEGS was pretty much worthless based on a good sampling of coins I've seen in their holders over the years. I draw my opinion based on seeing numerous recolored coppers graded by them, whizzed coins, tooled coins, blatantly AT'd coins, etc........and this is in addition to their grading standards which appeared to be anywhere from 1-4 points below the top teir services.
>>
First Name: *
Last Name: *
Nickname: dragon
Province/State: Other
Gee, why wasn't I surprised?
<< <i>Hopefully folks are not confusing SEGS with SGS (Star Grading Service) as they are two completely different outfits.
I would expect more from SEGS since Bill Fivaz is on their board of consultants. >>
Very important point Lee.
Governments can print currency. Only the people can print faith in it — and they’re running low on ink.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
The AU part is obvious, but where's the scratch?
Awesome photos, by the way.
<< <i>I crossed a 66BN SEGS Lincoln to PCGS with a 2 point drop. >>
That could mean two things for either company.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>... I think they are an up and coming respectable service! ... >>
I didn't see a sarcasm emoticon here, so I'm going to comment. They're not exactly up and coming. Larry Briggs formed SEGS in the mid 1990s. While his intentions were noble and his grading and attribution skills are on par with the best of them, not everything went as desired. The TPG market leaders were well-entrenched by the time SEGS started, and SEGS could not capture significant market share or acceptance with their then-tight standards. Nobody wanted a derogatory comment on a SEGS holder when they could get the same coin in a PCGS, NGC, or ANACS holder. Then Teletrade opted not to allow their coins, and I believe there was some sort of fisticuff involving Heritage. This is still several years before the proliferation of "third world" TPGs that would be used to con people on eBay, and into which eBay would later group SEGS. Like PCI coins, there are probably plenty of "early" SEGS coins that are accurately graded. Since they never evolved their holder or label (didn't have to, since it was and is the best holder out there, IMHO), it is difficult to tell early from late. This really doesn't much matter, now, since everyone wants the decent coins in PCGS or NGC plastic. From what it seems, SEGS is on life support courtesy of Larry's coin business. Incidentally, Larry will only sparingly slab his coins in SEGS holders, as he never wanted to make himself look like one of those hypertrading self-slabbers. >>
In no uncertain terms, I like SEGS!! I did not know they have been around so long, my mistake. Some people on this forum don't know everything. I own two coins in segs holders and they have "IMO" been graded accurately.
<< <i>Tom:
The AU part is obvious, but where's the scratch?
Awesome photos, by the way. >>
Thanks Dennis. If you had the coin in hand under the loupe you would conclude that the coin is a lightly wiped UNC.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Last Name: *
Nickname: dragon
Province/State: Other
Gee, why wasn't I surprised? >>>
LOLOLOL, surprised at what? Yeah, I just popped in here yesterday to make those remarks about SEGS, LOL.
<< <i><<< First Name: *
Last Name: *
Nickname: dragon
Province/State: Other
Gee, why wasn't I surprised? >>>
LOLOLOL, surprised at what? Yeah, I just popped in here yesterday to make those remarks about SEGS, LOL. >>
NOT surprised...that you call SEGS "pretty much worthless," accuse them of slabbing "whizzed coins, tooled coins, blatantly AT'd coins, etc"
and that you have a blank profile.
<< <i><<< First Name: *
Last Name: *
Nickname: dragon
Province/State: Other
Gee, why wasn't I surprised? >>>
LOLOLOL, surprised at what? Yeah, I just popped in here yesterday to make those remarks about SEGS, LOL. >>
sometimes when people don't want to be identified by name or location....others will dismiss anything you say as worthless in a forum setting...(as if you have no rights to an opinion.)
razzle dazzle of who you are, or what you do for a living or where you do it, does not influence the weight of your opinion to me...nor should it to anyone else.
you're either right...or not. (sometimes opinions end up in a gray area.)
some...out of an allegiance to a friendship or some mis-guided need to defend someones "honor" will cast aspersions on your credibility in order to cast doubt on your opinion.
(i.e. "yo mama is so fat... she wears a VCR on her belt so she can look like she has a "beeper")
some will do that with such prejudice as to try to ruin any opinion you may have...ever!
every opinion-ator has a butthole (we all have em folks)...so listen to all the buttholes.
from there you'll learn to weed out the ones whose farting makes sense...and the ones who just want to make noise.
remember its not the length and loudness...its the accuracy that makes the difference.
farts ARE funny!...and for some its the only intelligent noise they can make.
maybe i'll get Barbara Streisand to give me an opinion on a couple of my coins....after all i do know her name...and i know where she lives!...heh!
<< <i>Some
Entirely
Guess-imate
Speculations
sorry ...best i could do ...i just got up
<< <i>
<< <i>Some
Entirely
Guess-imate
Speculations
sorry ...best i could do ...i just got up
i didn't say by who now did i!
I just won this 1854 Type 2 Gold Dollar in a SEGS slab marked AU50 scratch for $211.
The pictures are not huge, but I can't even see anything wrong with the coin from the pictures
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190306077841
<< <i>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190306077841 >>
No such item. Looks like someone reported the fact that you won a SEGS coin to eBay and they killed the auction posthumously.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
For those who stay away from this brand, all you do is eliminate a very small portion of the potential coin world from your view and eliminate haggling over real or perceived issues with the coins in their holders.
I would also add that having no information in you profile has nothing to do with who you are on these boards. Dragon has been a respected member, quite knowledgeable in many areas, for a long time here. Bashing him for keeping his privacy is a red herring. No one validates any of this information, so you might say no information means no lies. There is always more than one way to approach these things.