Ebay hypothetical question

coindudeonebay · May 12, 2009 12:41PM

Ok, maybe not so hypothetical, but a question nonetheless.

Ok, say a guy from here advertises his ebay auctions on the BST. So, you go and help a brother out and bid his auctions up to at least silver so that the guy doesn't lose out.

Most of the auctions were free shipping to begin with, but turns out that I win two auctions that actually have shipping charges. No problem, but I figure I'll ask about shipping and combining shipping and maybe even discount shipping. I figure if I would have won a good multiple of the the other coins then shipping would have been free so why not try since a lot of guys do free shipping to board members.

The guy says no, I need to charge shipping, which was still ok, because I'm getting these coins for right at silver price including shipping.

So, the guy does at least combine shipping, but when I get the invoice he adds a line of mandatory insurance. So, I tell the guy to not worry about insurance, I've never had a problem with losing items and if it did I would take the responsibility. He says no, this is mandatory self insurance (aka pocket money), so if the item gets lost he will reimburse and it's non negotiable. He says that it's clearly stated in his terms. Of course when I look at the listing the only thing stated about insurance is that it's that it's included. I tell him this and still says the insurance is mandatory. So, I go ahead and purchase against my better judgement.

I decide not to retaliate with a negative or a neutral. But I did leave a comment (positive) "As described. Charged a lot for "self insurance"". I guess I kinda embelished a bit because the self insurance wasn't a lot, probably around two bux. Still a lot for something that wasn't stated in the auction and something I really didn't want. Again I state that it was POSITIVE feedback, for the most part... I mean it sent his feedback number up and not down.

So, tell me what you would have done? Was I wrong?

garsmith · May 12, 2009 12:44PM

Don't know if your right or wrong, but if you want to bid up my AGE's that are on eBay right now feel free.

Oh by the way I have free S/H/I on all of the sets listed.

RedTiger · May 12, 2009 3:24PM

That's a lot time you spent writing and thinking about $2. I know, I know, its the principle...

Virtually everything about the hobby is small stuff in the big scheme of life.

Enjoy the hobby.

Bochiman · May 12, 2009 3:33PM

"Mandatory 'self' insurance"?
I wouldn't deal with that person.

It's one thing if insurance is mandatory, and stated, another if it is added, after the fact, and still another if it is stated as "self-insurance" after being declared mandatory but saying it was included.

1Mike1 · May 12, 2009 7:18PM

Sort of ironic that you brag about boosting his prices and then complain that he boosted your price with hidden costs.

soty27 · May 12, 2009 7:22PM

<< Sort of ironic that you brag about boosting his prices and then complain that he boosted your price with hidden costs.

>>

Love it

lasvegasteddy · May 12, 2009 7:38PM

there's no telling if your position was right or wrong as would mine be

i would of just bit my tongue...left positive without any derogatory words and moved on

you're still

in my book regardless and you did at least bump his $$$ for him

coindudeonebay · May 12, 2009 9:31PM

Heya Teddy. You know, after leaving positive feedback, the guy came back and complained that he didn't appreciate the feedback. All I did was tell the truth, and I told him that I had to talk myself out of a neutral / negative. I feel like I did the right thing, I left positive which didn't hurt his numbers or percentage, of course I hit him on the price of package via stars, but at the same time I wanted to warn other potential buyers of added costs that are not listed in the auction.

RBinTex · May 12, 2009 9:38PM

$2 in opportunity cost evaporated before you even finished typing the title to this thread.

Steve27 · May 12, 2009 9:40PM

"Of course when I look at the listing the only thing stated about insurance is that it's that it's included."

If it's stated that it's included, I would not have paid it.

" He says no, this is mandatory self insurance..."

Self-insurance is not permitted by ebay, so I would have reported him.

CarlWohlforth · May 13, 2009 12:44AM

If insurance was said to be included but you later found out it was an additional cost that is something to complain about. But like most have said don't sweat the small stuff.

I made a similar bid on a member's auction. It was for 1 item but the photo showed 3. I bid near the end of the auction and didn't read the listing well so bid enough for 3 items - naturally I won. To add insult to injury I paid around $4 for shipping and the item arrived in a flimsy envelope, not padded, with less than a buck postage on it. I left good feedback but will not bid on that person's items again because the photo gave me a different impression than the text.

notwilight · May 13, 2009 12:49AM

Whenever you bid you have to be ready to complete the terms of the auction. --Jerry the buyer

I would have waived the charges for a forum member. --Jerry the seller

As for self insurance, it sounds like his rates are less than the USPS so that was a good deal. There is no reason a self-insurer can't charge less then the USPS because their rates are outrageous--probably because they pay out too many scammers. I self insure all cheap packages but don't charge for it.

al410 · May 13, 2009 12:54AM

One of the reasons that Ebays feedback policy is a joke is that people do not want to leave the true feedback. one dollar or 5 dollars does not matter , if it is included then I won't pay it afterwards. I don't know about this particular case but I am a firm believer that delivery to the customer is the responsibility of the seller. A hot point I know.

AL
PS whethery you got a great deal on a auction has nothing to do with the sellers terms changing

ThePennyLady · May 13, 2009 1:04AM

Just curious, but don't any of you have a problem with the poster's "shill bidding" when he didn't even want the coins in the first place? Even though I know it goes on all the time, I find that practice not credible. But as to the point the poster is questioning, I too have a problem with a seller adding fees or terms after an auction closes that were not clearly stated in an auction and would challenge the seller on those. But if you got a good deal on the coin, I would weigh whether the fees were worth the time/effort to pursue it and either pay it or ask the seller to cancel the auction.

lathmach · May 13, 2009 1:14AM

Ok, say a guy from here advertises his ebay auctions on the BST. So, you go and help a brother out and bid his auctions up to at least silver so that the guy doesn't lose out.

I don't get it.
Did this member ask you to shill his auction? If not, why'd you do it?
Don't shill bid on Ebay auctions to "help out" any one.
Doing that is stupid as well as illegal.

Ray

mrpotatoheadd · May 13, 2009 1:19AM

The auction terms say:

Shipping and Handling - US $5.65

Insurance - Included in S&H

The seller was wrong to charge you extra for insurance.

coindudeonebay · May 13, 2009 2:07AM

<< I don't get it.
Did this member ask you to shill his auction? If not, why'd you do it?
Don't shill bid on Ebay auctions to "help out" any one.
Doing that is stupid as well as illegal.

Ray >>

For those of you who think I was "shill bidding", I was not. I was willing to pay for any and all items won, which I did. I believe that shill bidding would be considered driving auctions up to the other bidders maximum and if you win any of the items you won't pay for them. That's my belief on what a shill is, and that is not what I was doing.

So, if I would have won any or all the other auctions I would have gladly paid silver price for them. Walkers/Kennedys/Frankys for $5 at today's silver price was a decent deal especially with free shipping was not a bad deal.

So, I bid, intended to pay, and did pay. I was scolded by the buyer for leaving a negative tone on a positive feedback.

<< I did not appreciate the feedback you left. My listing was very specific, and there was no mention of combined shipping. Yet, I still combined shipping, and did NOT charge insurance twice. >>

As for the shipping, all the items fit comfortably into one free priority mail shipping box and did not weigh enough to worry about extra charges. The guy was kinda a pain to deal with, I didn't put that in there, but I did mention the extra jack he demanded for self insurance which I thought future buyers might want to know about. But then again, if a guy / gal has 100% feedback, do you really go and check the feedback? I know I usually don't.

airplanenut · May 13, 2009 2:14AM

My thoughts:

1- eBay doesn't allow you to collect for self insurance, unless you are using a licensed insurance agency (ie, you can keep an insurance fund in your bank account)
2- If it said "included," then that means included. No extras.
3- I wouldn't call this shilling. It may be that he wouldn't have bid otherwise because the coins weren't too interesting, but if you pay for it, it's not shilling. Shilling is bumping the price up with no intention to win (for example, if you do win, you just cancel the transaction and try to do better next time)

mrpotatoheadd · May 13, 2009 2:17AM

<< As for the shipping, all the items fit comfortably into one free priority mail shipping box and did not weigh enough to worry about extra charges. >>

The listings didn't mention any combined shipping discount, but you didn't ask to be sure and just assumed there would be? In order to avoid future difficulties, you might want to rethink this approach.

seatedcollector · May 13, 2009 2:28AM

the reason ebays feedback system is a joke is that the sellers sack is in a sling to begin with. all it takes is a few buyers who like to cause trouble, (jee thats tough to find) and the seller is forced to not give a sheet about his feedback,

coindudeonebay · May 13, 2009 3:03AM

<< The listings didn't mention any combined shipping discount, but you didn't ask to be sure and just assumed there would be? In order to avoid future difficulties, you might want to rethink this approach. >>

You are exactly correct and yes, I did assume that someone from this board or ATS would be easy to work with as I've had some very positive transactions here. In fact I would call this the only negative transaction I've ever had. The fact is, I probably bid on 30 items, maybe more, can't remember for sure. And, if I would have won all 30 he would have had to ship them for free since they were free shipping. If I would have won these 30 items, I would have for sure paid and these items would have weighed more than the items that I won. I of course brought that point up, and the fact that a lot of sellers give free shipping to board members, he declined, I agreed to pay and then he kicks in the added insurance. That's all it's about, nothing extra... and this thread for sure has been more interesting than the extra $2 I paid!!

mrpotatoheadd · May 13, 2009 3:15AM

<< I of course brought that point up, and the fact that a lot of sellers give free shipping to board members, he declined, I agreed to pay and then he kicks in the added insurance. >>

As I said before, he was definitely in the wrong to demand additional money for insurance. However, asking for (or hinting at) free shipping after the auction is over is not the way to go, either- you should get the terms settled before you bid.

coindudeonebay · May 13, 2009 3:46AM

<< However, asking for (or hinting at) free shipping after the auction is over is not the way to go, either- you should get the terms settled before you bid. >>

I agree with you here. I'm definitely not trying to seem like I was an angel here. I could have and should have cleared things up front. You know what they say about assuming right? ASS-U-ME!

mrpotatoheadd · May 13, 2009 3:58AM

I'm wondering if the fact that the guy sold the coins below melt (even before considering eBay/PayPal fees) and then had to deal with a request for free shipping on top of that had anything to do with the demand for an additional payment for insurance.

WinPitcher · May 13, 2009 8:16AM

Does the seller have a liscense to sell insurance? If not he is not allowed to
charge for it. He can include it in his shipping charges he just can't charge for it ala carte.

So the answer is NO he can't self insure.

Steve

Coll3ctor · May 13, 2009 8:30AM

I wouldn't have paid it.

Frankcoins · May 13, 2009 8:45AM

<< Does the seller have a liscense to sell insurance? If not he is not allowed to
charge for it. He can include it in his shipping charges he just can't charge for it ala carte.

So the answer is NO he can't self insure.

Steve >>

That's ebay's incorrect interpretation of the rules. The FTC allows any merchant to charge an insurance fee
and self insure. No license is required.

As long as the item is promptly refunded or replaced, it's perfectly legal.

WinPitcher · May 13, 2009 9:06AM

That may very well be, however, the sale took place on ebay and it was ebays rules I was referring too.

Steve

Frankcoins · May 13, 2009 9:14AM

<< That may very well be, however, the sale took place on ebay and it was ebays rules I was referring too.

Steve >>

Ebay's page on self insurance mentions that it violates "state law." They are confusing life, health and auto insurance (which states can regulate) with
interstate commerce, which states cannot.

mrpotatoheadd · May 13, 2009 9:25AM

<< Ebay's page on self insurance mentions that it violates "state law." They are confusing life, health and auto insurance (which states can regulate) with interstate commerce, which states cannot. >>

Lots of things don't violate any laws, but aren't allowed on eBay. Even if self insurance doesn't violate the law, eBay can prohibit the practice on their site, however silly or misguided their logic is for doing so.

WinPitcher · May 13, 2009 9:40AM

Again that very well may be true, but again, it is ebays rule and thus, again that is what I keep referring too.

Steve

mozeppa · May 13, 2009 10:03AM

ask anyone how i send them stuff.

in life....never sweat the small stuff.....and its all small stuff.

zeebob · May 13, 2009 10:11AM

No good deed goes unpunished.

coindudeonebay · May 13, 2009 12:11PM

<< Lots of things don't violate any laws, but aren't allowed on eBay. Even if self insurance doesn't violate the law, eBay can prohibit the practice on their site, however silly or misguided their logic is for doing so. >>

You know, I think Mr. Potato Head has had his scowly face on all day today!!

notwilight · May 13, 2009 12:51PM

<< Does the seller have a liscense to sell insurance? If not he is not allowed to
charge for it. He can include it in his shipping charges he just can't charge for it ala carte.

So the answer is NO he can't self insure.

Steve >>

Unless you have a reference I'd say you made that up 'cause it sounds right to you. Are you trying to cite a local, state, or federal law? --Jerry

Ebay hypothetical question

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