An apology to the forum members...

RareCoinRecords · May 11, 2009 2:11PM

I 'had' permission to use the Sunnywood 1881-S on a clock a 'while' ago. I failed to properly attribute D.K.'s image on a recent coffee mug---and no, I did not have permission to use that beautiful Gobrecht Trade dollar on a t-shirt. I did, however, immediately remove that auction from eBay before any sales were recorded...and it remains unavailable to the public.

I made a mistake. I want to make for the record, an apology to the owner of the Gobrect Trade Dollar image and to the President of PCGS, personally.

I really hope this can be something that can be forgiven without a lawyer. I will never use an image of anyone's without permission ever again.

I'm sorry and thank you to the PCGS webmaster for allowing me a username for this forum so I could make my apology public.

Mike

ChrisRx · May 11, 2009 2:17PM

Takes a good man to admit a mistake.

robec · May 11, 2009 2:22PM

Only wish more eBay sellers had this class.

DUIGUY · May 11, 2009 2:25PM

Anyone willing to take the "High Road", is A OK in my book!

ArizonaJack · May 11, 2009 2:26PM

Gemini · May 11, 2009 2:27PM

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

blu62vette · May 11, 2009 2:29PM

A nice sincere and well explained apology, well done.

illini420 · May 11, 2009 2:32PM

ChrisRx · May 11, 2009 2:42PM

Well since your private messages

are not turned on I will just say it here.

I think its great what you do and I am sure that the owners of those coins didn't mind too much.
I think you are creative and if it promotes the hobby then I am all for it. I hope you can straighten it all out with the owners of the coins
and resume what you were doing. I have the feeling that you had the best intentions and I am sure most everyone else thought the same.

I say keep on chooglin' (my favorite CCR song by the way

)

Bochiman · May 11, 2009 2:52PM

It's all good...sometimes, people get their panties in a bind and get quite aggravated when the image of the love(s) of their life (the coins) are used without their consent.
I think people should focus on what is really needing focused, but, I ain't their momma, so I have no say in it.

Peace and love brother, peace and love

crazyhounddog · May 11, 2009 3:26PM

Yo, You can use any of my pictures ya want. Use em all I don't care ,why should I or anyone else? A coin on a tee shirt is good for the hobby in my book. What's the stinken problem?

mumu · May 11, 2009 4:04PM

Isn't legal tender currency property of the US governement even in the hands of the people? Would it not in this case belong in the private domain? Or is the question a matter of the photograph itself? In which case wouldnt there have to be a rights disclosure associated with the image. I only ask for clarification because I have once in awhile considered making a website with my coins on it, and in the case where the owenrs i bought them from had outstanding pictures, I planned on using those. But I guess id have to ask permission of each, even in ownership of the coin if the image itself is what is in question.

jhdfla · May 11, 2009 4:04PM

garsmith · May 11, 2009 4:10PM

to the boards, stick around we can use people that have the testicular fortitude to step up and admit their mistakes

telephoto1 · May 11, 2009 4:36PM

<< Yo, You can use any of my pictures ya want. Use em all I don't care ,why should I or anyone else? A coin on a tee shirt is good for the hobby in my book. What's the stinken problem? >>

The "stinkin problem" is that images are copyrighted for a reason.

OP, I can't believe how lucky you are that evidently no one wants to pursue this. If it had been a pro photographer whose images you stole and used for profit, you'd need that lawyer. I make my living as a coin dealer but (as some might glean from my ID) I'm also into photography...I consider myself an advanced amateur at best but have had a couple images published in years past- and I have a small archive of my own personal copyrighted images (mostly non-numismatic outdoor stuff). If someone used my images in this manner to sell merchandise for profit without my permission I'd be less than thrilled to be sure.

dragon · May 11, 2009 4:53PM

<< Yo, You can use any of my pictures ya want. Use em all I don't care ,why should I or anyone else? A coin on a tee shirt is good for the hobby in my book. What's the stinken problem? >>

Well said, my sentiments exactly!

frnklnlvr · May 11, 2009 4:58PM

<< whose images you stole and used for profit >>

I think he said that he did not sell anything so he didn't make any profit.

pennyannie · May 11, 2009 6:15PM

I would be thrilled that anyone thought a coin of mine was worthy of a t-shirt, mug or anything like. I could care less if that person made a profit also.

mumu · May 11, 2009 7:01PM

You can use any of my coins on any material you want. Make my coin famous and ill get more if i ever sell it. Im all for it. Heck Id buy a few of the shirts. "Buy my 1000$ coin for $2000 because its famous and get a free t-shirt"

darktone · May 11, 2009 7:30PM

Mike, can you make me a T-shirt with a picture of my coin?

holeinone1972 · May 11, 2009 7:41PM

Yep I guess the real question is can you make us clocks with our own coins on them if we provide the picture.

Rob

mumu · May 11, 2009 7:44PM

This is a very clever marketing campaign.

greghansen · May 11, 2009 8:19PM

I 'had' permission to use the Sunnywood 1881-S on a clock a 'while' ago.

I bought one of those clocks for my hunting lodge a couple years back.

I would have bought one of the Gobrecht T-shirts if they hadn't been pulled. IMO its a 'life lesson' learned. I don't blame the owners of the property for their initial reaction. I'm encouraged by the public contrition of the OP. Hopefully terms can be worked out to allow the non-exclusive use of the images.

In the long run, it isn't going to hurt TD for hundreds of people to be wearing a T-shirt with his coin image on it. Seems like if & when it's ever marketed that kinds of adds to the 'legend' so to speak. Plus...just my guess...but I don't think he's counting on any image royalty checks to keep his bank account in the black.

Anyway, the submission to a public flogging by the OP is a step in the right direction.

YaHa · May 11, 2009 10:16PM

I would sue your Bleep.. Then Take to the front door of the court house and settle out of court for a nice token of forgiveness. Pm Me I have some law background to help you out..

P.S. I don't know what really happened, but, I do think the parties involved will let things go.. It's a simple mistake you made.. Just be careful in the future. I would call or email PCGS and the owner and give them a sincere "I F-ed Up".

"(Don't forget the renew your Platinum Collectors Club membership).

rgCoinGuy · May 11, 2009 10:28PM

MORGANHUNTER2 · May 11, 2009 10:57PM

Mike

The prices on the Polo's and the T-shirts are to high- make it a reasonable price and this place will come like a hoard of Bees to buy what you have.

Damn TDN- I would have gotten a T-shirt with that sweet TD on it.

hopefully it will be back shortly...

wikyva · May 11, 2009 11:15PM

Very classy apology!

TwoSides2aCoin · May 11, 2009 11:20PM

Fifty lashes for you.

...make them Madonna's or Britney Spears' or even Brooke Shields'.
Sell them on ebay .

signed

~the 3 Nunjas~

Bend over and take it right HERE

InternetJunky · May 12, 2009 12:03AM

telephoto1 · May 12, 2009 12:12AM

<< This is a very clever marketing campaign. >>

Funny you say that... I was rereading the thread and saying to myself, "either he was dumb to do this, or dumb like a fox..." Look at all the free advertising he's getting...

crazyhounddog · May 12, 2009 2:07AM

<< 

<< Yo, You can use any of my pictures ya want. Use em all I don't care ,why should I or anyone else? A coin on a tee shirt is good for the hobby in my book. What's the stinken problem? >>

The "stinkin problem" is that images are copyrighted for a reason.

OP, I can't believe how lucky you are that evidently no one wants to pursue this. If it had been a pro photographer whose images you stole and used for profit, you'd need that lawyer. I make my living as a coin dealer but (as some might glean from my ID) I'm also into photography...I consider myself an advanced amateur at best but have had a couple images published in years past- and I have a small archive of my own personal copyrighted images (mostly non-numismatic outdoor stuff). If someone used my images in this manner to sell merchandise for profit without my permission I'd be less than thrilled to be sure. >>

Poor little guy, just mad at the world. That's sad

Stew · May 12, 2009 2:14AM

Bravo,
Good to see someone take responsibility for their actions admit they were wrong and apologize.
We are the living examples for the next generation, They will do as we do not as we say

mrpotatoheadd · May 12, 2009 2:27AM

<< Yo, You can use any of my pictures ya want. Use em all I don't care ,why should I or anyone else? A coin on a tee shirt is good for the hobby in my book. What's the stinken problem? >>

There's nothing at all wrong with Person A taking the position that they don't mind someone using A's images to sell stuff. The "stinken problem" arises when Person A somehow thinks that Presons B, C and D shouldn't mind either, because A doesn't mind.

A good, all-purpose general rule is that if something's not your property, leave it alone or get permission from the owner before you use it.

edited- spelling.

crazyhounddog · May 12, 2009 3:04AM

<< 

<< Yo, You can use any of my pictures ya want. Use em all I don't care ,why should I or anyone else? A coin on a tee shirt is good for the hobby in my book. What's the stinken problem? >>

There's nothing at all wrong with Person A taking the position that they don't mind someone using A's images to sell stuff. The "stinken problem" arises when Person A somehow thinks that Presons B, C and D shouldn't mind either, because A doesn't mind.

A good, all-purpose general rule is that if something's not your property, leave it alone or get permission from the owner before you use it.

edited- spelling. >>

Point well taken...

lope208 · May 12, 2009 3:08AM

Nice apology, Mike. With all the ebay police on this forum, Mike was never in danger of
making a profit off of these items.

Should he have asked permission first? Sure. Did he
pull everything as soon as it was mentioned? Yes.

Look people, I understand the copyright thing, but we live in a different world with the
Internet. People post things all over the place and many young people just think "it's
free for the taking". I'm not saying this happened here, or that it's right. But it happens.

Mike did the right thing when asked. The real problem in today's society IMO is those
who'd rather sue this guy just because they can. Remember when a phone call and a
conversation could clear up something like this? Too many people have their first contact
with somebody through a summons.

Just my ramblings.

mrpotatoheadd · May 12, 2009 3:24AM

<< Look people, I understand the copyright thing, but we live in a different world with the
Internet. People post things all over the place and many young people just think "it's
free for the taking". >>

So we shouldn't disabuse them of that notion? And if you're going to let this (taking copyrighted stuff) slide, where do you plan on drawing the line regarding what they can't take?

<< The real problem in today's society IMO is those
who'd rather sue this guy just because they can. >>

I'd suggest a bigger problem is people thinking it's okay to do whatever they want to, just because.

<< Too many people have their first contact
with somebody through a summons. >>

Sounds like an excellent reason to leave other peoples' stuff alone unless you have their permission, doesn't it?

Tonelover · May 12, 2009 3:53AM

My company recently settled on a $800 fine at the reqest of a copyright owner of a picture I pulled off of the internet and put in our website as a little side graphic. The owner of the image has tens of thousands of copywritten images and contracts with a tech company with internet monitoring software that constantly searches for their images being used without permission. The software can tell if the image has been resized, altered and all sorts of stuff. And they go after violators like a pit bull, it is apparently a large revenue source for them. We got off cheap for $800, a sincere apology and promise not to do it again was not enough to smooth things over. They have other suits out there against violators for as much as $25,000. It keeps them very busy.

TrainNut · May 12, 2009 3:59AM

<< Takes a good man to admit a mistake. >>

pharmer · May 12, 2009 5:42AM

Please keep us posted on whether he comes after you with a lawyer or drops it.

kaz · May 12, 2009 6:58AM

Thumbs up for making a public apology!

zeebob · May 12, 2009 6:59AM

<<

to the boards, stick around we can use people that have the testicular fortitude to step up and admit their mistakes >>

Bcsican · May 12, 2009 7:19AM

<< Only wish more eBay sellers had this class. >>

telephoto1 · May 12, 2009 8:06AM

It's one thing to tell someone it's OK to put your coin, that you own, and you have imaged, onto a t-shirt or something similar. It's quite different when someone merely assumes it's OK and just copies whatever images they like with the intent to derive (or attempt to derive) income therefrom.

That said, I'm sure this case involves a stand-up guy who isn't evil and I'm also sure he's not making a million dollars doing this, but that doesn't matter. In the area of images and photography you have to remember that this is how some people make a living... and the internet isn't making things easier as far as image piracy. To say nothing of music and video piracy. (Anyone remember Napster?) There are many stock photo agencies (I've submitted to a couple of them) whose entire business is supplying images to electronic and print media sources...and they have legal departments to combat things like this.
Bottom Line...just because you see something posted somewhere, never assume it is a public domain item. ASK. Most people will be ok with it but realize that some need to protect their property. That's all I'm saying.

RareCoinRecords · May 12, 2009 11:54AM

You bet! Please send me a note with your coin image to me to: coinclocks@hotmail.com and is $25. including shipping to the U.S. fair? I'll make $3.00. Let me know! I would be honored to make you a shirt with your coin! Mike

lkenefic · May 12, 2009 12:07PM

TwoSides2aCoin · May 12, 2009 12:15PM

<< Please keep us posted on whether he comes after you with a lawyer or drops it. >>

What's up Doc ?

Nighttrain · May 15, 2009 5:15PM

well put apology, I hope everything works out ok

DieClash · May 15, 2009 5:33PM

<< Anyone willing to take the "High Road", is A OK in my book!

>>

And

to the boards.

I have no idea about the legality of of using someone elses images for promoting ones own eBay sales, or any other use of said image. But I believe that people who post images on the internet are putting their property in the public domain and unless said posted images come with a usage disclaimer, then they are fair game for anyone to use. The internet is a new world and old adages don't necessarily apply here globally, IMO. But then I'm no lawyer

An apology to the forum members...

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