Interesting auction. What do you think

JBills · May 5, 2009 2:49AM

Hello all. New around here. Thought I'd use the collective brainpower of the board to figure this out.
Ebay auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=330327464723

It looks like a nice group of cards from a seller with good feedback, but what's the chances on that Mantle? That's the key to the group. No way it's worth his asking price for the rest of the cards if it's a fakeroo.

Also, is the Mays commonly faked too?

WinPitcher · May 5, 2009 2:52AM

Why isn't the 52 Mantle slabbed?

If legit it appears to be at least a 7.

Steve

divecchia · May 5, 2009 3:02AM

Welcome to the boards.

Auction

Donato

divecchia · May 5, 2009 3:10AM

<< Why isn't the 52 Mantle slabbed?

If legit it appears to be at least a 7.

Steve >>

I agree with Steve, here. If these cards are legit why are they not slabbed. There is a lot of money that is going to be left on the table.

Donato

Dboneesq · May 5, 2009 3:12AM

When someone states "auction is being sold as is without guarantees or return options" on an auction that begins at $10,000.00 and the only way it's worth that much is if the Mantle is real and not tampered with, I would stay away.

I understand the sellers point of view ... not wanting anyone to switch cards and say it was a fake ... but if you are selling this group of cards and you truly believe them to be legit and not trimmed ... you really only have one choice ... and that is to get the higher priced items graded and then sell them.

JBills · May 5, 2009 3:13AM

of course, ALL cards were not slabbed at some point and i don't think it's true that ALL 52 mantles have been. this goes into the old "there are no black swans" argument, i.e., bad logic.

are there any expert fake spotters? maybe something that is commonly seen or some obvious sign here?

NickM · May 5, 2009 3:33AM

Even if the Mantle is not a fake, it might be altered.

Nick

PoppaJ · May 5, 2009 3:37AM

Hi JBills,

Welcome to the Boards!

I'd stay far away from this auction. Too many questionable selling tactics and red flags.

Read These!

That Mantle looks like a reprint to me, and even if it's real, why wouldn't the seller highlight the auction around that specific card?

There are legit 52 Mantles out there that haven't been slabbed yet, but anyone that owns one and decides to sell it on eBay, certainly would be smart enough to do some prior research on eBay (past/present sales) just to get an idea of the card's value and the best way to sell it.

The seller's been around eBay since 1999! Whether he's been selling or just buying, believe me, he knows what's going on.

JMHO,
PoppaJ

.

JBills · May 5, 2009 3:41AM

yeah. that all makes sense! harumph.

mtcards · May 5, 2009 3:45AM

I think the odds are 99.9% that at least some of the cards are fake/altered. The seller has sold many high grade quality cards in the past, so I could be wrong, but honestly, if you have sold high dollar items from the sportscard genre, you would know about grading and you would know how much money there is to be made if the cards were real. Too many red flags here to take a chance for 10k

WinPitcher · May 5, 2009 3:58AM

JBills is it your auction?

Steve

onebamafan · May 5, 2009 4:06AM

No way.........................There are more red flags there than an Alabama-Nebraska football game!

theczar · May 5, 2009 4:09AM

i am still wondering what the black swan argument is. is it related to the black panthers?

BunchOBull · May 5, 2009 4:12AM

If it's a fake, it's a good one...even though it seems too clean.

The bottom left corner is suspect, looks spooned out.

JBills · May 5, 2009 4:15AM

steve - no. not me. i always am looking at the 50s lots. saw this last night.

JBills · May 5, 2009 4:18AM

black swan argument very famous in philosophy. people used to say that there were no black swans. problem, of course, is that you can't prove something DOESN'T exist. All it takes is one black swan (which they eventually found) to disprove the theory.

in other words, it's not philosophically solid to claim something doesn't exist because it hasn't been seen, even if that thing seems impossible

BunchOBull · May 5, 2009 4:25AM

I should also add, if it is a fake, it was produced by creating a color copy of a real '52 Mantle and printing it on modern card stock.

The good news is, it "seems" to have all of the signs of a first run '52...thought I can't see if the bottom left corner of the black border is missing a pixel or not.

A great thing for the seller to do would be to take a picture of the card with a flashlight behind the card stock. The real deal will block virtually all of the light...though, some modern card stocks can do the same.

If you are interested in throwing a bid out JBills, ask the seller if the black borders and writing are all solid in nature, no pixelation. Both the solid black and solid yellow areas should be pixel-free.

edited to add:

Let's say this card is real...it is almost certainly altered. My guess is that the seller is throwing it out there with a "moderate" starting price for a card that is in the apparent grade this card would bring. Knowing the card will only grade authentic, $10k is much more than this card would bring if it were slabbed.

JBills · May 5, 2009 4:27AM

of course, if he's a scammer, he'll just say YES, of course. blah blah.

JBills · May 5, 2009 4:40AM

i wrote him an email asking for photo with light behind and also a high rez scan. guessing there will be an excuse as to why not.

WinPitcher · May 5, 2009 4:42AM

I'd ask him why he does not have it in a PSA or SGC slab.

Steve

JBills · May 5, 2009 4:49AM

steve - did ask him that. he wrote this:

1) Since I bought these as a lot, I want to sell all at once
2) And main reason, my grandfather left me a bunch of old packs. About a year and a half ago I opened 6 1957 topps baseball packs and sent in the 15 best cards to PSA. Well, I did get two 9's back...however they sent back 4 of those cards as altered/trimmed!!
My grandad was the original owner of these packs and they've never left my sight until I opened them.
Needless to say I was done with grading services

sounds like B.S., but we're always quick to call other people's logic B.S.

WinPitcher · May 5, 2009 5:23AM

That very well could have happened, however, a 52 Mantle needs to be graded if sold on ebay.

Why would anyone leave thousands on the table?

I too have submitted cards that I knew were not trimmed and they came back EOT.

I simply re subbed them.

Whatever the case may be the guy will not sell that lot like presented.

Steve

WinPitcher · May 5, 2009 5:24AM

Because of the amount of cards included, this auction is being sold as is without guarantees or return options.

That tells me all I need to know.

Steve

WinPitcher · May 5, 2009 5:27AM

BTW welcome to the boards JB

Steve

proofer2 · May 5, 2009 5:34AM

I'm not sure about the cards, but I can tell you I bought some forged packs from this seller about a year ago...

Barfvader · May 5, 2009 5:41AM

JBills · May 5, 2009 5:49AM

off topic: look at the neck on that kid. sheesh. strong like bull

BunchOBull · May 5, 2009 5:53AM

Smart like tractor?

NickM · May 5, 2009 6:01AM

The lower left corner on the Mantle looks odd.

Nick

Dboneesq · May 5, 2009 6:12AM

<< The lower left corner on the Mantle looks odd.

Nick >>

CREASED and someone pressed it down.

Mintacular · May 5, 2009 6:16AM

Welcome--this is not worth the risk. Spend your 10K on safer bets.

For future reference, many of the folks on this board are also collectors/buyers on eBay so if you find a great steal (which this one is NOT) you might bring it to their attention and find yourself in a bidding war, etc. Just a word to the wise...

For example, imagine this post "Hey guys found this PSA 8 Mantle RC under the the Electronics and DVDs category!" I'm the winning bidder right now at a paltry $5--can't wait to show you the scans when I win!"--expect everybody on this board (BILL included) to find that card and place a bid.

On another note, believe it or not there are many old-time collectors that don't "slab" cards or have any clue what SMR value is, etc. so just b/c it isn't slabbed doesn't necessarily mean it's a fake...

PoppaJ · May 5, 2009 6:27AM

<< Welcome--this is not worth the risk. Spend your 10K on safer bets.

For future reference, many of the folks on this board are also collectors/buyers on eBay so if you find a great steal (which this one is NOT) you might bring it to their attention and find yourself in a bidding war, etc. Just a word to the wise...

For example, imagine this post "Hey guys found this PSA 8 Mantle RC under the the Electronics and DVDs category!" I'm the winning bidder right now at a paltry $5--can't wait to show you the scans when I win!"--expect everybody on this board (BILL included) to find that card and place a bid.

On another note, believe it or not there are many old-time collectors that don't "slab" cards or have any clue what SMR value is, etc. so just b/c it isn't slabbed doesn't necessarily mean it's a fake... >>

////////////////////////////////

Mintacular,

Seriously, put the glass down and get some help! Life's too short!

PoppaJ

Mintacular · May 5, 2009 6:42AM

What are you talking about? It's not 5:00 just yet. Anyway, are you trying to tell me you wouldn't place a bid if somebody on this board brought to your attention a Mantle located in the DVD category???

Barfvader · May 5, 2009 6:43AM

Mintacular

This was a nice steal on your part. 1969 Mickey Mantle Yankees #500 $10 Oh wait, seller didn't send it. Well that's a shame.

Lot of 91 1957 Topps Baseball Cards $5.99 Seems like a really good price but yet you left the seller a neutral OK, kind of a sarcastic attitude?

Mintacular · May 5, 2009 6:56AM

Would you buy a '69 Mantle for $10 (answer: yes). Would you leave a neutral if a seller sent you a HATEFUL message (answer: yes). Stop digging through my feedback you are not going to find anything....

gumbyfan · May 5, 2009 7:00AM

<< Stop digging through my feedback you are not going to find anything.... >>

...especially if we don't look.

HAMMERFAN44 · May 5, 2009 7:01AM

I live near the seller, sent a message to him/her asking to see the collection in person...we'll see!

Mintacular · May 5, 2009 7:07AM

Don't bother. Have communicated/set up a payment plan for this lot. Thanks, Pat

JBills · May 5, 2009 7:13AM

in the words of Star Wars Red Leader: "Stay on Target!"

Barfvader · May 5, 2009 7:13AM

<< Would you buy a '69 Mantle for $10 (answer: yes). >>

Well you DIDN'T buy it for $10 did you? I'm guessing that the seller made a mistake (obviously) and refused to sell it (which they can).

<< Would you leave a neutral if a seller sent you a HATEFUL message (answer: yes). >>

Proof or it didn't happen.

<< Stop digging through my feedback you are not going to find anything.... >>

Make me!

JBills · May 5, 2009 7:35AM

he just wrote me:

> I did the flashlight test and not a speck of light comes through the mantle
> or mays
> I also looked at both cards through a 10x loop and compared to a common 1952
> topps card.
> They all look exactly the same to me as far as the printing, black lines you
> spoke of, etc.

gemmintrarities · May 5, 2009 7:39AM

<< steve - did ask him that. he wrote this:

1) Since I bought these as a lot, I want to sell all at once
2) And main reason, my grandfather left me a bunch of old packs. About a year and a half ago I opened 6 1957 topps baseball packs and sent in the 15 best cards to PSA. Well, I did get two 9's back...however they sent back 4 of those cards as altered/trimmed!!
My grandad was the original owner of these packs and they've never left my sight until I opened them.
Needless to say I was done with grading services

sounds like B.S., but we're always quick to call other people's logic B.S. >>

Looks like he is creating an out for when the cards come back altered/trimmed, if anyone tries to grade them. The deceitfulness of this seller is transparent.

I wouldn't trust anything coming out of NC. Isn't one of the biggest scam artists in the hobby from there?

HAMMERFAN44 · May 5, 2009 7:43AM

He just replied to my request to look at the cards in person, low-and-behold he responds with the following:

Hey Bradley
Sure that would be fine
I'm out of town now and should be back before this ends
Let me get back with you and we can discuss a meet
Thanks
Michael
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

jmoran19 · May 5, 2009 7:47AM

This dude is a known pack resealer so if it smells like a rat....

Mintacular · May 5, 2009 7:48AM

Hammerfan--don't waste your time any further, buddy. I have already set up payment. I know this guy from a card show. Told him you guys were a bunch of online scammers and might try to bad mouth me.

He likes my feedback score and all the stories I told him about loving Mickey Mantle. And I got the lot for only a fraction of the price!

gemmintrarities · May 5, 2009 7:55AM

<< Hammerfan--don't waste your time any further, buddy. I have already set up payment. I know this guy from a card show. Told him you guys were a bunch of online scammers and might try to bad mouth me.

He likes my feedback score and all the stories I told him about loving Mickey Mantle. And I got the lot for only a fraction of the price! >>

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

JBills · May 5, 2009 7:55AM

okay, he's TOTALLY full of sh** then, because he tells me he went home and shone a light through the cards, etc. and then tells someone else he's out of town.

Mintacular · May 5, 2009 7:58AM

Let me step in here real quick. To "Hammer" and "JBills" I was joking about the payment stuff and having this lot wrapped up. Was trying to fire up some old-timers on this board. Ignore my comments completely. All that said, this whole lot sounds "to good to be true."...

JBills · May 5, 2009 8:00AM

no no. i was talking about hammerfan's post that he contacted him and asked to see in person, etc.

Allen · May 5, 2009 8:00AM

Total scam. I am thinking this guy may have bought a Mantle with his funds from fake packs and pictured it in this lot only to pull a bait and switch. I think the chances of the high bidder getting an authentic Mantle are 0%.

123Slider · May 5, 2009 8:00AM

<< Let me step in here real quick. To "Hammer" and "JBills" I was joking about the payment stuff and having this lot wrapped up. Was trying to fire up some old-timers on this board. Ignore my comments completely. All that said, this whole lot sounds "to good to be true."... >>

That trying to fire up the old-timers trick will get you love in any setting, especially message boards. Go on now, shooooo!

Interesting auction. What do you think

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