Should Trueview service be free and automatic for the greater good?

commoncents123 · May 2, 2009 3:03PM

I realize this may be a logistical challenge, but for the greater good, should Trueview be free and automatic for every coin submitted? In my opinion, this would be well worth the extra security, plus the obvious additional benefits. I believe this would be an excellent long-term move by the host company.

ChrisRx · May 2, 2009 3:07PM

The answer is DUH, YES!

It helps sellers and buyers. Would help by adding confidence and security. Better eBay pictures.
The benefits are many and pcgs could afford to have a big enough team devoted to taking pictures.
Would be hard for the counterfeiters to reproduce an EXACT copy.

KlectorKid · May 2, 2009 3:07PM

No, the NGC scans are far from Trueview quality so they are significantly cheaper to produce. PCGS should take quick scans that allow identification automatically and continue their payed photography service.

ChrisRx · May 2, 2009 3:15PM

<< No, the NGC scans are far from Trueview quality so they are significantly cheaper to produce. PCGS should take quick scans that allow identification automatically and continue their payed photography service. >>

I would be ok with this (at least it is something) if the trueview service is too time consuming.

morgandollar1878 · May 2, 2009 3:19PM

By all means yes. With all the fake holders that are floating around it should be required for PCGS to do so.

notwilight · May 2, 2009 3:26PM

Nice dream. The photo that NGC is talking about is automated and much lower quality than trueview. Trueviews are top quality photographs done raw by a professional photographer. Here is a mass produced picture that I took in a heck of a hurry that is probably about the quality you would get in a cert verification photo. agreed?

commoncents123 · May 2, 2009 3:27PM

<< No, the NGC scans are far from Trueview quality so they are significantly cheaper to produce. PCGS should take quick scans that allow identification automatically and continue their payed photography service. >>

I could be dead wrong, but I don't get how making a high quality photo versus a "cheap scan" is any more expensive?

On the other hand, maybe PCGS could at least do "cheap scans" with a paid Trueview service. But I still think free Trueview would be a wonderful move! Not because I want to be cheap and not pay for it, but because I'd like to see most excellent photos for every coin out there.

Bochiman · May 2, 2009 3:29PM

For the "greater good", I would like premium, free, health care for myself and my family. I would like job security as well as a guaranteed nice house/neighborhood/school for my child.

For the "greater good", I would like a car that doesn't break down and lawn care and house cleaning services.

A lot of things can be under "greater good" but there is a cost to do it by the companies that do them.....if they can't make a certain profit, or go into loss status because of it, then it shouldn't be done by them....greater good or not. Someone has to pay for things to happen.

That said, of course I would like my coins to have free truview photos but I am realistic enough not to expect it and, if it did occur, I would worry about the length of time it would take for grades/photos to be completed....how many MONTHS do you think it would add to submissions?

notwilight · May 2, 2009 3:29PM

<< 

<< No, the NGC scans are far from Trueview quality so they are significantly cheaper to produce. PCGS should take quick scans that allow identification automatically and continue their payed photography service. >>

I could be dead wrong, but I don't get how making a high quality photo versus a "cheap scan" is any more expensive? >>

You don't take coin photos? It ain't quick OR easy to get good ones. --Jerry

commoncents123 · May 2, 2009 3:31PM

It would seem that PCGS could put together a new team to do it, though...yes there would be more salary to pay, but think of the business they'd steal? Plus, there would never be another "is this a fake slab" thread.

Wolf359 · May 2, 2009 3:32PM

Yeah, sure. I can name dozens of companies that started giving services for free after begging threads appeared.

commoncents123 · May 2, 2009 3:33PM

<< Yeah, sure. I can name dozens of companies that started giving services for free after begging threads appeared.

>>

I'm not begging for my sake, I'm just saying in my opinion it would be a fantastic long term move. Plus think of all the re-grades that would be sent as a result. D'oh!

ChrisRx · May 2, 2009 3:35PM

One could also say PCGS gets a boost of $ due to more collector confidence with all this counterfeiting going on.

commoncents123 · May 2, 2009 3:35PM

<< One could also say PCGS gets a boost of $ due to more collector confidence with all this counterfeiting going on. >>

Yep! Think about the tidal wave of goodwill and warm fuzzy feelings that would follow. Again this isn't about getting something free, it's about what I said it's about

notwilight · May 2, 2009 3:38PM

<< It would seem that PCGS could put together a new team to do it, though...yes there would be more salary to pay, but think of the business they'd steal? Plus, there would never be another "is this a fake slab" thread. >>

At the risk of repeating myself AGAIN, I'll point out that you're ignoring the millions of coins already in slabs. Should we just avoid any coins slabbed before June 1, 2009 when the new program starts? If all these coins went down in value by 10% how many billions of $ would that be? --Jerry

commoncents123 · May 2, 2009 3:40PM

<< At the risk of repeating myself AGAIN, I'll point out that you're ignoring the millions of coins already in slabs. Should we just avoid any coins slabbed before June 1, 2009 when the new program starts? If all these coins went down in value by 10% how many billions of $ would that be? --Jerry >>

I'm not so sure that'd happen

Doogy · May 2, 2009 3:44PM

<< 

<< At the risk of repeating myself AGAIN, I'll point out that you're ignoring the millions of coins already in slabs. Should we just avoid any coins slabbed before June 1, 2009 when the new program starts? If all these coins went down in value by 10% how many billions of $ would that be? --Jerry >>

I'm not so sure that'd happen >>

of course it wouldn't, as people would wise up and send their coins back to PCGS for re-holdering. As i mentioned in a previous thread, i've sent all of my four and five figure coins back to NGC for the $5 re-holdering, so they can scan the coins for the cert. database. The remaining less valuable coins will be re-holdered/scanned in the next 6 months. how hard is that?

notwilight · May 2, 2009 3:45PM

<< 

<< At the risk of repeating myself AGAIN, I'll point out that you're ignoring the millions of coins already in slabs. Should we just avoid any coins slabbed before June 1, 2009 when the new program starts? If all these coins went down in value by 10% how many billions of $ would that be? --Jerry >>

I'm not so sure that'd happen >>

I don't think it would either. The older coins will still be fair game for scammers and there are plenty in heritage archives to keep them busy so this isn't a solution at all...-Jerry

notwilight · May 2, 2009 3:47PM

<< 

<< 

<< At the risk of repeating myself AGAIN, I'll point out that you're ignoring the millions of coins already in slabs. Should we just avoid any coins slabbed before June 1, 2009 when the new program starts? If all these coins went down in value by 10% how many billions of $ would that be? --Jerry >>

I'm not so sure that'd happen >>

of course it wouldn't, as people would wise up and send their coins back to PCGS for re-holdering. As i mentioned in a previous thread, i've sent all of my four and five figure coins back to NGC for the $5 re-holdering, so they can scan the coins for the cert. database. The remaining less valuable coins will be re-holdered/scanned in the next 6 months. how hard is that? >>

As I pointed out in your other thread, reholdered coins are not seen by a grader so how long until fake coins get into the database?

ChrisRx · May 2, 2009 3:47PM

<< 

<< It would seem that PCGS could put together a new team to do it, though...yes there would be more salary to pay, but think of the business they'd steal? Plus, there would never be another "is this a fake slab" thread. >>

At the risk of repeating myself AGAIN, I'll point out that you're ignoring the millions of coins already in slabs. Should we just avoid any coins slabbed before June 1, 2009 when the new program starts? If all these coins went down in value by 10% how many billions of $ would that be? --Jerry >>

The imaging would have to start at sometime and perhaps pcgs would allow a small number of higher priced coins to be sent in for free imaging. If there would be any value loss it would be with those collectors that have not done their homework and are not confident enough in a series/coin to determine that it is not counterfeit.

Doogy · May 2, 2009 3:50PM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< At the risk of repeating myself AGAIN, I'll point out that you're ignoring the millions of coins already in slabs. Should we just avoid any coins slabbed before June 1, 2009 when the new program starts? If all these coins went down in value by 10% how many billions of $ would that be? --Jerry >>

I'm not so sure that'd happen >>

of course it wouldn't, as people would wise up and send their coins back to PCGS for re-holdering. As i mentioned in a previous thread, i've sent all of my four and five figure coins back to NGC for the $5 re-holdering, so they can scan the coins for the cert. database. The remaining less valuable coins will be re-holdered/scanned in the next 6 months. how hard is that? >>

As I pointed out in your other thread, reholdered coins are not seen by a grader so how long until fake coins get into the database? >>

look at my response, they are seen by a grader at NGC; if PCGS doesn't, they should certainly consider it.

commoncents123 · May 2, 2009 3:53PM

Then maybe they could offer free re-holdering for 6 months. You know, for the greater good.

Doogy · May 2, 2009 3:57PM

<< Then maybe they could offer free re-holdering for 6 months. You know, for the greater good. >>

This is strictly my opinion, buy you may want to change the topic to a free 'high-res scanning' service be free. NGC is able to scan the coin in slab much faster than Phil taking his time with a raw coin to get it perfect, the two aren't the same. However, with the scans that they are taking, one is easily able to discern details, toning patterns and nicks/scratches and other things to positively ID a coin.

Personally, I don't think the TrueView should be free as it is top tier photography, but a high-res scan service should be.

commoncents123 · May 2, 2009 4:02PM

<< 

<< Then maybe they could offer free re-holdering for 6 months. You know, for the greater good. >>

This is strictly my opinion, buy you may want to change the topic to a free 'high-res scanning' service be free. NGC is able to scan the coin in slab much faster than Phil taking his time with a raw coin to get it perfect, the two aren't the same. However, with the scans that they are taking, one is easily able to discern details, toning patterns and nicks/scratches and other things to positively ID a coin.

Personally, I don't think the TrueView should be free as it is top tier photography, but a high-res scan service should be. >>

Well since I can't change the poll, lets see how this plays out. A high-res scan would likely be a very acceptable compromise.

notwilight · May 2, 2009 4:11PM

Here's an ebay coin I've been admiring for a while. 1856 cent

I just looked it up at NGC. I'll try to link it but I doubt it'll work unless you are logged in there: NGC cert verification for this coin.

It's hard to tell they're the same coin. Other opinions? --Jerry

QuarterCollector · May 2, 2009 6:32PM

Yes..... I think NGC's photo certification service is a great idea to help combat the growing number of fakes from japan. Too bad I don't like their grading or their holders. I wish PCGS would do something similar. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening in my lifetime.

Tom

BAJJERFAN · May 2, 2009 7:06PM

<< 

<< 

<< At the risk of repeating myself AGAIN, I'll point out that you're ignoring the millions of coins already in slabs. Should we just avoid any coins slabbed before June 1, 2009 when the new program starts? If all these coins went down in value by 10% how many billions of $ would that be? --Jerry >>

I'm not so sure that'd happen >>

of course it wouldn't, as people would wise up and send their coins back to PCGS for re-holdering. As i mentioned in a previous thread, i've sent all of my four and five figure coins back to NGC for the $5 re-holdering, so they can scan the coins for the cert. database. The remaining less valuable coins will be re-holdered/scanned in the next 6 months. how hard is that? >>

There are a lot of folks who won't send older green holdered coins or doily coins back for reholdering so a lot of stuff would never get reholdered. I expect it would be limited 8 digit cert number stuff. And does anyone really expect PCGS to lavish the same attention on a $30 turd as they would on a $30K gem?

KlectorKid · May 2, 2009 7:20PM

<< Here's an ebay coin I've been admiring for a while. 1856 cent

I just looked it up at NGC. I'll try to link it but I doubt it'll work unless you are logged in there: NGC cert verification for this coin.

It's hard to tell they're the same coin. Other opinions? --Jerry >>

The scans aren't great but they are better than nothing. Even if they took Trueview quality photos they would only be as helpful as the e-bay seller's

Placid · May 2, 2009 7:49PM

Hereare Heritage pics vs. trueview posted in another thread.
Not sure I could tell for sure if they are the same coin or not.

DwaineO · May 2, 2009 8:40PM

While I like the idea I voted no. Reason is that Trueview are much higher quality and do not display the slab. I think the purpose is to show the coin but also the slab. JMHO.

JL3Eleven · May 2, 2009 10:44PM

<< 

<< It would seem that PCGS could put together a new team to do it, though...yes there would be more salary to pay, but think of the business they'd steal? Plus, there would never be another "is this a fake slab" thread. >>

At the risk of repeating myself AGAIN, I'll point out that you're ignoring the millions of coins already in slabs. Should we just avoid any coins slabbed before June 1, 2009 when the new program starts? If all these coins went down in value by 10% how many billions of $ would that be? --Jerry >>

So are you not going to be buying any NGC coins before they started this program? There comes a time when a change is needed, and this is the next step.

Why would your coin lose 10% of its value?

RegistryCoin · May 2, 2009 10:48PM

Trueview with grading should have been the M.O. years back. If it's a good idea now, it was a great idea when it was "begged for" years ago.

TwoSides2aCoin · May 2, 2009 10:51PM

I've been a contractor for 12 years and every time I give someone something for "free" they seem to have bigger gripes than the guy who's paid for everything he got.

devious · May 2, 2009 11:03PM

I'd expect their grading fees to be increased to cover costs of new database servers and lots of new hard drives for the storage capacity this would require long-term. Free? I think not. To increase their fees by 2 dollars a tier, why not? I'd be for it.

[we're talking about scanning here, not photos]

itsnotjustme · May 2, 2009 11:26PM

Maybe you could pay for it....

itsnotjustme · May 2, 2009 11:33PM

yes there would be more salary to pay

Salary, process step (and good photos are not automatic photos), file maintenance & storage, web traffic, etc.

Why don't you just pay for it? It would be nice if my electricity, gas, cable, internet, phone, and mortgage were free too.

Swampboy · May 3, 2009 3:24AM

<< I've been a contractor for 12 years and every time I give someone something for "free" they seem to have bigger gripes than the guy who's paid for everything he got. >>

Recognize this danger sign?

"I'd like you to come out and give me a free estimate."

TwoSides2aCoin · May 3, 2009 3:27AM

<< 

<< I've been a contractor for 12 years and every time I give someone something for "free" they seem to have bigger gripes than the guy who's paid for everything he got. >>

Recognize this danger sign?

"I'd like you to come out and give me a free estimate." >>

Over 1000 times per year

I told the board of directors to put "Expensive Estimates" on the back of our vehicles.

BECOKA · May 3, 2009 3:37AM

I voted yes as it is another authenticity verification check now that slabs are being counterfeited.

pocketpiececommems · May 3, 2009 3:37AM

I would think that it would be cost effective in the long run with no price increase with the increased business that it would generate just like the genuine slabs instead of bb.

speety · May 3, 2009 3:41AM

No! It makes no sense economically. However, a scan like NGC would make a lot of sense and wouldn't be that difficult nor take that much time.

However, i would love to have free trueviews

LindeDad · May 3, 2009 3:44AM

I voted no! Free is not Free if it drives a company out of business.
They could do a high resolution scan at a reasonable cost. And possibly add those to the cretification verifcation program.
But True Views are not scans, and if the coin merits it, the submitter can and will pay for the True View.
But who is going to True View a Presidential dollar especially a Satin Finsih one that ends up selling on eBay for grading fees only.

nicetoning42107 · May 3, 2009 4:02AM

i thought the point of having scans of the coin and slab available on the NGC site was to combat the fake coins and fake slabs? Sure, NGC has scans and the scans aren't even close to the quality of the TrueViews of PCGS. But the point is to be able to tell a fake coin from a real coin. i find i am able to do that even with the low-quality NGC scans at this time. To be fair, though, you have to eventually raise the issue of what if the counterfeiters produce slabs and coins that are even more deceptive. At that point one might need TrueView quality photos to discern when dealing with certain select coin series.

For now, this NGC scan service is neither a complete solution or a complete failure for reasons mentioned above in this post and other posts in this thread already.

As for the OP question: no. i don't believe at this point in time. TrueView is $20. PCGS makes it free. But at the same time they make that service free they raise the grading expenses $20 at each tier.

Why would i want to pay $34 a pop to have Modern crap graded and imaged when i can have it graded at this time for $14? See the problem with making that mandatory? Please leave TrueView optional at this time. Always leave the choice to the people/customers when reasonably possible.

TwoSides2aCoin · May 3, 2009 4:05AM

When in China, do as the Chinese. Eat rice, shut up , and fake it.

JL3Eleven · May 3, 2009 5:36AM

<< i thought the point of having scans of the coin and slab available on the NGC site was to combat the fake coins and fake slabs? Sure, NGC has scans and the scans aren't even close to the quality of the TrueViews of PCGS. But the point is to be able to tell a fake coin from a real coin. i find i am able to do that even with the low-quality NGC scans at this time. To be fair, though, you have to eventually raise the issue of what if the counterfeiters produce slabs and coins that are even more deceptive. At that point one might need TrueView quality photos to discern when dealing with certain select coin series.

For now, this NGC scan service is neither a complete solution or a complete failure for reasons mentioned above in this post and other posts in this thread already.

As for the OP question: no. i don't believe at this point in time. TrueView is $20. PCGS makes it free. But at the same time they make that service free they raise the grading expenses $20 at each tier.

Why would i want to pay $34 a pop to have Modern crap graded and imaged when i can have it graded at this time for $14? See the problem with making that mandatory? Please leave TrueView optional at this time. Always leave the choice to the people/customers when reasonably possible. >>

So you guys think a 2 second pic is going to drive PCGS out of business? Or raise tier prices by $20? All I can say is keep dreaming! If anything raise tier prices by 1 or 2 bucks and relax because you now know you got what you paid for!

Wolf359 · May 3, 2009 10:24AM

<< I've been a contractor for 12 years and every time I give someone something for "free" they seem to have bigger gripes than the guy who's paid for everything he got. >>

But it was all for the greater good right?

speety · May 3, 2009 11:19AM

Another point that people forget is that there is only one guy taking truviews (iirc). PCGS could not keep the quality with that kind of quantity.

Should Trueview service be free and automatic for the greater good?

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