Stack's Auction Snafu on March 11 - What should service recovery look like?

jdillane · May 1, 2009 3:52AM

I forget the name this auction was captioned but Stack's had issues and pulled it from their site shortly after it ended. I was advised that I won one coin. I had been the high bidder on more than 20 when the auction closed. I realize that was at risk to be out bid by fax bids and thought I might lose a couple or even several as they can take a few minutes to process following the close of the auction. But, I was told that I only won one coin. Stack's would not even confirm that I lost the others, or even which coins I had bid on.

Now I realize that mistakes can happen but the measure of an individual, as well as an organization, is how they respond to problems. Here, after my first email inquiry in which I was advised that there were problems, I have not received a reply to any of my emails. I finally paid for the one coin on Apr 15, after expressing disappointment in the lack of service recovery. But, still no coin and I can't get a response from Ms. Karsted.

Did anyone else run in to issues with this auction? Is this Stack's in the face of an issue - ignore it, delete any reference to it, and hope it goes away?

SaorAlba · May 1, 2009 5:48AM

I bid on and won a PCGS MS-67 Texas half last fall that didn't show up with the package with my other lots. I called them and they couldn't find the lot initially and I am getting a bit chaffed - then they located it - it had been misplaced. But what if they lost it and never "found" it and I never got it? Maybe I don't wanna know. At least they made right on it and I got it two days later.

Flatwoods · May 1, 2009 6:11AM

I won a lot in the same auction. I received notice and paid and received the lot promptly.
I called and asked about the problems and never got a straight answer.
I hope it works out for you. In my experience the people that answer the phones
when I call are less than helpful.

jdillane · May 1, 2009 7:44AM

I am a bit steamed at how this has been handled. It would seem that they should come clean with what went wrong. I can only assume that they had a problem with the fax and that Keshequa Coins was freaked out that their bids to buy back the coins were mishandled. Keshequa's web site still says they consigned to Stack's.

Having circled the wagons, it seems likely that the auction problems are fodder for litigation and the atty's won out over doing what is right.

I'd love to know how many others ran into problems with this auction or got a run around when asked to explain what went wrong. Any consignors out there that has additional info about what happened?

Al21 · May 1, 2009 8:31AM

I ebid on several lots on the March 11 coin galleries auction. When the auction ended I thought I was high bidder on at least 5-6 lots. But I heard nothing from them. I assumed I was outbid by mail bids.
Over the years I have had no problems with stacks.

SaorAlba · May 1, 2009 10:29PM

Let me add, I have had good experiences with contacting individuals by email and getting prompt responses with order tracking etc. Asked them to up my credit recently and got a positive response in like 15 minutes.

jdillane · May 2, 2009 12:53AM

perhaps my mistake was emailing Ms Karsted directly. She's probably too important to be concerned about customer service or advocating that Stack's share what went wrong (root cause) and what they did to ensure it won't recur.

Al21 · May 2, 2009 1:37AM

jdillane, what happened to that auction? I haven't heard anything except for this post. Thanks

Flatwoods · May 2, 2009 3:01AM

jdillane, what happened to that auction? I haven't heard anything except for this post. Thanks

Good question. It just disappeared. Nothing in the archives.
Just like it never happened.

jdillane · May 2, 2009 4:02AM

<< jdillane, what happened to that auction? I haven't heard anything except for this post. Thanks >>

Good question. Stack's admitted they had problems with the auction shortly after it ended and told me they would be unable to confirm which coins I had bid on. Then they pulled the auction from the website and have stonewalled ever since.

I was high bidder at the end of the auction for over 20 CBH's. The auction did indicate that timely faxes could change the results but I figured this would have only a minimal impact on my results. I was subsequently advised that I won only one cbh. I asked more questions and have received no replies nor even acknowledgement of my inquiries.

IMO, this is patently unacceptable for a major auction house. Figured the best recourse at this time is to inform others of Stack's difficulty in executing an auction. This is fair warning to bidders and consignors alike.

Frankcoins · May 2, 2009 11:15AM

<< 

<< jdillane, what happened to that auction? I haven't heard anything except for this post. Thanks >>

Good question. Stack's admitted they had problems with the auction shortly after it ended and told me they would be unable to confirm which coins I had bid on. Then they pulled the auction from the website and have stonewalled ever since.

I was high bidder at the end of the auction for over 20 CBH's. The auction did indicate that timely faxes could change the results but I figured this would have only a minimal impact on my results. I was subsequently advised that I won only one cbh. I asked more questions and have received no replies nor even acknowledgement of my inquiries.

IMO, this is patently unacceptable for a major auction house. Figured the best recourse at this time is to inform others of Stack's difficulty in executing an auction. This is fair warning to bidders and consignors alike. >>

Didn't you read the terms of the auction? Move on. Auction houses are not going to respond to all the inquiries "but I THOUGHT I was the high bidder....waaaaaa!"

From time to time, Stack's allows parties to participate in auctions or sales through the use of Internet or on-line bidding services or companies, telephones, computers, and other electronic, telephonic, or similar or related technologies or devices (the "Services"). All parties that participate in any way in any Stack's sale or auction including, but not limited to, consignors, sellers, bidders, purchasers, potential purchasers, and their agents or representatives ("Participants") acknowledge and agree as follows:
that there are risks in utilizing the Services or any other technology or device;
that all Participants assume all risks associated with the use of the Services or any other technology or device; and
that Stack's does not control or maintain all or many of the Services or any other related technology or device utilized in connection with the Services or any auction or sale.
By participating in any auction or sale, or by using any of the Services or any related technology or device, all Participants agree that Stack's is not responsible for any damages whatsoever, consequential or otherwise, arising out of, or relating to, the use of any such Service or other related technology or device. Stack's disclaimer of liability, and Participant's assumption of risk includes, but is not limited to, damages that result from any failure, interruption, disruption, or delay of any Service or related technology or device. Stack's is not, and shall not be held, responsible for any damages of any kind or nature whatsoever arising from the foregoing. By way of example, and not limitation, Stack's is not responsible for any inability to use any Service or system, loss of electronic information which may affect any bid or any other aspect of the auction, service suspension, acts of God, or any other acts or omissions. In no event will Stack's be liable for any damages or losses whatsoever experienced through the use of any Service, regardless of whether Stack's knew or should have known of the possibility of such damages or losses. All Participants involved in the sale of any particular Lot or item agree to indemnify and hold harmless, Stack's, its Members, directors, officers, employees and agents for any claim, suit, action, incident of loss, or damage (including reasonable legal fees and expenses) relating to that particular Lot or item that may arise as a result of any Participant's use of any of the Services or related technology or device.

BlindedByEgo · May 2, 2009 11:19AM

<< 
Didn't you read the terms of the auction? Move on. Auction houses are not going to respond to all the inquiries "but I THOUGHT I was the high bidder....waaaaaa!" >>

Still a know it all jerk, huh?

jdillane · May 2, 2009 1:08PM

<< 

Didn't you read the terms of the auction? Move on. Auction houses are not going to respond to all the inquiries "but I THOUGHT I was the high bidder....waaaaaa!"

>>

Whether I won 1 coin or 20 is not the point. They failed to execute the auction properly and don't have the integrity to explain what went wrong. I have a reasonable expectation that they will not be negligent in the execution of the auction (as do the consignors) if the problem was merely one of a technological nature beyond their control, they should so state. When something goes wrong, as it did here, one can stonewall or come clean.

Customer service 101 is in play here, Frankie-boy. Beware the bad press when you wrong a customer. They might air your dirty laundry to others in the biz, effectively rendering the stonewall strategy an inferior approach.

Plus, going on three weeks since I paid for the coin I won and still waiting. Me thinks this is ample fodder to call Stack's out.

Finally, Frankie, just suppose for a moment that there was a system failure and the consignor was unable to buy back the coins. But, the consignor is an important customer so the folks at Stack's decide to honor the buy back despite failure to execute same in a timely manner. Hmmm, do you still think there is no cause of action? Why don't you show me the language that gives Stack's such unfettered discretion?

You see, the stonewall approach also has the potential to lead some to wonder if the issue was worse than it really was.

Frankcoins · May 3, 2009 2:52PM

<< 

Still a know it all jerk, huh? >>

I am a licensed auctioneer, and just scored 100% on my continuing education test 2 weeks ago. So, yeah, I do a lot about my profession. And reality is that there is little recourse for when your bids are not properly executed, for any reason. So if you consider me a "jerk" for stating the facts, so be it.

Frankcoins · May 3, 2009 2:58PM

<< 
Whether I won 1 coin or 20 is not the point. They failed to execute the auction properly and don't have the integrity to explain what went wrong. I have a reasonable expectation that they will not be negligent in the execution of the auction (as do the consignors) if the problem was merely one of a technological nature beyond their control, they should so state. When something goes wrong, as it did here, one can stonewall or come clean. >>

You are not their customer, the consignor is. They do not owe you an explanation.

seanq · May 3, 2009 3:48PM

<< 

<< 
Whether I won 1 coin or 20 is not the point. They failed to execute the auction properly and don't have the integrity to explain what went wrong. I have a reasonable expectation that they will not be negligent in the execution of the auction (as do the consignors) if the problem was merely one of a technological nature beyond their control, they should so state. When something goes wrong, as it did here, one can stonewall or come clean. >>

You are not their customer, the consignor is. They do not owe you an explanation. >>

I would think both the consignor and the bidder are their customers, since they earn a fee from both sides of the transaction, but then again I'm not a licensed auctioneer.

Sean Reynolds

sinin1 · May 3, 2009 4:36PM

I have had internet bids missed before, and have been at auctions where live bidders had advantages over internet bidders

next time if you want something, hop on a plane, see the coins, and if they miss your bid, yell louder

Frankcoins · May 3, 2009 8:07PM

<< 

Customer service 101 is in play here, Frankie-boy. Beware the bad press when you wrong a customer. They might air your dirty laundry to others in the biz, effectively rendering the stonewall strategy an inferior approach. >>

I do not apprciate being called "Frankie-boy" Very unprofessional on your part.

jdillane · May 4, 2009 3:41AM

<< 

<< 

Customer service 101 is in play here, Frankie-boy. Beware the bad press when you wrong a customer. They might air your dirty laundry to others in the biz, effectively rendering the stonewall strategy an inferior approach. >>

I do not apprciate being called "Frankie-boy" Very unprofessional on your part. >>

Sorry, Frank, I got carried away. But I will say that those who too narrowly define their customers, do so at their own peril.

I think you mischaracterized the nature of my post and focused on a peripheral item. Granted, I think I demonstrated a possible scenario vis the peripheral item that shoots a hole in your assertion.

Lastly, if Stack's simply suffered a meltdown as contemplated by their boilerplate, why would they not own up to it? The stonewalling and complete removal of any reference to the auction from their site suggests something more nepharious.

Frankcoins · May 4, 2009 3:57AM

<< 
Sorry, Frank, I got carried away. But I will say that those who too narrowly define their customers, do so at their own peril.

I think you mischaracterized the nature of my post and focused on a peripheral item. Granted, I think I demonstrated a possible scenario vis the peripheral item that shoots a hole in your assertion.

Lastly, if Stack's simply suffered a meltdown as contemplated by their boilerplate, why would they not own up to it? The stonewalling and complete removal of any reference to the auction from their site suggests something more nepharious. >>

There are lots of scenarios (and I have seen about all of them) where auctions get pulled, and the auction house could
get in trouble for violating confidentiality by giving the reason. Like a divorce attorney discovering undeclared coins
set for auction. The consignor has made a bankruptcy filing and all assets are frozen, or has an unpaid judgement, someone has claimed the coins are
stolen, or misattributed, or a "bid rigging" ring has been discovered targeting the particular coins (people conspire to let only
ONE person bid, and split the profits from not having any competition) Maybe the coin was stolen during viewing, or sent out
overnight for a quick view from a well-heeled client, and has not been returned in time for the auction.

jdillane · May 4, 2009 4:08AM

Indeed there are other plausible scenarios, but I doubt Keshequa coins went under. I suppose if Stack's would send me the coin that they acknowledged I had won and that I paid for electronically nearly 3 weeks ago, I would be inclined to let it go.

jdillane · May 4, 2009 4:19AM

This, just received from Stack's

"Mr. Dillane

Please be advised that your package is being shipped today, express mail from our N.H. Office.

Please accept our apology for the delay, and we are sorry for any inconvenience this has caused.

Regarding the Auction Problems, some will contact you with further information."

Positive steps....

seanq · May 4, 2009 4:28AM

Gee, I wonder if someone alerted them to this thread...?

Sean Reynolds

Al21 · May 4, 2009 4:31AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

Lastly, if Stack's simply suffered a meltdown as contemplated by their boilerplate, why would they not own up to it? The stonewalling and complete removal of any reference to the auction from their site suggests something more nepharious. >>

Agreed, if their computer system crashed or the lots were pulled from the auction or whatever. the bidders deserve an explanation. Bidders are customers.

PreTurb · May 13, 2009 9:29PM

interesting discussion...

Stack's Auction Snafu on March 11 - What should service recovery look like?

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