The latest mint fiasco UPDATED!!!!

70md · April 21, 2009 12:36PM

I placed an order for the First Hag unc and proof and decided to save myself $50 because I knew the price was going back down. I was right and then replaced the order the following day (wednesday) at the beginning of the month. The website has shown the order in process as well as in-stock and reserved for the last 2 weeks. I am getting frustrated so I call the mint and wait on hold for 20 minutes. Finally, I talk with the mint rep and she says they are getting overwhelmed with orders and the people in the warehouse have the order. "It will ship- but they are really backed up right now." She goes on to say how they are working overtime every night and cannot keep up with capacity. I am trying not to bust out laughing and somehow managed to restrain myself from saying, "Only in the government could you get away with this..."

I dunno correct me if I'm wrong but: Get order printed, pick up order in warehouse containing items that mint offers (50 at most) put in box. Verify order. Seal box. Ship box. Hmmm- what at most 2-3 days of backlog on a busy schedule....? I mean what do they have there working 2 people total? Dumb and dumber!? 3 weeks almost now- this is incredulous! Its a wonder they can get the orders right!? I don't get it! Help me to understand!!!!!!?

notwilight · April 21, 2009 12:39PM

People who have never set foot in a business, worked in the business, or been in the business always know how to run it better. --Jerry

jessewvu · April 21, 2009 12:46PM

I think the new contractor, PB, running this train wreck is only shipping out a few times a week/month to save on processing fees. They might have other businesses in the warehouse (like newegg, amazon, ect.) and swing shifts. I am sure it costs the mint a lot less to do it. I will say that although it takes about 30-40 minutes to get a US Mint rep on the phone, they seem A WHOLE lot more knowledgeable about their products and ordering system and can get answers now that the old slackers couldn't.

I think they just don't ship every day like they used to. Get used to it.

notwilight · April 21, 2009 12:57PM

<< I think the new contractor, PB, running this train wreck is only shipping out a few times a week/month to save on processing fees. They might have other businesses in the warehouse (like newegg, amazon, ect.) and swing shifts. I am sure it costs the mint a lot less to do it. I will say that although it takes about 30-40 minutes to get a US Mint rep on the phone, they seem A WHOLE lot more knowledgeable about their products and ordering system and can get answers now that the old slackers couldn't.

I think they just don't ship every day like they used to. Get used to it. >>

I think they inherited a mess, got dinged by the pre-existing problem with the order tracking page, aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer themselves, and are trying to get it all wrapped up and running smoothly which means a lot of catching up. ONce they get caught up I get the impression these guys will be better but you never know. It is April already. But in any business that does this much business (clearly hundreds of millions of dollars) there is always a large amount of overhead/admin BS they have to do that an outsider would never think of. Labor relations, industrial safety, quality review/self assessment, training, benchmarking, database management and audits, etc..

--Jerry

70md · April 21, 2009 1:04PM

Jerry,

I think its great you see the glass as half-full. My parents retired from the VA after 20 some odd years so from my perspective I guess I see the glass for what it usually is- on its side and spilled over. Leaving UHR's on doorsteps and signing for the book- c'mon that can only happen with the gov't!!! I will give both responders full credit that the reps are nicer and a bit more knowledgeable but... they still don't have many answers which I presume is coming from inept individuals in higher channels who don't feel they need to answer to anyone. The mint is really now all internet based, you can get phone support and service but just be prepared to wait an awful long time. I get more information from this website and coinworld than anything the mint releases.

JCMhouston · April 21, 2009 1:09PM

Remeber that it took twice as many steps to fill your order.
1. Accept the first order
2. Cancel the first order
3. Accpet the second order
4. FIll the order

With a huge number of people doing the same thing, and returning them when the price of gold goes down $1, it takes a lot more work.

droopyd · April 21, 2009 1:14PM

I suspect they low-balled the bid, and are now realizing that they aren't able to hire sufficient numbers of staff and still maintain their profit margin.

DieClash · April 21, 2009 1:14PM

According to the 2008 Annual report of U.S. Mint operations, they were achieving a 76% shipment fulfillment rate within 7 days. Not bad if you ask me. The big failure of the current contractor is that they are achieving a 0% fulfillment rate in the same statistical category. I am patient. And so far I have received a 100% success rate in the accuracy of orders fulfilled, albiet in the 4-6 week range rather than the 7-day range. In this, I miss the old fulfillment contractor. I am hoping that this is a result of a new city from which products are warehoused and orders are fulfilled rather than a sign of future expectations.

The quality of the U.S. Mint products have also declined if the UHR is an example. Mine had many very visible die polishing marks that detracted from the overall beauty of the design, if not the technical grade. Not a good sign if the dies were only used to produce 500 coins apiece!

70md · April 21, 2009 1:15PM

Hey I do pretty well but $50 is $50 and no reason to give it to the government any sooner than I have to. Course now, if you equate $50 with $1 you must be doing a lot better than me. And perhaps your silver spoon is blinding you such that you don't realize not all of us over here are eating cake or for that matter sipping the Kool-aid.

19Lyds · April 21, 2009 2:36PM

<< I think they inherited a mess, >>

I disagree.

They under bid those that had a smooth running operation already and now can;t make heads or tails of it.

The end result, poor service!

tmcsr69 · April 21, 2009 3:24PM

<< People who have never set foot in a business, worked in the business, or been in the business always know how to run it better. --Jerry >>

I agree. I'm sure the process seems simple but guarantee that it isn't.

Bochiman · April 21, 2009 5:31PM

<< 

<< I think they inherited a mess, >>

I disagree.

They under bid those that had a smooth running operation already and now can;t make heads or tails of it.

The end result, poor service! >>

I think this is probably closer to the truth than many thoughts so far, imho.
Also, it isn't the government employees that are so ineffective, in this case, I believe. It is the pitney bowes employees/contractors/management that went into this thinking they knew what to do and were obviously incorrect.

Now, the incompetent mint employees would be the ones at the mint that did the contracting and negotiations.

droopyd · April 21, 2009 6:08PM

<< Now, the incompetent mint employees would be the ones at the mint that did the contracting and negotiations. >>

Unfortunately, I think that they are fairly strongly obligated to select the low bidder so long as the proposal meets the minimum stated requirements. It doesn't matter if another bidder can perform twice as well for 3% more money.

Bochiman · April 21, 2009 6:42PM

<< 

<< Now, the incompetent mint employees would be the ones at the mint that did the contracting and negotiations. >>

Unfortunately, I think that they are fairly strongly obligated to select the low bidder so long as the proposal meets the minimum stated requirements. It doesn't matter if another bidder can perform twice as well for 3% more money. >>

Yes, I think you are correct...and so the "minimum stated requirements" (we call them SLAs in my business, for Service level agreements), weren't done well. Maybe if the employees used their own services, or their higher ups did, things would change, but Moy just likes being in the press and pictures for each launch.

Frankcoins · April 21, 2009 8:19PM

<< I placed an order for the First Hag unc and proof and decided to save myself $50 because I knew the price was going back down. I was right and then replaced the order the following day (wednesday) at the beginning of the month. >>

I don't see how people justify cancelling and reordering bullion related items when the price declines. Do that with a stock broker and
they will send you a bill. People did this all the time at our retail store, of course we had placed firm buy orders and were responsible
for paying the higher price.

No one ever cancelled the order and placed a new one when the price went up....

Well once...

A guy ordered 100 1oz gold eagles, when we got them the next day from Dillon Gage, (and had about $50,000 wired out of our bank account) gold had gone up
about $20 an ounce. The buyer claimed he had ordered 200 ounces, not 100, and wanted us to order 100 coins we had 'shorted" him and sell them at yesterday's price, otherwise he would refuse the 100 coins.

So we made $500 on the first hundred coins and lost $2000 on the second hundred, net loss on the deal $1500.

I tried to tell the owner of my store, the 70-something widow of the founder, what the guy was doing to us, and should either complete
the original deal and make $500 or if the guy wanted to cancel the deal, the store could return them to Dillon Gage and make $1500
Instead I got a lecture to be more careful the next time I take an order....

fishcooker · April 21, 2009 10:59PM

Its a wonder they can get the orders right!?

Last year they shipped me a Gold 1/10th when I ordered (and paid for) a Platinum 1/2 oz. Of course, that was before this new and improved warehouse!

It finally got resolved, though, early this year.

notwilight · April 21, 2009 11:12PM

<< 

<< I think they inherited a mess, >>

I disagree.

They under bid those that had a smooth running operation already and now can;t make heads or tails of it.

The end result, poor service! >>

Maybe you didn't have as much frustration with the previous contractor as I did but I think they had a lot of loose ends hanging out that needed to be cleared up. I just got an order shipped this month that was placed with the previous contractor so I know they're still catching up from last year. --Jerry

notwilight · April 21, 2009 11:14PM

<< 

<< 

<< I think they inherited a mess, >>

I disagree.

They under bid those that had a smooth running operation already and now can;t make heads or tails of it.

The end result, poor service! >>

I think this is probably closer to the truth than many thoughts so far, imho.
Also, it isn't the government employees that are so ineffective, in this case, I believe. It is the pitney bowes employees/contractors/management that went into this thinking they knew what to do and were obviously incorrect.

Now, the incompetent mint employees would be the ones at the mint that did the contracting and negotiations. >>

Also the contractors are bound by the contract to do what they're told so they may also be getting direction from incompetent mint employees...and they may not be totally incompetent but they've worked in a fat, inefficient, convoluted govt bureaucracy for so long they forgot what the real world looks like. DAMHIK. --Jerry

CaptHenway · April 21, 2009 11:48PM

Here's a suggestion......the Mint should charge a $50 cancellation fee on orders over $1000. Will discourage the nickel and dimers.
TD

Longacre · April 21, 2009 11:54PM

So long as you have a confirmed order and you saved your $50, I think you should be willing to wait a few weeks for the coin.

70md · April 22, 2009 12:10AM

I think too many of you are way up on those pedestals of yours. First, I never said I wasn't "willing" to wait. I expressed there was no good reason for me to have to wait this long, and I maintain that position strongly. Do I care about waiting? No, I don't really care- I think its just par for the course with the government. Second, for you people who don't think saving $50 is worth 15 seconds of your time I think calls into question some compelling issues that perhaps need to be addressed further within this forum. And for Frankie who didn't take the order right, sorry you got burned but the guy is right and THAT IS WHY TRUE PROFESSIONALS let the customer know they are recording the call for both parties sake. For my part, I don't mind keeping my $50 and if the goofballs don't get the order out and it drops again I'll a be cancelling it again and probably waiting another month for them to do what should take 5 minutes. And in that month I'll hope the price drops again!

ElKevvo · April 22, 2009 12:59AM

I am in the 'customer service at the Mint is horrible' camp but don't agree folks should be ordering and returning things just because the price drops a couple of percentage points. The Mint had inadvertently allowed folks to do this with the extended order cycle and as this has become standard until they get to the point they can ship very quickly after someone orders they will be subject to folks canceling the order if the product is repriced down. But like I said, the couple of percentage points should not be an issue but it is money and 50 bucks is 50 bucks.

K

notwilight · April 22, 2009 1:43AM

<< Here's a suggestion......the Mint should charge a $50 cancellation fee on orders over $1000. Will discourage the nickel and dimers. TD >>

I'm fine with that. Will they pay me $50 when they cancel my order? That would help but not much. --Jerry

70md · April 22, 2009 2:25AM

This is a system in flux for the mint- its evident why they changed the 30 day policy but there is still room for the buyer to work the system. When there were big fluxes in price prior to the policy i bought anyway thinking the mint wouldn't lower the price. I got burned on the 2008 Platinums, and the 10th Anniversary set. That will take many $50 challenges to recoup. They should have made their pricing policy clear earlier on. I am still BITTER about those losses!!!!!!

GritsMan · April 22, 2009 2:37AM

Just got my UHR a week after ordering--and I did have to sign for it. Not bad. Maybe they are through the transition phase.

MsMorrisine · April 22, 2009 2:41AM

the thing is,,,, well things....

the order/cancel game was being played before PBGS took over, and things were better then. (I'm not doing it, fwiw)

this would not seem to affect ship times past a certain point, since one it gets past a point to where it is prepared for shipping, the order can't be cancelled. So, this would affect ship-prep times... such as order and CC verification times. I've an order that's been "in stock and reserved" for over a month..... It's been ready to ship and it's not going out for over 30 days! All the order/cancels in the world is not affecting this.

(been in order fulfillment before. also, as said before, pre-pbgs times show what is possible. pbgs is not even close to meeting the previous levels... and I was happy with the previous levels.)

70md · April 22, 2009 3:20AM

Who's the girl on your avatar supposed to be? It certainly isn't a coin collector. I've seen the people there....

LanLord · April 22, 2009 3:24AM

<< Who's the girl on your avatar supposed to be? It certainly isn't a coin collector. I've seen the people there.... >>

That's queen Amadala

70md · April 22, 2009 4:12AM

I've observed that there are many Star Wars fans in these forums. I guess that is a step above the trekkies though.

70md · April 22, 2009 9:27AM

The UHR went from a ship date of 6/24 to now available. My second one has just arrived. For those members holding out for $15-1600 on their 69's and raw's I'm wagering the limit is going to be changed really soon!!!

Capgun · April 22, 2009 10:00AM

<< Remeber that it took twice as many steps to fill your order.
1. Accept the first order
2. Cancel the first order
3. Accpet the second order
4. FIll the order

With a huge number of people doing the same thing, and returning them when the price of gold goes down $1, it takes a lot more work. >>

Hmm, 1.) Order placed electronically by buyer. Electronically accepted without any Mint employee involvement.
2.) Order cancelled electronically by buyer. Electronically cancelled without any Mint employee involvement.
3.) Order placed electronically by buyer. Electronically accepted WELL YOU GET THE DRIFT.
4.) Order waiting in limbo que for 5 to 6 weeks.
*Number 5.) And most important, there is now Mint involvement. The soft authorization is placed on your credit card jamming up your available limit
for anywhere from 5 weeks to 4 months and the Mint employee has worked his fingers to the bone removing your cancel box. You'll see the
authorization drop off in a couple more months when you get the "Sorry Sold Out" e-mail.
OR

*Number 6.) The order is pulled, packed & shipped.

Of note here is the exhaustive effort the Mint employees & subcontractor has exhibited in getting an order out (totally about 15 minutes.)

I am in total agreement with 70md. He's playing by their rules & I'll bet he filed his taxes on time too !

adamlaneus · April 22, 2009 10:06AM

My little mint fiasco ended well

I ended up calling them to update the card.

Then, five weeks later, my stuff shows up.

What's the problem?

pennyannie · April 22, 2009 10:43AM

MD70- I agree with you. Piss poor service. A cancelled order is not a big deal. It is not like they actually pulled it, packaged it, and addressed it. The warehouse most likely never saw the order. 50 dollars is not going to solve the problems our country is facing but i do not like to throw that much away. Those that say 50 bucks is no big deal, my address is--------------------------------.

As long as you play within the guidelines who cares if you order or cancel?? 100 people are behind you wanting the same item. The mint is not out anything. The biggest headache for the mint ( or fullfillment center) is the returns because the mint did not strike you a perfect 70 coin the first time.

I am self employeed and run my own business. My biggest problem is finding employees that are willing to work and SHOW up on time. Finding people that are willing to work and take pride in the work gets harder each passing year. 7 men have stopped on the jobsite that i was working on over the last 7 days looking for work. They were aged 18 to 25 NONE of them had a high school diploma. Most did not have a car or truck. 2 had ankle monitors, 3 were on probation. The type of jobs i do does not require a high school diploma. I am just amazed at how many kids never finish high school.

Just try to get anything done nowadays is almost comical. Just today i went to get my sons car windows tinted. 1st stop the tech was sick today, 2nd stop, they wanted to do it tommorow. ( the shop was empty, maybe they had sometime coming in shortly who knows). The 3rd place would not answer the phone.

70md · April 22, 2009 11:30AM

Whoa- people are agreeing with me - look out!!! Thank you! I was beginning to think the world had devolved into this acceptance of mediocrity and incompetence. Pennyannie, I have to say I understand your pain. I hired a girl to help my wife around the house- $10 hr cash- great deal considering she was working at subway, getting only $7 and less after taxes and only 25-28 hours week. Promised her 30-40 hours. She shows up late, is on the internet, has to be directed to do everything, shows excessive incompetence, and then starts offering out her religious beliefs about taxes and how she wants to claim everything I'm giving her and could I pay her medicare and social security taxes. Spells dentist, denist, well you get the idea. I used to think the twenty-something manager was mean to her underlings but recognized very early on the massive incompetence, lack of direction, and pay me for just saying I'm around mentality. Excuse me, but the mint can kiss my *** and anything I can do to save a dollar at their expense I will. There isn't even a feedback or contact us by email form on their website!!! Why!? Well of course- they don't want to hear it. Just look at the stupid form they sent regarding feedback on their UHR- couldn't complete it if you wanted to!!! "Gee boss, everything looks good here!" LOL!!!!

RayNY2E · April 22, 2009 11:45AM

What I Can't figure out is Why do they Now ship by Fedex who in Turn Hand Off the Packages to USPS to Deliver?? The first time this Happened I had 3 Tracking Numbers for one order and Was confused and the Mint Customer service People were of No Help. They did'nt even Know what I Was talking about. What a Total Mess. Oh yeah, i had 10 Silver Proof Sets left on the Sidewalk last time around.Needless to say i never got them,I Had to go through Flea Bay to get them. Ray in Florida..

70md · April 23, 2009 12:25AM

It gets better! My friend orders a UHR 10 days ago at my request. The ship date says 6/24 and not in stock. My item has been order more than a week prior and shows being in stock and reserved. His arrived yesterday! Gosh- love the government! No rhyme or reason!!!!!!

70md · April 23, 2009 8:03AM

I should state though- no book with the UHR. Tough to make those books I guess.

droopyd · April 23, 2009 8:39AM

<< she wants to claim everything I'm giving her and could I pay her medicare and social security taxes. >>

You should be aware of tax regulations regarding household help -- they kick in at relatively low levels.

For example, a household employee paid more than $1,700 in calendar year 2009 must have FICA taxes withheld by the employer. Unemployment taxes kick in if your total household salaries are $1,000 or more in any calendar quarter.

Just in case you want a job as a cabinet secretary or something!

The latest mint fiasco UPDATED!!!!

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