Big e-bay question?
crazyhounddog
Posts: 14,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
Has anybody on this forum ever bought a coin off e-bay with a return policy that states " 7 day return as long as the coin is not removed from it's holder"? Well I did and the coin looked okay when it was in the cardboard flip, but when I took it out , it looks like a piece of crap!! So I e-mailed the seller and told him it looks more au than bu and he said just mail it back and I will refund you , so I say okay~ but I didn't tell him I took it out of the holder
I wonder what's going to happen now?
I wonder what's going to happen now? The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
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Comments
<< <i>Has anybody on this forum ever bought a coin off e-bay with a return policy that states " 7 day return as long as the coin is not removed from it's holder"? Well I did and the coin looked okay when it was in the cardboard flip, but when I took it out , it looks like a piece of crap!! So I e-mailed the seller and told him it looks more au than bu and he said just mail it back and I will refund you , so I say okay~ but I didn't tell him I took it out of the holder
If he doesn't take it back file a "Item not as described" Paypal dispute
<< <i>If he doesn't take it back file a "Item not as described" Paypal dispute >>
It's always nice letting someone else pay for your mistakes I guess. Personal responsibility is a thing of the past. It's a shame...
<< <i>I can't believe it's that different in the holder and out of the holder. No offense, but I wouldn't refund your money. >>
Oh yes you would.
<< <i>I can't believe it's that different in the holder and out of the holder. No offense, but I wouldn't refund your money. >>
I couldn't see the hair lines and the a-t very well under the cello.
<< <i>Oh yes you would. >>
Um, no I wouldn't. Let the guy complain to Paypal. He didn't follow my return policy. Even if I lose the claim, I'd take the negative and leave the guy a very negative postive feedback.
<< <i>I couldn't see the hair lines and the a-t very well under the cello. >>
If there was any question you should have returned it before opening it. That's Buying on eBay lesson #1
<< <i>Was the coin described as being BU? >>
Yep, choice bu. But the coin was au and cleaned with some funny looking color that was hard to see in the flip.
<< <i>
<< <i>Was the coin described as being BU? >>
Yep, choice bu. But the coin was au and cleaned with some funny looking color that was hard to see in the flip. >>
+1 for MadMarty's response.
<< <i>If you expect to be able to return a coin after you remonve it from the holder, why are you bidding on auctions where this is explicitly prohibited by the seller's return policy? >>
Most of the time I would let something like this go! But, for the price I payed for this coin " that is not as discribed" I can't!! The seller LIED about the coins condition!!
Or, you can just hope he doesnt notice that you removed it.
Question, did you damage the old flip during removal of the coin? If not, why not try to reuse it?
Ive removed tons of coins from cardboard 2x2s and it can be done without damge.
People will switch coins, even buy an ugly toned coin cheap, and when they try to ckean it and there is not
a gem MS65 underneath, they try to return it!
<< <i>First, Id contact the seller and explain the issue. They may understand, or they may not. Either way, youre being upfront and honest.
Or, you can just hope he doesnt notice that you removed it.
Question, did you damage the old flip during removal of the coin? If not, why not try to reuse it?
Ive removed tons of coins from cardboard 2x2s and it can be done without damge. >>
First off the seller is NOT being honest! That's one. Two, I did put it back in the flip, but the flip got bent a little. And Three , I have bought very expensive coins from him in the past , but none like this...
<< <i> I have bought very expensive coins from him in the past , but none like this... >>
If you have a relationship with the dealer you should have been honest with him. Chances are he would have remembered you and worked with you since you were a good customer. Now you're the guy who tried to pull a fast one. Don't count on buying any more coins from that dealer...
If it's a $2000 coin, then the "If you remove it, you bought it" might hold water in a coin switch situation.
<< <i>Most of the time I would let something like this go! But, for the price I payed for this coin " that is not as discribed" I can't!! The seller LIED about the coins condition!! >>
So your position is that it's okay to ignore the return policy when it's convenient for you? Now, the seller will most likely be expecting to get the coin back in the holder but you sent it back without telling him you removed it- rather a lie of omission, wouldn't you think? Why didn't you tell him?
If the seller knowingly misdescribed the coin (not that there's any proof of this at this point), I don't see either party occupying the high moral ground here. But then, that's just me...
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<< <i> I have bought very expensive coins from him in the past , but none like this... >>
If you have a relationship with the dealer you should have been honest with him. Chances are he would have remembered you and worked with you since you were a good customer. Now you're the guy who tried to pull a fast one. Don't count on buying any more coins from that dealer... >>
I'm not! But just to make it clear, if I keep the coin ,I take a $200.00 loss. Now , the coin was described as bu and it's not. The coin has hair lines I could not see through the cello. And the color was there to hide the hair lines. Are you going to take the moral high ground and tell him you took it out of the flip??
<< <i>Are you going to take the moral high ground and tell him you took it out of the flip?? >>
Yep. Especially since I've had previous dealings with the seller. And I sure as $hit wouldn't be bringing this up on the forums. What if the guy is a member here??
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<< <i>Are you going to take the moral high ground and tell him you took it out of the flip?? >>
Yep. Especially since I've had previous dealings with the seller. And I sure as $hit wouldn't be bringing this up on the forums. What if the guy is a member here??
I don't care!!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>I don't like your action regarding asking for a refund without telling the dealer you took the coin out of the holder. You should fix that omission first, then let the exchange play out after that point. >>
So, I should take the moral high ground with a guy that's trying to scam me??
<< <i>But just to make it clear, if I keep the coin ,I take a $200.00 loss. Now , the coin was described as bu and it's not. The coin has hair lines I could not see through the cello. And the color was there to hide the hair lines. Are you going to take the moral high ground and tell him you took it out of the flip?? >>
You have got to be kidding me. "moral high ground"?! This country is screwed.
1. You purchased from him the past. You should know his policies.
2. You removed the coin from the flip which constituted ownership.
3. You got buyers remorse AFTER you removed the coin from the flip and have some sort of selfcontrived moral quandary over what to do.
Now you actually have the audacity to call telling the truth: the "moral high ground". And to come here looking for some support over your "dilemma".
It is your opinion against his on the condition of the coin. Listen up pal... if you are over the age of 14, you DONT deserve a pat on the back for doing the right thing.
Moral high ground indeed...
<< <i>Hey Doh! are you the seller??? >>
Nah, if I were I'd gladly own up to it.
Oh and very well said, Pheh
<< <i>
<< <i>But just to make it clear, if I keep the coin ,I take a $200.00 loss. Now , the coin was described as bu and it's not. The coin has hair lines I could not see through the cello. And the color was there to hide the hair lines. Are you going to take the moral high ground and tell him you took it out of the flip?? >>
You have got to be kidding me. "moral high ground"?! This country is screwed.
1. You purchased from him the past. You should know his policies.
2. You removed the coin from the flip which constituted ownership.
3. You got buyers remorse AFTER you removed the coin from the flip and have some sort of selfcontrived moral quandary over what to do.
Now you actually have the audacity to call telling the truth: the "moral high ground". And to come here looking for some support over your "dilemma".
It is your opinion against his on the condition of the coin. Listen up pal... if you are over the age of 14, you DONT deserve a pat on the back for doing the right thing.
Moral high ground indeed... >>
I think you might be forgetting one thing,$200.00 !! This is a SCAM folks!! Okay I took it out. The seller is not the one getting screwed here folks ,IT"S ME!!!!!
<< <i>Link to the auction? I'd be interested in seeing the pics and reading the description. >>
b No I haven't
c Your shouldn't have taken it out
d you should have told that to him before returning
The coin was bought when it was removed from the holder. The buyer doesn't deserve a refund. There is no moral high ground in the buyers argument. If there was any hint of doubt when seeing the coin it should have been returned as is immediately. Finding the coin worse than you thought after taking it out of the holder is an obvious risk to buying raw stuff on ebay. It's a bit ridiculous to assert the seller is trying to cheat you. Maybe yes, maybe no. Did you not understand the return policy you agreed to as stated in the auction?
<< <i>This is a SCAM folks!! Okay I took it out. The seller is not the one getting screwed here folks ,IT"S ME!!!!! >>
Why would a seller who you've had positive experiences with in the past try to screw you now? Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, the seller thinks the coin is nice and is just wrong about it? No two people see the same coin in the same way you know. Sounds like an honest mistake to me.
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<< <i>
<< <i> I have bought very expensive coins from him in the past , but none like this... >>
If you have a relationship with the dealer you should have been honest with him. Chances are he would have remembered you and worked with you since you were a good customer. Now you're the guy who tried to pull a fast one. Don't count on buying any more coins from that dealer... >>
I'm not! But just to make it clear, if I keep the coin ,I take a $200.00 loss. Now , the coin was described as bu and it's not. The coin has hair lines I could not see through the cello. And the color was there to hide the hair lines. Are you going to take the moral high ground and tell him you took it out of the flip?? >>
Here is the issue. BU coins do have hairlines. In fact, the PCGS Grading Guide and the ANACS Grading Guide allow for varying degrees of Hairlines from MS60 to MS64, maybe even MS65.
So, I don't see any valid reason for a claim based on the BU basis alone.
<< <i>The coin was bought when it was removed from the holder. The buyer doesn't deserve a refund. There is no moral high ground in the buyers argument. If there was any hint of doubt when seeing the coin it should have been returned as is immediately. Finding the coin worse than you thought after taking it out of the holder is an obvious risk to buying raw stuff on ebay. It's a bit ridiculous to assert the seller is trying to cheat you. Maybe yes, maybe no. Did you not understand the return policy you agreed to as stated in the auction? >>
Typical seller response. Hey everbody it's OKAY to scam, there are people that don't know the difference. Is that what I'm hearing? What a bunch of BS!!! Pretty good deal if your a seller!!
> it's OKAY to scam, there are people that don't know the difference
You are obviously one of them. The more you defend your actions the worse you look. If I was an ebay seller I would block you for sure.
<< <i>It's a reasonable policy, the seller is just trying to protect himself, why should he take it back now???
Because it's not what he said it was??
<< <i>Hey everbody it's OKAY to scam, there are people that don't know the difference. Is that what I'm hearing? What a bunch of BS!!! >>
Is it okay to send a coin back without telling the seller that you violated the terms of his return policy? Why (rhetorically) isn't that a scam, too? Why (non-rhetorically) didn't you tell the seller you removed the coin before returning it?
<< <i>> it's OKAY to scam, there are people that don't know the difference
You are obviously one of them. The more you defend your actions the worse you look. If I was an ebay seller I would block you for sure. >>
Your full of crap!!
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<< <i>It's a reasonable policy, the seller is just trying to protect himself, why should he take it back now???
Because it's not what he said it was?? >>
On the other side of the fence, if you removed the coin from the sealed flip, how do we know that you didn't replace the GeMBU coin with a hairlined DOG?
> Your full of crap!!
Thanks. I kind of figured that's your level of functioning. You obviously needed a learning experience. Well, you got it. Too bad you can't figure it out.
Its my first time saying that!
<< <i>100
Its my first time saying that!
but we're not even halfway there.
<< <i>I think you might be forgetting one thing,$200.00 !! This is a SCAM folks!! Okay I took it out. The seller is not the one getting screwed here folks ,IT"S ME!!!!! >>
I'm not forgetting anything. What is missing here is a concept which you have obviously never learned.
Your actions alone led to the situation in which you find yourself. What you need to do is take responsibility for your own actions instead of whining and crying like a five year old who can't understand why it is no ones fault but her own that her ice cream fell onto the sidewalk.
YOUR SITUATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CONDITION OF THE COIN. PERIOD. YOU DECIDED TO OWN THE COIN THE SECOND YOU TOOK IT OUT OF THE FLIP.
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<< <i>I don't like your action regarding asking for a refund without telling the dealer you took the coin out of the holder. You should fix that omission first, then let the exchange play out after that point. >>
So, I should take the moral high ground with a guy that's trying to scam me?? >>
The worse the other person's morals are, the more important it is that you take the moral high ground.
<< <i>> Your full of crap!!
Thanks. I kind of figured that's your level of functioning. You obviously needed a learning experience. Well, you got it. Too bad you can't figure it out. >>
That's it I'm done , Is this what coin dealing is all about, just lay down and take it when you get ripped?? It will be very obvious I took the coin out of the flip when he sees it. It won't be a question. And I won't deny I took it out if the seller asks me. But the coin was not as discribed and cleaned and I could not tell when it was in the flip.
I know for a fact that some of you have taken a coin out of the flip and returned it , with out telling the seller. There are ways to do that and it's done all of the time. I'm just the one that's talking about it at the moment. I am not dis-honest. And if the seller asks me if I took it out I will tell him. But some of you on this board really make me sick!!
> I know for a fact
Coin listed as Choice BU
Return Policy clearly stated; don't remove the coin from the flip or its yours
OP removed coin and found questionable toning and hairlines indicating cleaning; at best the coin is an AU, not BU.
OP has prior relationship with seller, having bought from him before.
Under the terms of the sale, if you remove it from the holder, its yours. OP wants to return AFTER removing, which is a clear violation of the terms.
My advice would have been contact seller, say that after I removed it from the holder the cleaning became evident. Remind him of prior dealings. Find something about the coin that is evident in the pictures to show that it is clearly the same coin and return it.
To not come clean and say that you removed the coin is deceptive.
Now, the question becomes, do you (OP) believe that the seller was deceptive in his listing? Does he have a history of being deceptive? What about your prior dealings? Were they all fine?
Yes, you are talking about potentially taking a $200 hit, but does the risk of losing $200 obviate your moral obligation to deal honestly with the seller?
If I was the seller, I would likely just do the return if I had prior good dealings with the OP and the OP could point out a feature to prove its the same coin. Now, if the OP sent it back and it was clear that the coin was removed, and I was not sure that it was not switched, it might be a different story.
Too many folks assume that ebay sellers are out to screw us over. These are the same folks who revel in cherry-picking a dealer or ebay seller who did not realize what they were selling. Frankly, I can't see how the mylar in a 2x2 could conceal hairlines or AT. Maybe the OP is right and there was something that prevented it from being seen. Who knows. The bottom line is that the OP has not conformed to the terms of the sale.
Now, that said, we are talking about ebay, where sellers get screwed all the time. Maybe the OP can file a not as described claim and get it overturned. If you can justify yourself in not taking the "moral high ground" to save yourself a couple hundred bucks, then go for it. I would still recommend that you talk to the seller and be honest with him. How would you react if the roles were reversed? What if you were the seller and your policy said that if the coin was removed it could not be returned? Would you have accepted the return or would you be here posting about the buyer to block because he doesn't read the auctions or perform in accordance with your posted terms?