In other news: YOU STARTED A THREAD? Woohoo! Congrats and welcome! Hope you hang out with the forum folks. Your knowledge of copper (and nice inventory on your site) will be a nice boon to the forum!
<< <i>"Two in the chest and one in the head " I belive gun control is hitting what you aim at!!!! >>
Sounds like just punishment for someone stealing a $10 coin out of a bargain bin. >>
ziggy29---Did you really think that rjsriv was being serious?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>ziggy29---Please tell us what you would do if you caught someone stealing your coins at a show. >>
Depends on the circumstances. At the very least I'd try to get them detained, even if it was a small value item and I couldn't be at the trial or arraignment. That would at least put a scare in them. And if I were local, I'd pursue it to the end.
But suggesting blowing someone away with a gun, possibly over a small purchase and likely with many other people milling around nearby on the bourse, is simply ridiculous.
Happy now? >>
Are you sure you wouldn't start a legal defense fund for the perp?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>obviously, the thieves are the product of a difficult family environment while they were younger. They probably were formula-fed babies, their mothers shunning them and not offering breast milk. They have had no opportunities like "the rich" get, so they just had to become thieves. They are just unfortunate products of our society. I recommend referring them to local and federal government agencies so they can feed off those teats. >>
This type of comment might be welcome on Rush Limbaugh, but is not welcome or helpful here.
To the topic at hand---prosecutions are very rare. It is often impossible for the dealer to prove he or she owned the item.
Usually the thief is photographed and told to stay away from coin shows for life, and the photos are circulated to bourse chairmen all over the country by "back channels," similar to how the casino industry handles cheats.
These people ARE dealt with, but not in a public manner.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
Theft at coin shows can be problematic to prove, and even if you can, it's more problematic to prosecute, especially if you aren't from the area and/or it's a relatively small amount involved. As Frank said, dealers and show promoters sometimes circulate pictures, etc. but frankly that's the exception rather than the rule. Circulating-cell-phone-picture story notwithstanding, I've yet to see anyone with anything resembling a comprehensive list of pics of known coin show thieves circulating at a show, and have seen alleged thieves show up at subsequent shows after getting the boot for supposed theft at a previous show. No one, it seems, has time or inclination to enforce anything; it's mostly reactive after something's already happened.
A more important issue IMO is the potential of getting hit before or after the show. Many guys get hit by someone who follows them home, at/in their hotel, or as they arrive in the early AM.
Re: firearms...actually, you might be very surprised to learn how many dealers are packing at a given coin show.
<< <i>To the topic at hand---prosecutions are very rare. It is often impossible for the dealer to prove he or she owned the item.
Usually the thief is photographed and told to stay away from coin shows for life, and the photos are circulated to bourse chairmen all over the country by "back channels," similar to how the casino industry handles cheats.
These people ARE dealt with, but not in a public manner. >>
Thanks for the pertinent contribution to this thread Frank! (edit- And you too Telephoto1)
Most of the other replys are either "Let me suck up to the new OP" replies, or "Ain't I a macho MF?" replies.
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
The absolute worst show I ever had was a little club show about an hour south of me... bought all of $150 worth of coins during setup, there only ended up being about 6 dealers that showed up because of a combination of horrendous weather and another much better show nearby on the same day (unknown to us obviously or we'd have gone there, we thought it was scheduled for the following weekend). We sat around for 3 hours before pulling the plug, sold $12 worth of cheap stuff over the counter to one of the perhaps 10 people that came through the door, and someone stole a Peace Dollar worth $20 while I was in the bathroom. On the way home I hit a moon crater pothole camouflaged by water that bent a tie rod and necessitated $800 worth of front end work on my SUV. I defy any dealer to top that story.
I would think about reducing the chances of it happening again.
I have seen dealer tables with one or two people showing multiple coins to 3, 4, or 5 clients, with many coins on the glass and too much going on to focus on everything. Great for business, but I think these people are the most vulnerable.
Many dealers are so security smart they may appear to be rude, but they are just being realistic.
Thank you all for your replies (and warm welcomes). I am quite surprised at the attention this question got, and was entertained reading all the responses. If you want to keep reading, here's the full story on my thief. At the Bakersfield show, I watched this guy going through my lowerend coins in notebooks, he took out a few coins but I got distracted and didn't see him put them back in the books. I then noticed him move to the table across and down the aisle from me, so I decided to watch him - he couldn't see me watching him. Soon, I noticed him looking around suspiciously, then he pulled some coins out of that dealer's notebooks and dropped them in his other hand which was on his lap, then pocketed them. So I called security who had him empty his pockets, and sure enough, he had some of my coins and the other dealer's coins. My flips are easily recognizable as being mine since I have a distinctive way of marking my flips. I told the thief and the security guard that I was pressing charges, even though my coins were only valued at $40 and even though I lived about 300 miles away. So the security guard called the local police, who hancuffed the guy, took statements, then wrote the thief a citation to appeal, and released him. The other dealer declined to press charges since he said I was already pressing so he didn't to, even though I tried to talk him into also pressing charges if only to support my complaint. But he did take the thief's photo on his cell phone and promised to forward it to me.
The thief begged me to talk to him and tried to get out of it, saying he would pay 3 times the value of the coins, but I wouldn't hear of it - I agree and feel strongly that thieves should be prosecuted, or at least arrested, no matter what the value of the coins or the inconvenience to the dealer, otherwise, what's to keep them from coming back? If I had this happen to me on the east coast, I don't think I would do things differently, even considering the small value. I would want the guy arrested, have to be booked or whatever they do. Then, down the road, after the guy had to suffer a lot of inconvenience and hopefully expense, if it went to trial, I would have to decide at that time whether it was feasible for me to appear in court or drop the charges. If I could, I would fly to attend the trial, even if it was more expensive for me than the coins were worth.
So fast forward a few weeks to the Santa Clara show... I rant into the dealer who had taken the Bakersfield thief's photo and I we were working on getting the thief's photo forwarded to me so I could circulate it to other dealers. Just then, the dealer's brother comes up to me and tells me we don't have to transfer the photo because I could take my own photo since the Bakersfield thief had just walked in the door of the Santa Clara show! I couldn't believe it! So we notified security that this guy was a known thief, but they were tied up with another thief they had just caught and couldn't watch my thief right then. So I decided to check him out to see what kind of coins he was looking at, and to let the dealer know to watch him. I found him in the back of the room and stood behind him for just a few minutes when I saw him shove several casino chips into his pocket. I then told the dealer out loud that he needed to watch this guy since he had stolen from me before. I asked the thief what he was doing here, and he simply said he was buying coins. So he took the chips he had in his hands and bought them from the dealer. I then followed him as he wound his way up to the front of the show to leave.
I received some extent of satisfaction because, as he walked up a few aisles, I pointed to the thief and told all the dealers and collectors within ear shot to take a good look at this guy because he had stolen coins from me. This lasted for quite a while since the show was crowded and it took him quite a while to get to the front door. At the door, I advised the security guard that I suspected this guy of stealing coins and wanted his pockets checked. The security guard asked him to empty his pockets, and after first refusing to do so and being threatened with arrest, he reluctantly did so. Sure enough, there were the chips I had seen him pocket. The chips he purchased were in a plastic bag. They took the thief away to the security office. They then asked the casino chip dealer to identify the chips, but all he would say is that they "looked" like his chips but he wouldn't testify in court that they were his since the chips were lose and not in any identifiable holder. Even though I witnessed this guy take these chips, security eventually released the thief because the dealer would not press charges. They did take the thief's photo and personal information and he is banned from attending that show. One of the other security guards told me later that, if it was up to him, he would have had the guy arrested, booked, and jailed, even if the charges would be dropped later. But he said since the dealer who was the victim (I was only a witness) wouldn't press charges, the convention center security said they didn't want to pursue it. I was told later what I should have done was watch him, or have someone else watch him, longer and let him steal larger amounts from more dealers, then one or more of the other dealers might have pressed charges and they would have hauled this guy away.
On Monday, I called the D.A. on the Bakersfield case and let her know what happened at the Santa Clara show but, since the thief wasn't arrested, it wouldn't really help my case. However, they were considering a plea and she said she would take this new episode into consideration. So that is something, I guess.
Sorry for the long story, but I thought you might like to know the full details on this petty klepto. I am doing my best to prevent thieves from taking my coins and am trying to let other dealers know at least about this thief, but I have to say it is disconcerting when dealers simply let thieves pay for the coins and send them on their way. The thieves know this, and that's why they bring plenty of money with them on their thieving expeditions, just so they can buy their way out of it. Any way, thank you again for all your posts, it really helps to know so many of you out there would at least want this guy "taken care of."
The real crime here is our "justice" system nowadays. We are a civilized nation now and some of the rough justice of the wild west was a little too rough, even unjust at times. But you tell me that going through with charging a thief of stealing a few hundred dollars worth of coins and having to pay a few thousand to do it is just.
If i were a coin thief i'd much rather take my chances nowadays than 100 years ago.
A lie told often enough becomes the truth. ~Vladimir Lenin
It depends on the age and whether they were caught prior. We had a situation at the small New Market, MD show 6-8 months ago where a 14 y/o stole several coins. I took it personal and retrieved the coins from the kid's father; who was very helpful and assurred me the boy had never been in prior trouble. the father dealt with the punishment and we did not press charges, but would if it happened again. He is no longer welcome at the show and most dealers know his name and face, so they watch for him at other shows.
As for adults or somebody caught previously, we press charges. If they get away with it, they will continue to steal, as there are no consequences to their actions.
Fall 2026 National Battlefield Coin Show September 11 & 12, 2026 at the Eisenhower Hotel Ballroom, Gettysburg, PA. Early Bird passes Thursday September 10, 2026 from Noon to 5pm $25 each. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
Comments
In other news: YOU STARTED A THREAD? Woohoo! Congrats and welcome! Hope you hang out with the forum folks. Your knowledge of copper (and nice inventory on your site) will be a nice boon to the forum!
Bob
<< <i>
<< <i>"Two in the chest and one in the head " I belive gun control is hitting what you aim at!!!! >>
Sounds like just punishment for someone stealing a $10 coin out of a bargain bin. >>
ziggy29---Did you really think that rjsriv was being serious?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>ziggy29---Please tell us what you would do if you caught someone stealing your coins at a show. >>
Depends on the circumstances. At the very least I'd try to get them detained, even if it was a small value item and I couldn't be at the trial or arraignment. That would at least put a scare in them. And if I were local, I'd pursue it to the end.
But suggesting blowing someone away with a gun, possibly over a small purchase and likely with many other people milling around nearby on the bourse, is simply ridiculous.
Happy now? >>
Are you sure you wouldn't start a legal defense fund for the perp?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>obviously, the thieves are the product of a difficult family environment while they were younger. They probably were formula-fed babies, their mothers shunning them and not offering breast milk. They have had no opportunities like "the rich" get, so they just had to become thieves. They are just unfortunate products of our society. I recommend referring them to local and federal government agencies so they can feed off those teats. >>
This type of comment might be welcome on Rush Limbaugh, but is not welcome or helpful here.
To the topic at hand---prosecutions are very rare. It is often impossible for the dealer to prove he or she owned the item.
Usually the thief is photographed and told to stay away from coin shows for life, and the photos are circulated to bourse chairmen all over the country
by "back channels," similar to how the casino industry handles cheats.
These people ARE dealt with, but not in a public manner.
<< <i>
<< <i>"Two in the chest and one in the head " I belive gun control is hitting what you aim at!!!! >>
Sounds like just punishment for someone stealing a $10 coin out of a bargain bin. >>
Theft at coin shows can be problematic to prove, and even if you can, it's more problematic to prosecute, especially if you aren't from the area and/or it's a relatively small amount involved. As Frank said, dealers and show promoters sometimes circulate pictures, etc. but frankly that's the exception rather than the rule. Circulating-cell-phone-picture story notwithstanding, I've yet to see anyone with anything resembling a comprehensive list of pics of known coin show thieves circulating at a show, and have seen alleged thieves show up at subsequent shows after getting the boot for supposed theft at a previous show. No one, it seems, has time or inclination to enforce anything; it's mostly reactive after something's already happened.
A more important issue IMO is the potential of getting hit before or after the show. Many guys get hit by someone who follows them home, at/in their hotel, or as they arrive in the early AM.
Re: firearms...actually, you might be very surprised to learn how many dealers are packing at a given coin show.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>To the topic at hand---prosecutions are very rare. It is often impossible for the dealer to prove he or she owned the item.
Usually the thief is photographed and told to stay away from coin shows for life, and the photos are circulated to bourse chairmen all over the country
by "back channels," similar to how the casino industry handles cheats.
These people ARE dealt with, but not in a public manner. >>
Thanks for the pertinent contribution to this thread Frank! (edit- And you too Telephoto1)
Most of the other replys are either "Let me suck up to the new OP" replies, or "Ain't I a macho MF?" replies.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Robert
I have seen dealer tables with one or two people showing multiple coins to 3, 4, or 5 clients, with many coins on the glass and too much going on to focus on everything. Great for business, but I think these people are the most vulnerable.
Many dealers are so security smart they may appear to be rude, but they are just being realistic.
The thief begged me to talk to him and tried to get out of it, saying he would pay 3 times the value of the coins, but I wouldn't hear of it - I agree and feel strongly that thieves should be prosecuted, or at least arrested, no matter what the value of the coins or the inconvenience to the dealer, otherwise, what's to keep them from coming back? If I had this happen to me on the east coast, I don't think I would do things differently, even considering the small value. I would want the guy arrested, have to be booked or whatever they do. Then, down the road, after the guy had to suffer a lot of inconvenience and hopefully expense, if it went to trial, I would have to decide at that time whether it was feasible for me to appear in court or drop the charges. If I could, I would fly to attend the trial, even if it was more expensive for me than the coins were worth.
So fast forward a few weeks to the Santa Clara show... I rant into the dealer who had taken the Bakersfield thief's photo and I we were working on getting the thief's photo forwarded to me so I could circulate it to other dealers. Just then, the dealer's brother comes up to me and tells me we don't have to transfer the photo because I could take my own photo since the Bakersfield thief had just walked in the door of the Santa Clara show! I couldn't believe it! So we notified security that this guy was a known thief, but they were tied up with another thief they had just caught and couldn't watch my thief right then. So I decided to check him out to see what kind of coins he was looking at, and to let the dealer know to watch him. I found him in the back of the room and stood behind him for just a few minutes when I saw him shove several casino chips into his pocket. I then told the dealer out loud that he needed to watch this guy since he had stolen from me before. I asked the thief what he was doing here, and he simply said he was buying coins. So he took the chips he had in his hands and bought them from the dealer. I then followed him as he wound his way up to the front of the show to leave.
I received some extent of satisfaction because, as he walked up a few aisles, I pointed to the thief and told all the dealers and collectors within ear shot to take a good look at this guy because he had stolen coins from me. This lasted for quite a while since the show was crowded and it took him quite a while to get to the front door. At the door, I advised the security guard that I suspected this guy of stealing coins and wanted his pockets checked. The security guard asked him to empty his pockets, and after first refusing to do so and being threatened with arrest, he reluctantly did so. Sure enough, there were the chips I had seen him pocket. The chips he purchased were in a plastic bag. They took the thief away to the security office. They then asked the casino chip dealer to identify the chips, but all he would say is that they "looked" like his chips but he wouldn't testify in court that they were his since the chips were lose and not in any identifiable holder. Even though I witnessed this guy take these chips, security eventually released the thief because the dealer would not press charges. They did take the thief's photo and personal information and he is banned from attending that show. One of the other security guards told me later that, if it was up to him, he would have had the guy arrested, booked, and jailed, even if the charges would be dropped later. But he said since the dealer who was the victim (I was only a witness) wouldn't press charges, the convention center security said they didn't want to pursue it. I was told later what I should have done was watch him, or have someone else watch him, longer and let him steal larger amounts from more dealers, then one or more of the other dealers might have pressed charges and they would have hauled this guy away.
On Monday, I called the D.A. on the Bakersfield case and let her know what happened at the Santa Clara show but, since the thief wasn't arrested, it wouldn't really help my case. However, they were considering a plea and she said she would take this new episode into consideration. So that is something, I guess.
Sorry for the long story, but I thought you might like to know the full details on this petty klepto. I am doing my best to prevent thieves from taking my coins and am trying to let other dealers know at least about this thief, but I have to say it is disconcerting when dealers simply let thieves pay for the coins and send them on their way. The thieves know this, and that's why they bring plenty of money with them on their thieving expeditions, just so they can buy their way out of it. Any way, thank you again for all your posts, it really helps to know so many of you out there would at least want this guy "taken care of."
The Penny Lady®
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Wow.
It is a shame that the thieves are so bold.
If i were a coin thief i'd much rather take my chances nowadays than 100 years ago.
As for adults or somebody caught previously, we press charges. If they get away with it, they will continue to steal, as there are no consequences to their actions.