Charlotte $5 Gold for under $500, bargain or blunder?

STONE · March 18, 2009 11:09AM

Although I've always thought C and D gold was really cool, it has always been out of my price range, more often WAY out of my price range......UNTIL NOW!!!
Well sure C & D gold has been out of my price range, but that's because those coins are/almost problem free. That's why I'm still going to wait for my C and D gold for now

CharlotteDude, RYK, Longacre and other collectors, hows your take on the below piece?

fc · March 18, 2009 11:11AM

cleaned, damaged, and otherwise worth around 300 to me.
500 would be a mistake in my mind even though it does have the
details of a 25-30.

so i am thinking in terms of paying what a dealer would pay because
i think i could find a chump to pay 500-550.

I cannot imagine someone paying more for it... unless they look at
the PCGS price guide for the date/mint and convince themself it is
a tougher date and put it a strong buy price for it. sigh

If you want a C mint half eagle.. do yourself a favor and save up 1500-2000 and be oh so patient.

TwoSides2aCoin · March 18, 2009 11:14AM

Not for my money. But, it's gold and genuine is genuine.

mrearlygold · March 18, 2009 11:18AM

Not for me at that price. That kind of material is VERY difficult to resell. Even in the case of a 61-D like the one recently sold at a heritage auction. Showed no date. While I certainly realize it's a great rarity and I've owned a few of them, coins that show no date just sit in inventory for a long time.

Now if you are purchasing good material it doesn't matter so much that it sits a while. A) you enjoy owning it and

if it's a good coin it'll go up in value hopefully so it turns out to be a winner no matter what. But when they look like that one , nah.

Then again, to each his own

Placid · March 18, 2009 11:22AM

Is it certified? The denticles seem a little odd.

DaveG · March 18, 2009 11:24AM

Several years ago, I bought a problem example of a coin I really wanted.

When I bought it I told myself that I could overlook the problem (a big rim ding), but after I had owned it for a day or two, whenever I looked at the coin, all I could see was the rim ding.

Fortunately, the dealer had told me I could return the coin, so I returned it a week after I bought it.

I've never regretted returning the coin, even though I haven't seen an affordable example of that coin since.

My advice: don't buy a problem coin, wait or stretch for a nice example if you have to. A nice coin is worth what you have to pay for it. A problem coin is a problem, no matter how little you've paid for it.

savoyspecial · March 18, 2009 11:25AM

it appears genuine......but it is an ugly coin and will always be an ugly coin, i would pass......mrearlygold is right, very tough to resell (if that's your motive)

STONE · March 18, 2009 11:26AM

It's an ANACS 30 details (scratched)

doh · March 18, 2009 11:32AM

I'd buy it at melt... Scratches on the two most important parts of the coin are killer

CharlotteDude · March 18, 2009 11:59AM

Not the kind of coin I'd recommend for inclusion in one's collection, unless you could purchase it very close to bullion cost. It does have the fact it's a strong mintmark variety going for it. It's a stretch to say the coin's been cleaned... surfaces & color look nice enough, judging from the pics, but oh, those scratches are hideous. I'd pass.

'dude

fc · March 18, 2009 12:20PM

<< It's a stretch to say the coin's been cleaned... surfaces & color look nice enough, judging from the pics,
'dude >>

so if it has a gold color the surfaces and color look nice enough?
please...

the coin is circulated down to vf30 details and has a few minor specks
of dirt remaining in the usual spots where you need a dentist pic to
remove it. One would expect an awesome patina from all that wear,
dirt in every crack from the filthy hands people had in the 1850s,
and an overall darker look which as usual only remains in the hard
to get at areas. Otherwise it was cleanedddddddddddddddddd.
Have you not seen enough pics that looked like that only to get the
coin in your hand and realize you were bamboozled? I have!

i am not quite sure what people think original surfaces on a circulated
coin should be anymore around here. sorry to state it so bluntly but
go take a gander at that original coin thread to see the sorry state
of collectors understanding what orignal, patina, and unmessed with
means. 1 out of 5 seems original while the rest decided to just post a coin.

oi. i have been around antiques too long to allow such talk to keep
passing over and over.

say it with me folks! "most old coins have been cleaned!"
now keep saying it over and over and over. coin collectors cannot
resist messing with coins.

291fifth · March 18, 2009 12:27PM

$500 = blunder.

fc · March 18, 2009 12:30PM

for goodness sakes.. i had to look through 100 C half eagles in 25-35
to find just one that has a patina to it. this may give you an idea how
many have been scrubbed right up. It is like so many coins have been
cleaned, 150+ year old coins, that people see them and begin to forget
what original 150 year old antiques normally look like! Life was dirty
then. Oil cans, pants so caked with sweat and mud they would stand
on their own, working in the fields, you name it!

Original gold coins.. with a patina.. in circulated grades are the rarest
thing i can think of right now. Rant over.

of course.. if you think this is normal.. i can do nothing for you!

feel free to browse heritage and witness the played with coins.
http://coins.ha.com/common/search_results.php?N=51+790+231+397+1579+64

robkool · March 18, 2009 2:22PM

Hey Winston... Don't waste your $$$ on that damaged gold piece. For maybe $200~250 more & a little patience, you can find a much nicer piece.

RYK · March 18, 2009 2:29PM

In the past, I have purchased low-end examples of coins that were expensive, and it was always a mistake. It did not take long for me to tire of the coins, and they always were later sold for a significant loss. If I cannot afford a coin in problem-free, respectable condition, I will move on to something else.

Buy the coin, not the problem.

KentuckyJ · March 18, 2009 2:35PM

I would pass on it for all the reasons already given. As has been noted, if something about it bothers you now just wait and see how much more you will notice that aspect of the coin in only a little time. Inevitably, the problem becomes the only thing you see. Save your money, coin in one hand, money in the other hand, and apply your money towards a problem free example sometime further down the road.

BlindedByEgo · March 18, 2009 3:11PM

I'd pay little more than the 1/4 oz. gold value, and use it as an Uber-cool golf ball marker on the golf course.

CharlotteDude · March 18, 2009 11:49PM

I'll stand firm by my comments. The coin looks original enough, certainly hasn't been scrubbed or hairlined. If you want to get technical, it looks like too much lighting was used. The '50-C looks nothing like the 41-C FC posted. Not quite as "crusty" as the '52-C either, but the '52-C was shot at much more subtle lighting. I'll reiterate, while I like the color and detail on the '50-C, the scratches/damage would be a deal-killer. SO while FC rants, I would say that if it wasn't for the damage, I'd consider the '50-C very nice at a VF-25/30 grade.

'dude

fc · March 19, 2009 12:16AM

<< I'll stand firm by my comments. The coin looks original enough, certainly hasn't been scrubbed or hairlined. If you want to get technical, it looks like too much lighting was used. The '50-C looks nothing like the 41-C FC posted. Not quite as "crusty" as the '52-C either, but the '52-C was shot at much more subtle lighting. I'll reiterate, while I like the color and detail on the '50-C, the scratches/damage would be a deal-killer. SO while FC rants, I would say that if it wasn't for the damage, I'd consider the '50-C very nice at a VF-25/30 grade.

'dude >>

does ranting make me wrong? of course not.
while you try to use lighting as an excuse i can easily see the difference
in patina and dirt in the cracks between the coins.

the damaged coin in the OP was cleaned up and is the farthest thing
from original. the pictures are shot in the usual way people do to make barren
boring gold coins seem like something more then they are. Once in hand you
would look at it and realize you bought a dud damage or not.

i have a feeling if people wish to agree with me or come over to my side on what
defines a non played with coin a 150 years old in a circulated grade they would
have to step back and realize what they own for the most part is not original. I think they do not
care to do that and thus continue on looking at played with coins which are the
sheer majority for sale today and convince themselves if it is not hair lined to heck and back
it must be somewhat original.

I know i went through that stage and was quite disgusted to realize, for example, a 750 dollar
coin i bought was cleaned up, barren of patina, and typical of the coins for sale cleaned up
by collectors over the decades. Countless posts have been posted by members here who
lament why they cannot find walkers with a thick skin, gold collectors wondering why so
many gold coins are shiny like the sun, and copper people wondering why a proof is blue.

critical thinking skills, being able to admit you might have made a major mistake, and taking
advice from people you might not care (or like) for will allow you to grow in the hobby.

and dude.. do not take this post as directly towards you. you may have spurred me to
go on and on about it.. but it is a general post directed towards anyone who cares to
read it.

CharlotteDude · March 19, 2009 6:37AM

The more I read, the more I can only shake my head and laugh. Have you seen the coin in hand, FC? If it gives you comfort to arbitrarily rubberstamp a coin as 'cleaned' because you've perhaps been burned in the past by misleading photographs, is one thing. Let that be a beacon for your personal choices whether to purchase or not. You shouldn't, however, be so geared up to slam a coin based on limited knowledge. Again, I stand by my initial statements.

'dude

fc · March 19, 2009 7:04AM

<< The more I read, the more I can only shake my head and laugh. Have you seen the coin in hand, FC? If it gives you comfort to arbitrarily rubberstamp a coin as 'cleaned' because you've perhaps been burned in the past by misleading photographs, is one thing. Let that be a beacon for your personal choices whether to purchase or not. You shouldn't, however, be so geared up to slam a coin based on limited knowledge. Again, I stand by my initial statements.

'dude >>

shake your head and laugh eh? There is no nice way to say this.

after viewing your registry set and how you describe the coins you buy
there is no way in heck i would suggest someone coming to you for
advice on circulated half eagles and what is original.

I am truly done with you. I have a feeling most here are too polite to
knock you off your high horse. That always bugs me about coin collecting.
Too much happy talk and the ability of some to BS there way
through a post with no reasoning behind it. They get something in their
head, think they can buy some rare coins, and they must be right. I think
you have been confused since day one and still are!

"Owner's Description:
Deep, original green-gold coloration over semi-prooflike surfaces bordered by lustrous devices... nice crust! While not rare in comparison with other C-mint $5's, southern gold like this, with its original, crusty skin still intact is extremely tough to find these days. Although the mintage was nearly identical to the previous year's (at 64,823), the combined NGC/PCGS population is 80-90 coins more at 285-290 in all grades. My first Charlotte gold coin... purchased from Blackburn's Collectibles, Pacific Grove, CA, August 1991. "

JrGMan2004 · March 19, 2009 7:06AM

As cool as C and D mint gold is... I would not buy that coin unless it was for melt... and then I would be very tempted to melt it down... I'd wait for a better piece to come along and pony up a little more to get a decent coin...

rld14 · March 19, 2009 7:38AM

IMO It's worth melt, period. See, there's LOTS of coins that I want, but a coin like that isn't worth buying in poor condition.

Longacre · March 19, 2009 8:02AM

We're in a Numismatic Recession. Prices will come down. Personally, I would pass on that coin. Why buy some else's problem?

crypto79 · March 19, 2009 8:19AM

If that is your budget than that is your budget. Go for it is still a real piece of southern gold and only about 2x melt. There will always be a market for cheap southern gold and even if you get melt a couple of hundred bucks is a small price to pay to enjoy something for a couple of years. From the sounds on this board everyone here must have a collection ready for a museum. Because he can't afford a choice piece of gold doesn't mean he doesn't know what choice is. Most people collect coins because they act as a time machine for their brain and not everyone needs a hairline free example to power up the Delorean. Eye appeal just affects the resale and value, it is still a relic no matter state it's in. Collect what you like, buy the best you can afford.

2manycoins2fewfunds · March 19, 2009 8:25AM

It is almost always a mistake to buy a junk coin such as pictured.

No matter how cheap it will just nag you til you get rid of it.

Norseman88 · March 19, 2009 8:36AM

<< for goodness sakes.. i had to look through 100 C half eagles in 25-35
to find just one that has a patina to it. this may give you an idea how
many have been scrubbed right up. It is like so many coins have been
cleaned, 150+ year old coins, that people see them and begin to forget
what original 150 year old antiques normally look like! Life was dirty
then. Oil cans, pants so caked with sweat and mud they would stand
on their own, working in the fields, you name it!

Original gold coins.. with a patina.. in circulated grades are the rarest
thing i can think of right now. Rant over.

of course.. if you think this is normal.. i can do nothing for you!

feel free to browse heritage and witness the played with coins.
http://coins.ha.com/common/search_results.php?N=51+790+231+397+1579+64 >>

While I usually find myself at odds with you on precious metals as a collector of branch mint gold I strongly agree with you, the number of surviving original crusty southern gold is very small and for some dates are practically non-existant I would say less than 10% for most issues. This is one area of the market that has some good long term potential as people can once in awhile stumble into a nice crusty coin selling for the same price as a processed coin.

TwoSides2aCoin · March 19, 2009 8:54AM

Embellishments like "bargain" do not currently apply to this coin. Gold keeps going up, though. You may find over time that it was a great bargain inspite of the "abrasiveness" of the thread against the coin.

RYK · March 19, 2009 9:41AM

<< Embellishments like "bargain" do not currently apply to this coin. Gold keeps going up, though. You may find over time that it was a great bargain inspite of the "abrasiveness" of the thread against the coin. >>

or not.

CharlotteDude · March 19, 2009 11:16AM

FC, you have never seen my 1849-C in hand and for someone with such obviously limited knowledge to pass judgement on it is ridiculous. It's interesting that you are the only boardmember who has ever made one negative comment about my registry set... quite telling about your character. It's apparent from your posts (and subsequent mindset) that every gold coin has been cleaned or scrubbed out, unless they meet every single 'FC criteria' for originality. While it's true, a great many have, it's simply not that black and white. And I can say with all confidence, that the '49-C is as original as they come. So now you can be "done" with yourself.

C'dude

CharlotteDude · March 23, 2009 12:20PM

As a final note to the unwarranted and extremely provocative slam made on my '49-C HE, I'll be at the Baltimore Show both Friday & Saturday. I pulled the coin from my SDB and will have it on hand at the show should any fellow forum member wish to view it for themselves for your own educated assessment, or if you just want to see a nice example of southern gold. I you're interested in seeing the coin, just PM me, and we can arrange a meet/greet/viewing anywhere within the confines of the bourse floor.

C'dude

ColonialCoinUnion · March 23, 2009 12:41PM

<< As a final note to the unwarranted and extremely provocative slam made on my '49-C HE, I'll be at the Baltimore Show both Friday & Saturday. I pulled the coin from my SDB and will have it on hand at the show should any fellow forum member wish to view it for themselves for your own educated assessment, or if you just want to see a nice example of southern gold. I you're interested in seeing the coin, just PM me, and we can arrange a meet/greet/viewing anywhere within the confines of the bourse floor.

C'dude >>

Great idea 'dude! Please stop by our table (#304) as we'd love to see the coin in hand!

HalfStrike · March 24, 2009 4:37AM

This coin seems to have been damaged by a jealous fellow coin collector or divorce.

CharlotteDude · March 24, 2009 7:51AM

Will do CCU, hope to see you there!

'dude

quickwing · March 24, 2009 8:16AM

Now you know what your favorite coins will look like if your wife (spouse) gets really pi$$ed off!!!
She sure knew how to get your goat.

Charlotte $5 Gold for under $500, bargain or blunder?

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