Crack out stories

soty27 · March 19, 2009 3:04PM

Okay so I thought I would ask around.
What are your experiences with cracking coins out to get an upgrade ?

LeeG · March 19, 2009 6:11PM

Don't play the game if you can't handle the pain.

GFourDriver · March 19, 2009 7:02PM

<<<Don't play the game if you can't handle the pain. >>>

I agree!

StubbyMcNumbthumbs · March 19, 2009 7:11PM

<< <<<Don't play the game if you can't handle the pain. >>> >>

OK, so why did PCGS think these were not gradeable?

Large cent - fake? or Questionable color?

1926 - Questionable color?

RyGuy · March 19, 2009 8:25PM

I see no reason based on those pics why the Lincoln did not grade. The half cent appears to have been lacquered, but that is very common amongst that series.

Still great coins in my eyes.

Ryan

LeeG · March 19, 2009 8:31PM

<< OK, so why did PCGS think these were not gradeable?

Large cent - fake? or Questionable color?

1926 - Questionable color? >>

1926 1C US Genuine (91 - Questionable Color)

1833 1/2C US Genuine (94 - Altered Surface)

commoncents123 · March 19, 2009 8:32PM

Maybe they thought the Lincoln was AT

StubbyMcNumbthumbs · March 19, 2009 9:14PM

The 1926 looks great (and original) to me.

The 1833 looks to have some extra "shinyness" in the hair region. Something looks amiss about it overall, but that may just be the photo. If it's been lacquered, is that something that can be removed/conserved? I know I wouldn't touch it!

Even so, it looks like a REALLY NICE example!

This is where the slabbing game really loses credibility to me. I would love to have either one of those in my collection! IMO, PCGS got both of these wrong!

InternetJunky · March 19, 2009 9:27PM

I think at least the Lincoln should be resubmitted, if not the 1833 along with it...

jmj3esq · March 19, 2009 9:54PM

I have had some great success cracking out. A lot more success than failure.

Here is one failure that ended up not hurting me too bad. I bought a very nice looking Isabella Commem Quarter that was graded MS62 by ANACS on ebay. It was in a newer clear slab. It cost about $500. I cracked it and sent it to PCGS. It came back cleaned. I was pissed. It didn't look cleaned to me so I sent it back to ANACS and they again graded it MS62. I later sold it for about $550. After the grading fees, I only lost a few dollars.

The Gettysburg in my sig line used to be in an NGC MS65 slab. After a crackout it is now in a PCGS MS66 slab.

WaterSport · March 19, 2009 10:01PM

There is a bee in a graders bonnet about any Lincoln that has ANY sheen or mix of color with a very light blue as seen on the 1926. I have seen enough of this color mix that despite what the experts say (oh that’s right, the experts never do say now do they. That would be like education, and education would be, well- ya know - Knowledge. And if we were knowledgeable as to why they would can a coin, we might not submit them, and we all know what happens if we do not submit coins) is caused by some former storage situation. The fact is, these same none gradable coins are put on my freaking back porch and resubmitted AND holdered a few months later, ONLY I am screwed out of a R&B designation. Sorry I had to vent – but it just gets old. If every Lincoln that gets graded has to be a pure RED or BROWN coin, how boring would that be?

WS

dsessom · March 19, 2009 10:28PM

It's a shame that those two did not grade. I wish PCGS would still assign a numerical grade to these type coins, with notes. The new "Genuine" holder is progress toward a better system. I don't see the sense in totally undermining the value of a coin because it was once cleaned. Sure, it should NOT have the value of an original coin but it shouldn't be kicked to the curb either.
I would really like to see something similar to what ANACS does. For example:

1833 Half Cent
MS63BN
Altered Surfaces

Or something like that. Instead of just

1833 Half Cent
GENUINE

lkeigwin · March 19, 2009 11:10PM

I had a stunning 1916-D Lincoln graded 65RD by NGC. I tried crossing it at grade and PCGS said "min 64RD" and returned it.

I should have left well enough alone but instead I cracked it and sent it in raw. PCGS returned it in a BB for questionable color. Argh. I sent it in a third time a few months later, mixed in with other coins. It again came back in a BB.

I gave up, paid the tuition, and sold it on ebay with full disclosure. It sold quite well, oddly enough. But I still lost $hundreds. (Yes, don't play the game if you can't stand the pain.)

Lance.

HighRelief · March 20, 2009 1:33AM

Sometimes you win.

Sometimes you lose.

BECOKA · March 20, 2009 1:37AM

In my case I usually get same grade or downgrades and only a few upgrades. My worst down grade was an NGC AU58 half eagle that I expected to come back AU55 but PCGS gave it an AU50.

Doogy · March 20, 2009 1:48AM

several.......

NGC AU58 Bust half, to PCGS MS63 (it did have wear though)

PCGS PF63UC 1839 5 pounds 'Una' to NGC PF64UC (where it belonged)

ICCS MS64 Peace dollar widget to PCGS MS66 (this happened three times in two months)

ICCS MS65 Morgan dollar widget to PCGS MS67 (nice bonus)

ICCS MS64 Morgan dollar widget to PCGS MS66 (had two of these)

metalmeister · March 20, 2009 1:49AM

Personally I don't crack out old Fatties or old PCI green holders anymore.
They usually sell at a premium depending on look/grade.
Did have some success though.

1Mike1 · March 20, 2009 1:49AM

I've seen some raw lincolns of mine turn neon colors on the surface after they have been wiped off with a cotton cloth. Maybe that's what they see in the 26 Lincoln. But on the other hand I have Lincolns in PCGS plastic that are in worse shape than ones that I have seen reject for color.

To answer the original question, I did crack a 14D Lincoln VG8 out of a PCI and PCGS upgraded it to VG10.

Bcsican · March 20, 2009 1:52AM

A 1955 DD Lincoln Anacs AU 58....

PCGS sent in back in a body bag...cleaned...

TonedCoinTrader · March 20, 2009 1:57AM

I've done 3 crack out's total and they are as follows,

1881 S PCI GOLD HOLDER MS 65 to NGC MS 66

1882 AGC MS 66 TO ANACS MS 66 this was 6 years ago...

1881 S NGC MS 65 to NGC MS 65* (star) upgrade.

All three were Crescent Rainbow Bag toned on the obverse.

HTubbs · March 20, 2009 2:34AM

<< I've done 3 crack out's total and they are as follows,

1881 S PCI GOLD HOLDER MS 65 to NGC MS 66

1882 AGC MS 66 TO ANACS MS 66 this was 6 years ago...

1881 S NGC MS 65 to NGC MS 65* (star) upgrade.

All three were Crescent Rainbow Bag toned on the obverse.

>>

Nice Scott! I have to say that I have never heard of anyone upgrading an ex-PCI gold holder a whole point. Usually most PCI golds are at least a point or two lower.

TonedCoinTrader · March 20, 2009 3:34AM

"Nice Scott! I have to say that I have never heard of anyone upgrading an ex-PCI gold holder a whole point. Usually most PCI golds are at least a point or two lower. "

Ya, I was expecting a 65* but the coins was cleaner than a 65 and the Luster was Awesome, not seen in this old pic I found of it...

Barndog · March 20, 2009 3:49AM

the coin pictured below was in a PCGS OGH AU-55 holder. When cracked out and resubmitted raw, it graded PCGS MS-62. The price difference for an OGH AU-55 ($350 when purchased) and a run-of-the-mill MS-62 ($500 or so?) is not significant; however, this coin is but one of two known (by someone who has been searching for it a lot longer than I have) of the die marriage in mint state. So when he and I made a trade, I got three coins in return: two AU-58 CBHD and one MS-63 CBHD.

golfer72 · March 20, 2009 10:25AM

How can that 85-S go from DPL to nothing? I could see PL, but nothing? There is something rotten in Denmark.

Russ · March 20, 2009 10:33AM

Did somebody mention crackouts?

Russ, NCNE

Russ · March 20, 2009 10:36AM

<< How can that 85-S go from DPL to nothing? I could see PL, but nothing? There is something rotten in Denmark. >>

Reverse perhaps?

Russ, NCNE

TennesseeDave · March 20, 2009 10:36AM

I cracked out an 1824 CBH in an NGC VF-25 holder and submitted to Pcgs and it went into an1824/1 XF-40 holder(I thought 35)
I now have an 1817/3 CBH in an NGC VF-20 holder that I think will grade VF-30/35 at Pcgs(we'll see)

LeeBone · March 23, 2009 1:51AM

<<

Don't play the game if you can't handle the pain. >>

Hey Lee,
Are you submitting coins to PCGS under my name?!

Those are two BEAUTIFUL coins and you received BB`s ???
That`s something that I thought only happened to me!

We do have the same first name...

Regards,
Lee

robkool · March 23, 2009 2:31AM

Some recent submissions...

1856 Large Cent... PCGS MS63BN (ex. ANACS MS63BN) Crossover

1909 s Indian cent... PCGS VF20 (ex. ANACS VF20) Crossover

1909 s vdb Lincoln... PCGS VF20 (ex. ANACS VF20 details net F12) rim damage. Crackout

1898 Barber dime... PCGS MS62 (ex. ANACS MS62) Crossover

1878 cc Morgan $... PCGS AU58 (ex. NGC MS62) Crossover

1900 $20 Lib... PCGS MS62 (ex. NGC MS62) Crackout

1908 $20 NM Saint... PCGS MS62 (ex. ANACS MS62) Crackout

yellowkid · March 23, 2009 3:17AM

All bets are off when you crack out a piece and I will leave that for others more knowledgeable than I.

JJM · March 23, 2009 4:31AM

Maybe we need to get a forum board plastic recycle program going ................

<< Did somebody mention crackouts?

Russ, NCNE >>

GoldenEyeNumismatics · March 23, 2009 5:39AM

<< <<<Don't play the game if you can't handle the pain. >>>

I agree! >>

Me too. The "cost of an education" can be quite brutal.

Cladiator · March 23, 2009 5:43AM

I bought an 1829 CBH10¢ in an old/small ANACS MS61. Cracked it out and submitted it to PCGS, they body bagged it. I then sold it to a friend who re-submitted it to PCGS and it came back as MS61. Ya win some, ya lose some.

fishteeth · March 23, 2009 5:46AM

I sent a PCI AU58 1837 sesated half dime and a PCI AU53 1875-s 20cent piece to PCGS (old Green Holder).

The seated dime came back as MS60 and the 20 cent as AU58

LeeBone · March 23, 2009 6:41AM

<< I bought an 1829 CBH10¢ in an old/small ANACS MS61. Cracked it out and submitted it to PCGS, they body bagged it. I then sold it to a friend who re-submitted it to PCGS and it came back as MS61. >>

Sometimes I wonder what`s going on at TPG`s.......

golfer72 · March 23, 2009 8:51AM

Sometimes I wonder what`s going on at TPG`s....... They be makin lots of money, thats whats goin on.

WTCG · March 23, 2009 10:06AM

<< <<<Don't play the game if you can't handle the pain. >>>

I agree! >>

That statement should be retained in the minds of anybody who wishes to engage themselves in the crackout game.

Just like stories of casino gambling, most people share and hear only the stories and tales of the winning moments. You never really hear about the heartbreaking losses that happen from time to time.

Even with the best crackout dealers, the rate of success on achieving upgrades seldomly tops 30%, and that rate drops lower if multiple submissions of the same coins are not counted. For coins that carry a substantial price "spread" between grades the success rate is lower than what you would imagine.

Four, five and even six figure upgrades do happen, but imagine trying to stomach a five-figure downgrade. The really serious crackout guys have to once in a while, and when it happens it makes that $800 loss you took on your crackout appear rather trivial.

Edscoin · March 23, 2009 11:13AM

<< Sometimes I wonder what`s going on at TPG`s....... They be makin lots of money, thats whats goin on. >>

Yep, TPG's never lose on crack outs!

illini420 · March 23, 2009 11:21AM

Although I wasn't in it for upgrades/financial gains, I have retired from the "crack out game" following my experience with Cracker's Remorse...

CharlotteDude · March 23, 2009 11:33AM

Here's an example of a coin which I purchased raw, submitted to PCGS in 1993 and received a VF-30 grade. I had expected the coin to grade at least XF-40, so I brought it to a Baltimore show in 2003, showed it to several prominent dealers of southern gold... each one said it was an easy XF coin and even offered XF money for it. I resubmitted it to PCGS, where it came back as an XF-45.

Here a few other examples of upgrades:

1854-O $3 PCGS XF-45 to NGC AU-55
1857-S $3 PCGS XF-45 to NGC AU-53
1860-S $3 PCGS VF-25 to PCGS XF-45
1838-C $5 PCGS VF-30 to PCGS XF-45
1842-C $5 PCGS XF-45 to PCGS AU-50
1850-C $5 NGC AU-50 to NGC AU-58
1856-D $5 NGC VF-30 to NGC XF-45
1856-O $5 PCGS VF-30 to PCGS XF-45
1882-O $10 PCGS VF-30 to PCGS XF-45
1857-O $20 PCGS VF-35 to PCGS XF-45

These are just a few of the coins I've purchased over the years and resubmitted for upgrades, most of the above I've sold, but some remain... anyway what do I know? I've been told that I simply do not know how to grade coins....

C'dude

PerryHall · March 23, 2009 8:34PM

<< Did somebody mention crackouts?

Russ, NCNE >>

When you consider what slabbing and round trip shipping costs, someone threw away several thousand dollars.

erroid · March 23, 2009 9:46PM

1904O NTC MS65 to PCGS MS65; the real good part is that she's a Hitlist 40, VAM-4B.

UtahCoin · March 23, 2009 10:03PM

My best upgrade was a 1st generation PCI holdered 20 cent piece graded AU58. Upgraded to a PCGS MS62

Connecticoin · April 12, 2009 11:37PM

<< 

<< Did somebody mention crackouts?

Russ, NCNE >>

When you consider what slabbing and round trip shipping costs, someone threw away several thousand dollars.

>>

I think the more likely result was that someone made several thousand dollars.

pocketpiececommems · April 12, 2009 11:41PM

I cracked out a Maryland commem that was in a SEGS XF45 holder. I would have liked to have had the same grade or lower. It came back from PCGS as MS62. Wrong direction for me.

PerryHall · April 13, 2009 12:00AM

<< I think the more likely result was that someone made several thousand dollars. >>

Unlikely, unless they sold the coins as overgraded raw coins on eBay.

Connecticoin · April 13, 2009 12:35AM

<< 

<< I think the more likely result was that someone made several thousand dollars. >>

Unlikely, unless they sold the coins as overgraded raw coins on eBay. >>

Well, maybe Russ will let us know.

Crack out stories

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