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At Baltimore, would I gain anything by doing an "Off-Brand Hour", or would it be a waste o

LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I will be at the Baltimore show on Friday, and I have been plotting my strategy for some time now. Because of the limited time that I have (which will include, of course, several passes by the Stack's table to see if I can crane my neck over the crowds and catch a glimpse of QDB; similarly, for board member Dentuck), I need to plan my day wisely.

For kicks, I was thinking of designating one hour as the "Off-Brand Hour", where I would not look at PCGS or NGC coins, and rather seek out all of the second tier holders, like ANACS, ICG, DGS, SEGS, and those brands of similar ilk. I figure spending an hour of my time looking at these coins might be beneficial, because perhaps an undervalued coin or two could be found (and in today's numismatic recession, every dollar saved is welcome).

Should I bother doing this, or should I just stick with the National Brands?

Should I also budget some time and take a quick pass through the "value collector" section of the bourse, or would my velvet smoking jacket give me away as not a mere lookie-lou?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)

Comments

  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would regard the "off-brand hour" as a complete waste of time. I suspect most dealers who have such slabbed coins in their inventories would price them comparable to PCGS or NGC coins, with the hopes of selling them for top dollar to the uneducated.

    However, you should look at the "value collector" section of any dealer you visit...especially those dealers with whom you already have a good relationship. The odds of ripping or cherry picking them are lower, but you can still get very good deals.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looking for "off-brand" slabs is a wise thing to do if you are confident in your grading ability. Grading ability includes rating wear, eye appeal and originality. If the price is right ... strike!
    All glory is fleeting.
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I always just scan cases for the coins, and forget the plastic. In hand, I'd never dismiss a coin just because of its holder. In fact, one of my favorite Morgans is in a PCI holder... big bands of rainbow bag toning, and it didn't cost much at all. The grade is even a bit conservative. Online I might not have bought it, but there's no harm in looking in-hand.
    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,673 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Look for the raw coin that would benefit by using the company which encapsulates the coin (if you're eyes are that good). There are literally thousands of raw coins meeting this criteria and a lot of money can be made in this endeavor even if you only hold the coin for a little while. It's your gift for finding it underpriced. That's how I look at coins.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,996 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Isn't what you are proposing called slumming?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • yellowkidyellowkid Posts: 5,486
    It would all depend on your ability to grade, in my case I wouldn't waste valuable time with a lot to look at.
  • RedTigerRedTiger Posts: 5,608
    At a large show, a good many dealers price their off brand slabs, close to the top brands looking for fish to bite. So unless a person can negotiate well, or has relationships with those dealers, it would be a waste of time. Try and sell some of those same off brand slabs to those same dealers stocking them, and the typical bid will be a lot lower than for the top tier brands.

    Time might be better spent looking at raw coins, or tokens, or something else.

  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,447 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just a tip, you might have more luck finding QDB at the exhibit section or at the Whitman Booth. I met him at the Milwaukee ANA. He was peering over my shoulder in the BEP exhibitimage
    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • newsmannewsman Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭
    Sometimes it's fun to walk by the off-brand dealers' tables and see how lonely they are. Baltimore shows aren't the best place to be if you're fishing for suckers.
  • BBQnBLUESBBQnBLUES Posts: 1,803
    Could always build one of these to promote your "Blue Light Special Hour" image

    image
  • bestclser1bestclser1 Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    Never hurts,you might find something thats a bargain.I have found some killer coins in PCI and ICG holders.image
    Great coins are not cheap,and cheap coins are not great!
  • KentuckyJKentuckyJ Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭

    Won't you have an image problem if you're seen wandering the budget aisle looking at third tier plastic?
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,996 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Won't you have an image problem if you're seen wandering the budget aisle looking at third tier plastic? >>

    image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • newsmannewsman Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Never hurts,you might find something thats a bargain.I have found some killer coins in PCI and ICG holders.image >>



    You're more likely to find something that will kill your collecting budget. Most bottom-feeding dealers can grade better than you think. image
  • phehpheh Posts: 1,588
    Depends on the table you are sitting at.
  • BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭
    Do you collect coins or plastic?
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭
    If you're going to spend time scanning the off-brand holders, it pays to develop an ability to see through the plastic and find hidden rim damage.
  • Who cares what holder its in if you like the coin?
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,996 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Who cares what holder its in if you like the coin? >>



    The guy you try to sell it to some day.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • IGWTIGWT Posts: 4,975
    Like so much else, it depends on what you're looking for.
  • phehpheh Posts: 1,588
    I'll say it again just to be sure it is clear. While I agree knowing your coins is the most important trait in attempting this practice, because it is critical to so much else about the hobby it really isn't a complete answer

    Knowing or learning the dealer/table will save you a lot of time. Which is why it matters at whose table you rest your caboose.

    Is the dealer known for wholesaling - do they do lots of mail order? Compare slab counts and prices. Are PCGS slabbed coins vs. NGC slabbed coins of the same type/year/mint selling for significantly more than they should be? Using common date 64/65 Morgans are the easiest and quickest way to discern this practice. Do they have a lot of raw coins for sale as well - hopefully boxed in 2x2s and not on display?

    All of these things will play into your favor. The point is not to waste time at a table at which you get the impression that the guy on the other side spends a lot of time grading for crossover or upgrade of his own second tier slabs. Dealers are in this business to make money and they are making it one of two ways. They either spend a lot of time searching out and marketing the best coins they can find, or they do a LOT of business and spend most of their time managing and marketing a large inventory. Obviously you want the guy who is managing and marketing a lot of inventory.
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,073 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Many very nice coins in "off-brand" slabs. Check 'em all out!

  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
    If you are going to do that, I would suggest doing a "budget set." Like a set of small size bust quarters 1831-1838, in a low grade. I actually think it would be a neat set. All certified and all in...say F-12 or VF20. This gives you something to look for in the "slum" area, it costs around $100 bucks a pop and it gets you back to the roots of collecting. You can still use your trained eye to aquire "nice coins for the grade." I think you might be suprised that it is tougher than you think, and quite enjoyable. Just an idea.
  • Aegis3Aegis3 Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭


    << <i>For kicks, I was thinking of designating one hour as the "Off-Brand Hour", where I would not look at PCGS or NGC coins, and rather seek out all of the second tier holders, like ANACS, ICG, DGS, SEGS, and those brands of similar ilk. >>



    Why not just look for the numismatic items you want, regardless of what holder/tomb they are in? Or does such simplicity violate the international tax lawyer's code of conduct somehow?
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You might be better off spending that hour looking at raw coins. What worries me about the "off brands" is the holder hides the edge of the coin, which can have problems as well.

    The green label PCI holders with the 10 digit serial numbers can have some nice coins for the grade inside them.

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