<< <i>Actually, according to the website, the Photo Seal does carry the guarantee that the coin will be bought back for a price at least 75% of their selling price. Given that PCGS doesn't pay full price according to their guide either, I think Rick's guarantee is definitely worth something... CAC doesn't guarantee squat! >>
See my previous post - it is not a guarantee but rather an "almost guarantee", although I suspect Eagle Eye would buy back most coins. However, to be precise, there is a caveat in the wording:
"To calculate our base buying price for any coin listed here, take 75% of the retail price listed. We of course reserve the right to decline any buy that may be an unwanted duplication of our inventory or some other reason." >>
If it is true that this is the extent of Rick's guarantee to buy back his stickered coins then I will take CAC everytime. Liquidity, or the % of the amount of the buyback relative to the guarantee is everything, imo and I think CAC wins out on this point of the discussion..
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
People who bust others' chops about where and how they spend their own money are idiots.
You wanna spend money on one, two, or twelve stickers to support your coin, go for it. I'm still not going to pay a penny more for your coin than I am willing.
<< <i>They are intrinsic parts of the MARKET grade which in reality is more about pricing it than grading it as it's practiced today.
They are intrinsic parts of the technical grade. How can you technically grade a coin without taking into account luster, surfaces and strike? >>
I agree completely - they are part of the grade, period. I always cringe when I hear or read someone say something like "all coins are 70 when the come off the dies until there is some post mint damage" Even the illustrious QDB makes general comments like this in some writing and it is just not true. A poorly struck coin, or a coin with poor luster from tired dies begins its life well below 70. Period.
Thanks for the nice comments. As mature grown-up coin collectors, you should never expect a guaranteed market in anything, but since there are many issues with copper, especially full red copper, I feel it is important to provide a safety net.
My buy-in guarantee wording was chosen by my lawyer to offset the proverbial "run" on the bank scenario. It has never happened where someone presented too many coins to take in, but if it did, I'd have to be able to control my own inventory and cash outlay, so the caveat is in there. The criterion I use is "would I want this coin regardless of the market?". If yes, then its must be pretty nice.
Also, the 75% base bid is a minimum. Where actually I have to pay much more for my inventory in many cases. However, I figure with all I guarantee, even a 25% mark-up is reasonable. Auctions make 10% to 20% with little risk. With the exception of quick-turnover material, like gold or Morgans or proof sets, this is pretty standard with retailers - and I sell every coin to collectors, not dealers.
There are others who use my information to my disadvantage, so I hurt myself sometimes by giving out so much pricing information.
In a difficult area such as Indian cents, where eye appeal is very important, having an educated opinion is worth an extra percentage. I think the photo seal is a value-added idea. CAC is a value-added sticker too, since a good idea is worth copying.
Thanks to Rick for stopping by and clarifying. I own one PhotoSeal coin in my collection, purchased directly from Rick. What I want to know is whether the PhotoSeal sticker results in higher prices in the secondary market?
<< <i>. Again, I ask - how can one be FOR the Eagle Eye concept, but against the CAC concept? >>
That would indeed be an oxymoron. All (except one) of my PCGS graded FE and indian head cents have BOTH the Rick Snow photoseal and the CAC sticker.
By the way, the CAC sticker is on the LEFT of the holder when there is a Snow photoseal.
There is "synergy" or added liquidity in my opinion when you have BOTH the photoseal and the CAC sticker.
The one PCGS graded indian head cent that did not have the Rick Snow photoseal was also rejected by CAC.
REASON: PVC was discovered on the coin. This is why I am extremely cautious even with PCGS slabbed FE and NDN copper coins. >>
If this is the case you should send that one coin back to PCGS for an acetone dip and a re-holder before the PVC does damage. After this maybe it will sticker.
> What I want to know is whether the PhotoSeal sticker results in higher prices in the secondary market?
It probably carries weight with the experienced collector. Others will undoubtedly wonder what the heck is this? I think people on this board tend to forget the majority of equally valid coin collectors don't even know this forum exists. Those type of folks may be more impressed with a CAC sticker. I suppose you could have both stickers if you got the CAC first. As I understand it, you need to remove all stickers before submitting a coin to CAC.
<< <i>Thanks to Rick for stopping by and clarifying. I own one PhotoSeal coin in my collection, purchased directly from Rick. What I want to know is whether the PhotoSeal sticker results in higher prices in the secondary market? >>
It probably depends on whether the current market is investor-driven or collector-driven. My sense is that the former is much more sensitive to certifications and stickers.
Yes, a 75% buyback is a 25% margin. Which is a 33.3% markup.
Glad we got that all straightened out. >>
I understood it better before we straightened it out. >>
$75 buy back on a $100 coin is a $25 discount = 25% discount on $100.
It's also $25 profit on a $100 sale, or $25 margin = 25% margin on $100
But it's $25 markup on $75 cost = 33.3% markup on $75
Margin and discount are based on SALES PRICE. Markup is based on COST. Semantics to be sure, but I just thought I'd point out the errors being made in their usage.
Yes, a 75% buyback is a 25% margin. Which is a 33.3% markup.
Glad we got that all straightened out. >>
I understood it better before we straightened it out. >>
$75 buy back on a $100 coin is a $25 discount = 25% discount on $100.
It's also $25 profit on a $100 sale, or $25 margin = 25% margin on $100
But it's $25 markup on $75 cost = 33.3% markup on $75
Margin and discount are based on SALES PRICE. Markup is based on COST. Semantics to be sure, but I just thought I'd point out the errors being made in their usage. >>
Yes, I understand it all. I think that the explanation makes what is self-evident in the first place seem more complicated.
<< <i>Actually, according to the website, the Photo Seal does carry the guarantee that the coin will be bought back for a price at least 75% of their selling price. Given that PCGS doesn't pay full price according to their guide either, I think Rick's guarantee is definitely worth something... CAC doesn't guarantee squat! >>
Well if the market tanks SO badly that the coin is now only worth half of what the buyer paid for it, then a 75% buyback is a pretty good deal.
But keep in mind this is a minimum. Clakamas bought a beautiful 1868 MS-65RB for well over my retail price at the show, but I paid over my retail price to get it. I made 10% and would buy it again for the same price, so it is not a one-size fits all thing, just a minimum. I said that others have used it against me, by claiming that my base buy price is all I will pay, instead of saying it is the minimum I'll pay. That way they can steal deals from me without me ever offering.
Edited to add: You can't look at it as a buy back - it is a bid. Just like JA's bids and anyone else who posts bids. It just that at one point or another, I've seen all the coins I am bidding on.
Does CAC have a guaranteed buyback price for their coins?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Most of my IHC's and FE's were photosealed - that's because I have a great eye.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
I was wondering if the coin market tanks big time. If everyone went back to Mr Snow and wanted their 75% back, could he afford it. I mean if the coins are now worth 15% of their original selling price. I commend him for really sticking his neck out. I`m sure he has alot of money out there in sales.
<< <i>I was wondering if the coin market tanks big time. If everyone went back to Mr Snow and wanted their 75% back, could he afford it. I mean if the coins are now worth 15% of their original selling price. I commend him for really sticking his neck out. I`m sure he has alot of money out there in sales. >>
The caveat below negates any guarantee of a buyback. Please read the fine print!
Buying prices:To calculate our base buying price for any coin listed here, take 75% of the retail price listed. We of course reserve the right to decline any buy that may be an unwanted duplication of our inventory or some other reason.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Actually, according to the website, the Photo Seal does carry the guarantee that the coin will be bought back for a price at least 75% of their selling price. Given that PCGS doesn't pay full price according to their guide either, I think Rick's guarantee is definitely worth something... CAC doesn't guarantee squat! >>
See my previous post - it is not a guarantee but rather an "almost guarantee", although I suspect Eagle Eye would buy back most coins. However, to be precise, there is a caveat in the wording:
"To calculate our base buying price for any coin listed here, take 75% of the retail price listed. We of course reserve the right to decline any buy that may be an unwanted duplication of our inventory or some other reason." >>
If it is true that this is the extent of Rick's guarantee to buy back his stickered coins then I will take CAC everytime. Liquidity, or the % of the amount of the buyback relative to the guarantee is everything, imo and I think CAC wins out on this point of the discussion..
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
People who bust others' chops about where and how they spend their own money are idiots.
You wanna spend money on one, two, or twelve stickers to support your coin, go for it. I'm still not going to pay a penny more for your coin than I am willing.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>They are intrinsic parts of the MARKET grade which in reality is more about pricing it than grading it as it's practiced today.
They are intrinsic parts of the technical grade. How can you technically grade a coin without taking into account luster, surfaces and strike? >>
I agree completely - they are part of the grade, period. I always cringe when I hear or read someone say something like "all coins are 70 when the come off the dies until there is some post mint damage" Even the illustrious QDB makes general comments like this in some writing and it is just not true. A poorly struck coin, or a coin with poor luster from tired dies begins its life well below 70. Period.
edited for spelling
merse
My buy-in guarantee wording was chosen by my lawyer to offset the proverbial "run" on the bank scenario. It has never happened where someone presented too many coins to take in, but if it did, I'd have to be able to control my own inventory and cash outlay, so the caveat is in there. The criterion I use is "would I want this coin regardless of the market?". If yes, then its must be pretty nice.
Also, the 75% base bid is a minimum. Where actually I have to pay much more for my inventory in many cases. However, I figure with all I guarantee, even a 25% mark-up is reasonable. Auctions make 10% to 20% with little risk. With the exception of quick-turnover material, like gold or Morgans or proof sets, this is pretty standard with retailers - and I sell every coin to collectors, not dealers.
There are others who use my information to my disadvantage, so I hurt myself sometimes by giving out so much pricing information.
In a difficult area such as Indian cents, where eye appeal is very important, having an educated opinion is worth an extra percentage. I think the photo seal is a value-added idea. CAC is a value-added sticker too, since a good idea is worth copying.
https://www.smallcopperguy.com
<< <i>
<< <i>. Again, I ask - how can one be FOR the Eagle Eye concept, but against the CAC concept? >>
That would indeed be an oxymoron. All (except one) of my PCGS graded FE and indian head cents have BOTH the Rick Snow photoseal and the CAC sticker.
By the way, the CAC sticker is on the LEFT of the holder when there is a Snow photoseal.
There is "synergy" or added liquidity in my opinion when you have BOTH the photoseal and the CAC sticker.
The one PCGS graded indian head cent that did not have the Rick Snow photoseal was also rejected by CAC.
REASON: PVC was discovered on the coin. This is why I am extremely cautious even with PCGS slabbed FE and NDN copper coins. >>
If this is the case you should send that one coin back to PCGS for an acetone dip and a re-holder before the PVC does damage. After this maybe it will sticker.
<< <i>Which sticker would you want on your FE and IHCs and much more importantly, WHY?
Ever see a FE or IHC with BOTH stickers? >>
Eagle Eye. Rick is the man for a reason.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
> What I want to know is whether the PhotoSeal sticker results in higher prices in the secondary market?
It probably carries weight with the experienced collector. Others will undoubtedly wonder what the heck is this? I think people on this board tend to forget the majority of equally valid coin collectors don't even know this forum exists. Those type of folks may be more impressed with a CAC sticker. I suppose you could have both stickers if you got the CAC first. As I understand it, you need to remove all stickers before submitting a coin to CAC.
<< <i>Thanks to Rick for stopping by and clarifying. I own one PhotoSeal coin in my collection, purchased directly from Rick. What I want to know is whether the PhotoSeal sticker results in higher prices in the secondary market? >>
It probably depends on whether the current market is investor-driven or collector-driven. My sense is that the former is
much more sensitive to certifications and stickers.
75% buyback is a 33.3% discount, 75% of retail buy-in is a 25% margin.
Actually, a 25% discount.
Yes, a 75% buyback is a 25% margin. Which is a 33.3% markup.
Glad we got that all straightened out.
<< <i>75% buyback is a 33.3% discount
Actually, a 25% discount.
Yes, a 75% buyback is a 25% margin. Which is a 33.3% markup.
Glad we got that all straightened out.
I understood it better before we straightened it out.
<< <i>
<< <i>75% buyback is a 33.3% discount
Actually, a 25% discount.
Yes, a 75% buyback is a 25% margin. Which is a 33.3% markup.
Glad we got that all straightened out.
I understood it better before we straightened it out.
$75 buy back on a $100 coin is a $25 discount = 25% discount on $100.
It's also $25 profit on a $100 sale, or $25 margin = 25% margin on $100
But it's $25 markup on $75 cost = 33.3% markup on $75
Margin and discount are based on SALES PRICE. Markup is based on COST. Semantics to be sure, but I just thought I'd point out the errors being made in their usage.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>75% buyback is a 33.3% discount
Actually, a 25% discount.
Yes, a 75% buyback is a 25% margin. Which is a 33.3% markup.
Glad we got that all straightened out.
I understood it better before we straightened it out.
$75 buy back on a $100 coin is a $25 discount = 25% discount on $100.
It's also $25 profit on a $100 sale, or $25 margin = 25% margin on $100
But it's $25 markup on $75 cost = 33.3% markup on $75
Margin and discount are based on SALES PRICE. Markup is based on COST. Semantics to be sure, but I just thought I'd point out the errors being made in their usage. >>
Yes, I understand it all. I think that the explanation makes what is self-evident in the first place seem more complicated.
<< <i>Actually, according to the website, the Photo Seal does carry the guarantee that the coin will be bought back for a price at least 75% of their selling price. Given that PCGS doesn't pay full price according to their guide either, I think Rick's guarantee is definitely worth something... CAC doesn't guarantee squat! >>
Well if the market tanks SO badly that the coin is now only worth half of what the buyer paid for it, then a 75% buyback is a pretty good deal.
Edited to add: You can't look at it as a buy back - it is a bid. Just like JA's bids and anyone else who posts bids. It just that at one point or another, I've seen all the coins I am bidding on.
<< <i>75% buyback is a 33.3% discount
Actually, a 25% discount.
Yes, a 75% buyback is a 25% margin. Which is a 33.3% markup.
Glad we got that all straightened out.
As a buyer, either way sounds high to me.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
anyone has a better eye than him.
Either one is OK with me.
JT
I collect all 20th century series except gold including those series that ended there.
<< <i>I was wondering if the coin market tanks big time. If everyone went back to Mr Snow and wanted their 75% back, could he afford it. I mean if the coins are now worth 15% of their original selling price. I commend him for really sticking his neck out. I`m sure he has alot of money out there in sales. >>
The caveat below negates any guarantee of a buyback. Please read the fine print!
Buying prices:To calculate our base buying price for any coin listed here, take 75% of the retail price listed. We of course reserve the right to decline any buy that may be an unwanted duplication of our inventory or some other reason.
<< <i>Most of my IHC's and FE's were photosealed - that's because I have a great eye.
Just think how great your coins would be if you used both eyes!
<< <i>NO dealer can guarantee the buyback of all the coins they've sold. They don't have the capital to back it up. >>