Would any of you favor a PCGS grading designation for some problem coins?

Coinsponge · March 1, 2009 8:52AM

Such as CMS-XX for a cleaned uncirculated coin? Would that confuse too many people or complicate things too much? I hate to see so many otherwise desirable coins be stripped of most of their value do to a light cleaning or such.

lathmach · March 1, 2009 9:12AM

How about PR for PRoblem coin, with numbers 1 through 70 for the different problems.
You could send in your buffed coin, and it might come back PR63.
PR for problem coin, and 63 for buffed coin.
Sounds all good to me.

Ray

GoldenEyeNumismatics · March 1, 2009 9:18AM

This whole PCGS Genuine service/policy is a big mistake, IMO.

Coinsponge · March 1, 2009 9:25AM

<< How about PR for PRoblem coin, with numbers 1 through 70 for the different problems.
You could send in your buffed coin, and it might come back PR63.
PR for problem coin, and 63 for buffed coin.
Sounds all good to me.

Ray >>

I will take that as a "no".

thisnamztaken · March 1, 2009 9:31AM

To me it's a no-brainer; just WRITE the specific problem ON the insert, in plain English, like ANACS does!

Coinsponge · March 1, 2009 9:45AM

That sounds ok to me but it seems that PCGS is concerned that problem coins would not be differentiated enough from non-problem coins and have resisted this type of labeling. I thought with a completely different grade designation there would be a clear differentiation from non-problem coins and yet allow for an apparent condition classification.

Fairlaneman · March 1, 2009 9:57AM

<< This whole PCGS Genuine service/policy is a big mistake, IMO. >>

I agree.

Coinsponge · March 1, 2009 10:00AM

<< 

<< This whole PCGS Genuine service/policy is a big mistake, IMO. >>

I agree. >>

If you would elaborate it might be more interesting if not educational.

TwoSides2aCoin · March 1, 2009 10:04AM

<< To me it's a no-brainer; just WRITE the specific problem ON the insert, in plain English, like ANACS does! >>

As one might be able to attest why some say the "genuine" is a bad mistake.

Look at this post as a good reason. A no brainer, be like ANACS

Can you see why some say "bad bad bad". Not that ANACS is bad, it's just a different level of service to the numismatist. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. Genuine Problem

Bcsican · March 1, 2009 10:06AM

keep it simple...what the problem is then slab it...
I had a cleaned 1955 Double Die lincoln in Anacs holder...wanted it in a PCGS holder...they wouldnt do it (2002)

TwoSides2aCoin · March 1, 2009 10:09AM

But because PCGS adds value, I am for the Genuine holder. This service should offer a red label.

adamlaneus · March 1, 2009 10:10AM

<< 

<< 

<< This whole PCGS Genuine service/policy is a big mistake, IMO. >>

I agree. >>

If you would elaborate it might be more interesting if not educational. >>

Exactly.

How are Body Bags a better solution than a Genuine slab?

As a buyer, a Genuine slab means more to me than a raw coin.

With a raw coin, I do not know if it has been submitted and rejected. It may be counterfeit. It allows a seller, who knows a coin has body bagged perhaps multiple times, to play the doubt factor to their advantage. What does the prospective buyer know about a raw coin that the seller does not disclose?

A genuine slab at least gets rid of the counterfeit issue. And indicates that the coin was submitted and there was an issue.

In my opinion, more information is better than less information. As a buyer anyway.

As a seller, I see how one might want raw coins. But you can always crack that sucker out of the hard 'genuine' body bag and continue to sell in that manner if it is your desire.

I'd like to hear more about why folks feel Genuine slabs are a bad alternative compared with the Body Bags of the past. Educate me!

Cameonut · March 1, 2009 10:38AM

I am supportive of the Genuine Slab, but really wish the problem were spelled out (preferably in english) on the front label in a font large enough for people to see it.

The number system is difficult enough even for experienced collectors.

TennesseeDave · March 1, 2009 10:42AM

I would like to see Pcgs spell out the problem on the holder.That would make things a lot simpler for the novice collector.

Edscoin · March 1, 2009 10:54AM

<< To me it's a no-brainer; just WRITE the specific problem ON the insert, in plain English, like ANACS does! >>

lkeigwin · March 1, 2009 11:06AM

The genuine slab is not a bad idea, IMO. At least you know the coin is not counterfeit. The holder protects the coin, it fits in storage boxes and display cases with other holdered coins. I think PCGS did a very good thing here.

The problem is that the holder simple says "genuine". The reason for the BB is hidden. "Genuine" sure sounds like a good thing to the average Joe. Unscrupulous sellers are taking advantage.

The solution is SO simple! Put the reason on the label in plain English! For all failures, not just plugged, holed, rim files.

Lance.

foodude · March 1, 2009 2:00PM

would like to see PCGS spell out the problem on the holder.That would make things a lot simpler for the novice collector.

I agree. Also, some coins have more than one "problem," yet now doesn't only one problem code get listed? For example, a common combination is cleaned and AT/recolored, or don't the latter get the holdered?

PerryHall · March 1, 2009 9:38PM

<< To me it's a no-brainer; just WRITE the specific problem ON the insert, in plain English, like ANACS does! >>

PerryHall · March 1, 2009 9:46PM

<< would like to see PCGS spell out the problem on the holder.That would make things a lot simpler for the novice collector.

I agree. Also, some coins have more than one "problem," yet now doesn't only one problem code get listed? For example, a common combination is cleaned and AT/recolored, or don't the latter get the holdered? >>

PCGS only lists what it considers to be the most serious problem. Other less serious problems aren't listed. If a coin is coded on the label as harshly cleaned yet has beautiful toning to hide the cleaning, the fact that the toning is artificial is not listed on the label.

silvergoldnut · March 1, 2009 9:51PM

<< I am supportive of the Genuine Slab, but really wish the problem were spelled out (preferably in english) on the front label in a font large enough for people to see it.

The number system is difficult enough even for experienced collectors. >>

i agree, write the problem on the slab like every other slab company does. if i'm at a dealers table i might not remember all the CODES !!!

jnd1955 · March 1, 2009 10:36PM

PCGS should give the proper grade with the specific problem ON the insert. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have had a few that was body bag for questionable color, and i pulled them from a mint set or proof set.

john

291fifth · March 1, 2009 10:38PM

They should state the details grade and then clearly state the problem.

ColonialCoinUnion · March 1, 2009 11:22PM

<< I would like to see Pcgs spell out the problem on the holder.That would make things a lot simpler for the novice collector. >>

Is PCGS's primary goal to "make things simpler for the novice collector"? Or to produce a product that people actually want to buy?

ColonialCoinUnion · March 1, 2009 11:24PM

<< This whole PCGS Genuine service/policy is a big mistake, IMO. >>

Based on the number of PCGS Genuine holdered coins in the marketplace, it seems that there is significant demand for this product.

silvergoldnut · March 1, 2009 11:33PM

<< 

<< I would like to see Pcgs spell out the problem on the holder.That would make things a lot simpler for the novice collector. >>

Is PCGS's primary goal to "make things simpler for the novice collector"? Or to produce a product that people actually want to buy? >>

i think pcgs goal is to the novice collector, wouldn't you agree?
like any business if you don't bring in new customers you will die.

i like the fact that they took a BIG step forward, but they should of finish the job. i don't see why they would hide the problems with codes. do you?

this is not ment to be a slam, it's just common sense.

also , i don't care about a grade on the coin, just spell out the problems.

garsmith · March 1, 2009 11:38PM

I thought they already had one

nick-named: body bagged

PerryHall · March 2, 2009 3:19AM

<< they should of finish the job. i don't see why they would hide the problems with codes. do you? >>

PCGS's primary customers are dealers. Guess why dealers want the problems hidden using codes within the serial number?

TwoSides2aCoin · March 2, 2009 3:28AM

<< PCGS should give the proper grade with the specific problem ON the insert. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have had a few that was body bag for questionable color, and i pulled them from a mint set or proof set.

john >>

John, there's a little bit of what I call an oxymoron in your statement.

You say PCGS should give the "proper" grade with no specific problem noted on the insert, but if the color is questionable, even having spent it's life in the mint plastic, and the graders find it "improper" how can they grade it ?
On the same token, maybe mint set coins should be sent to PCGS in those sets. ... I have no experience with coins out of the mint set regarding submissions. Marty or Russ probably do. The company has to meet the whims of today's collectors and dealers and people won't hardly buy coins if they're problematic, unless they're keys.

We just witnessed a "questionable color" thread from another forum member who starts his threads with "GONG". Check it out. How do we grade a problem if it's a problem ? Net grading is the solution, but then the label should change color. That will put the "red flag" up to the problem.

Just thinkin' outloud, mate.

BECOKA · March 2, 2009 6:03AM

This has been hounded to death in other threads.

Me as a collector, when I pull my slabs out to look at coins I do not want the problem thrown in my face, I want to look at the coin. I can always look up what the issue is.

As a buyer, I want to look at the coin and make my own decision on how it net grades, again I know the issues from the number and if I don't a good dealer should have the list handy.

If I want someone's opinion on a net grade I'll send it to ANACS. BTW I don't think there is an official way to net grade, this is an opinion like normal grading but may be much more varying form person to person.

As far as stating the issues? I agree, PCGS should list all relevant numbers if there is more than one issue.

ColonialCoinUnion · March 2, 2009 6:22AM

<< Me as a collector, when I pull my slabs out to look at coins I do not want the problem thrown in my face, I want to look at the coin. >>

It is bizarre to me that so many other people do not understand this.

PerryHall · March 2, 2009 7:52AM

<< 

<< Me as a collector, when I pull my slabs out to look at coins I do not want the problem thrown in my face, I want to look at the coin. >>

It is bizarre to me that so many other people do not understand this. >>

I guess you guys want to pretend that the coin doesn't have any problems.

BECOKA · March 2, 2009 7:59AM

<< 

<< 

<< Me as a collector, when I pull my slabs out to look at coins I do not want the problem thrown in my face, I want to look at the coin. >>

It is bizarre to me that so many other people do not understand this. >>

I guess you guys want to pretend that the coin doesn't have any problems.

>>

Well, I try to enforce by example to my kids why imagination is so important.

RBinTex · March 2, 2009 8:07AM

Yes.

Fairlaneman · March 2, 2009 8:19AM

<< 

<< 

<< This whole PCGS Genuine service/policy is a big mistake, IMO. >>

I agree. >>

If you would elaborate it might be more interesting if not educational. >>

The following is what I have been seeing on ebay....

"About PCGS Genuine: This means the coin is guaranteed authentic, but did not meet the requirements for numerical certification. This is a result of some type surface anomaly, such as cleaning, artificial toning, polishing, etc. Please examine the photographs in the auction to determine if this coin will suit your collection. PCGS genuine does not mean the coin is less appealing to the eye; we give each coin a letter grade, such as "BU details" to describe the actual condition of the coin."

If the coin is not gradable then I believe it is not BU or what they are really saying MINT STATE.

Later in the listing....

"Coin exhibits BU details with full bands. Will make a great addition to your high-grade certified material."

again not gradable but will make a nice addition to your high grade CERTIFIED material. Its NOT CERTIFIED grade wise. Its in plastic as GENUINE.

"The price wanted to start the auction....$699.00....which is between MS63FB and MS64FB money."

A new person to collecting would just get the shaft big time if they fell for this. The coin in real life is worth $80 to $150 and that is being generous.

The genuine slabs are giving some dealers a easy out to get rid of their buying mistakes without disclosing what problems a coin has. Newbs will fall for this and not find out untill later what really happened to themselves.

Ken

silvergoldnut · March 2, 2009 8:55AM

here's a great example

linky

1865 TWO CENT PIECE PCGS CERT. GREAT COLOR

jnd1955 · March 2, 2009 10:47AM

yes and that is why they should put a grade to it, sometimes pics are very hard to inlarge or see, so if like its a VF put that grade and note the problem to.

i can see that this just opens the door for scammers. sending in know bad coins and get them slab Genuine .and pass
on the bad coin to new collectors . and get a high value for them.

like the few i had BB , for questionable color. well i know they were not mad made toned , so that olny leaves invirolmental damage to bad storage. thats the only thing it could be, but they were unc and proof so they could have recived a grade
with the note of questionable color or invirolmental damage. lease i could give a reason when i sold them. all i could say so they were BB for questionable color. realy i dont even know what questionable color is. its eather someone tryed to tone the coin artafishaly or not, questionable color is not a reason to me, it not an anwser. its a i dont know is what it is,

if pcgs is going to keep doing these type of slab, it must include a not of why pcgs will not grade it,

john

Would any of you favor a PCGS grading designation for some problem coins?

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