Dilemma - when is it Ok to buy a 'problem' coin?

Walkerguy21D · February 22, 2009 10:53PM

I wrestled with this one at the Lakeland coin show on Fri, and finally pulled the trigger. Some background - the 21S is one of the keys to the walker series. In VF20, Bid is $575. In XF40, Bid jumps to $3650, and the few I've seen (in my life) were priced at over $4000. This coin has VF30 to VF35 details. In a legit TPG holder, it would retail at around $2000 +/-. It was priced at slightly UNDER VF20 Bid. The dilemma of course are the marks on the rev. How much of a detriment are they, and would they preclude it from slabbing other than 'Genuine' or NCS?
I realize the problems will 'always be there', but the coin has a lot of positive attributes as well, and it is tough to find at this grade level and above. I spent a lot of time studying it, weighing all factors, before deciding to buy it, so I provided lots of pics to allow you to do the same if you choose to. I'm especially interested in the dealer's thoughts.

mirabela · February 22, 2009 11:28PM

This is where the general phobia of problem coins can work to your advantage. I don't know Walkers, really, but my gut says you probably did pretty well in this case. Those marks are not that big a deal.

airplanenut · February 22, 2009 11:33PM

It's ok when you like the coin. That said, I don't think those are too bad, and I only saw one mark on the first look. Will it slab? That I don't know... but it's an attractive, original coin.

commoncents123 · February 22, 2009 11:33PM

Mostly when it has a chain on the reverse

RYK · February 22, 2009 11:34PM

This is coming up a lot lately:

“Most coins are not perfect or original. Coins that are especially old, scarce, and or valuable deserve to be in holders, should their owners so wish them to be. The way that some imperfections have become acceptable while others are not acceptable is capricious and often irrational.”
-- RYK, on the PCGS chatroom, April 2008.

291fifth · February 23, 2009 12:04AM

When it comes time to sell, that ding in the reverse field will look like a crater on the moon.

RyGuy · February 23, 2009 12:07AM

I think its a nice, original coin and even with the two dings on the reverse it will still slab and receive a grade.

Ryan

mrpotatoheadd · February 23, 2009 12:27AM

I bought a 1921 walker a number of years ago that has a pretty good rim bump on the reverse. I'm perfectly happy with the coin, flaw and all. But then again, resale value was not my top priority as I assembled the set- your priorities may differ.

doh · February 23, 2009 12:28AM

It looks like a nice, original piece. As long as you're happy with it, that's what matters. It might be a little harder to sell when it comes time to do so, but that's the price you pay.

PerryHall · February 23, 2009 12:36AM

<< It looks like a nice, original piece. As long as you're happy with it, that's what matters. It might be a little harder to sell when it comes time to do so, but that's the price you pay. >>

Agree. Just buy it for a price that would allow you to resell it when a nicer no problem coin comes along. Most problem coins are priced too high unfortunately.

messydesk · February 23, 2009 12:52AM

If you think you'll really like it even after the honeymoon period.

GritsMan · February 23, 2009 1:03AM

I like this coin. The marks actually give it some character. Maybe that dent came from a bullet fired by Al Capone???

Walkerguy21D · February 23, 2009 1:38AM

If Al was using a BB gun, maybe!
Thanks all for your inputs and thoughts.

oldfolkie · February 23, 2009 1:44AM

I think you did great, this whole perfection thing is overblown. If I could find a great deal on a 21, or 21D like that I'd take it in a minute. It looks real, sharp, and has character. Way to go!

Kahuna · February 23, 2009 1:55AM

I personally, would not have bought the coin because of that moon dent. Stick to your standards when buying.

fc · February 23, 2009 1:57AM

<< When it comes time to sell, that ding in the reverse field will look like a crater on the moon. >>

yup.

BECOKA · February 23, 2009 2:00AM

I honestly don't think those marks are enough to keep it out of a PCGS graded holder. I think it is an extremely attractive coin and you did well.

Mowgli · February 23, 2009 2:02AM

If it costs $1500 more not to have the two dings on the back....there is no way I wouldn't have bought it myself.

Billet7 · February 23, 2009 2:04AM

I think you did alright. I even think it has a shot at certification. Even if it does certify, it would be net graded down a bit.

Kdog08 · February 23, 2009 2:16AM

Are those hit considered "damage"?

BECOKA · February 23, 2009 2:20AM

<< Are those hit considered "damage"? >>

I don't think so. Which is why I am wondering what the issue is. It's a great looking coin from the photo's.

Walkerguy21D · February 23, 2009 2:32AM

<< << Are those hit considered "damage"? >>

I don't think so. Which is why I am wondering what the issue is. It's a great looking coin from the photo's. >>

Hence the dilemma; if it wasn't for that mark, the purchase decision would have taken 5 sec instead of 5 min. So far it looks like roughly two-thirds or more of the repliers are Ok with it, the rest are seeing it as a big (permanent) zit on a pretty girl's forehead. "yeah, she's got a great personality and everything else, but I keep staring at that zit!"

BECOKA · February 23, 2009 2:34AM

<< 

<< << Are those hit considered "damage"? >>

I don't think so. Which is why I am wondering what the issue is. It's a great looking coin from the photo's. >>

Hence the dilemma; if it wasn't for that mark, the purchase decision would have taken 5 sec instead of 5 min. So far it looks like roughly two-thirds or more of the repliers are Ok with it, the rest are seeing it as big (permanent) zit on a pretty girl's forehead. "yeah, she's got a great personality and everything else, but I keep staring at that zit!" >>

I would take the originality of this coin over some of the dipped out cruddy pieces I have seen in a similar grade. That ding is nothing in this grade level and at auction I would think there are at least 2 folks that think likewise.

RedTiger · February 23, 2009 2:54AM

The theoretical question is "when is it ok to buy a problem coin?" In general, the pat answer is when the buyer knows what they are doing (yes), the coin is hard to find (yes), the buyer has looked at lots of coins in the same date/grade (yes), the price is reasonable after factoring in the problem (yes). Sounds like all systems go to me.

The rest is subjective. Someone with a forum name with Walker21 in it, buying a 21 Walker (though an S not the D) is likely to make as good or better a decision than just about anyone. No need to second guess yourself, you are in the top group of expert collectors for this coin. I would tend to believe that you would be the expert for the others to ask, not the other way around. Some folks offering opinions may have never looked closely at any coins for this date/mintmark and may be talking about theoretical coins that aren't available on the market, that may or may not exist given the scarcity of this date/grade.

As for the coin, my opinion, is that it has a very nice original look. The ding on the back is significant, but it is on the back. Even if in NCS holder, or genuine holder, at true auction, the price paid sounds competitive. Again, you are the expert and odds are high, that if you think you did good, you did good.

leothelyon · February 23, 2009 3:29AM

<< I think you did great, this whole perfection thing is overblown. If I could find a great deal on a 21, or 21D like that I'd take it in a minute. It looks real, sharp, and has character. Way to go! >>

I got to agree and how many other collectors of this series are in the same boat for this scarce coin......aplenty, especially. And how many examples of this date has Walkerguy21D seen that would fit into his collection. He wanted some detail on his coin and he got it!
Same goes for that 09S DB, very nice example with questionable toning which is an opiniion but the coin was genuine.

Leo

RunnersDad · February 23, 2009 3:58AM

I think you did very well. You got great details at a great price. If at some point you did decide to sell and at that time it was holdered in pcgs "genuine" plastic you will get a decent return on your investment. You gotta buy what makes you happy as a collector, as that is why we collect.

50cents · February 23, 2009 5:59AM

Very nice even with the marks on the reverse

It would look great in a raw XF set in an album

zeebob · February 23, 2009 6:30AM

You did well.

Some coins I would never buy. These are coins with something chemical on their surfaces. Carbon spots, ugly toning, corrosion all fall into that category. (I'd have put in verdigress but I don't know how to spell it.)

Some coins I prefer not to buy because I think they'll be difficult to resell. Mechanically cleaned, spotted, badly toned coins fall into this category. Over dipped coins fall into the category too, but on a sliding scale.

Keys and semi-keys wild a little PMD (like your coin) are fine. They are attractive. They won't degrade over time. They should resell with minimal issues, albeit at a bit of a discount for the grade.

Bob

Walkerguy21D · February 23, 2009 10:31AM

Thanks again for the additional inputs, especially RedTiger's, which was extremely insightful and accurate!

Fairlaneman · February 23, 2009 10:35AM

If you like the coin and can continue to like the coin its alright I believe. 100% of the time I cannot continue to like a problem coin.

The crater on the walker would really work on me.

Ken

SmallEagle · February 23, 2009 11:42AM

<< When it comes time to sell, that ding in the reverse field will look like a crater on the moon. >>

Post of the day and the the truth.

Dilemma - when is it Ok to buy a 'problem' coin?

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