if coins graded as full red copper sometimes tone after being slabbed, how do copper coins stay full

barberlover · January 27, 2003 1:45PM

large cents or indian cents grade full red [scarce but not rare] yet lincolns minted in my lifetime get slabed as full red and then tone in the holders. It doesnt make much sense to me but maybe someone can explain why? Isn't modern plastic slabs a safer means of storage for red copper than anything that coin collectors had in the 1850-1900 era ?

Merc · January 27, 2003 1:56PM

I know some collectors of the past coated coins with resins to protect the coin from air. I have also seen origional rolls from the 1950's that are still full red inside. The roll seems to protect the coins while just the rim tones.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · January 27, 2003 1:57PM

As soon as the air or light get to a copper coin anything can happen.Copper coins staying red after 150 years are one of the beauties of collecting RED COPPER.Luck can also be said to be a factor.Slabs are not air tight and the main use of a slab is so people can handle copper coins.And even if a copper coin is in an ICG intercept shield holder doesn't mean Jack Schit.

stewart

spinaker2000 · January 27, 2003 1:59PM

that is a great question, and also consider that there were no environmental controls then either. No central heat and AC.

Placid · January 27, 2003 2:03PM

Maybe alaska or the desert area of arizona would be a good place.

dorkkarl · January 27, 2003 7:56PM

<< <i>Isn't modern plastic slabs a safer means of storage for red copper than anything that coin collectors had in the 1850-1900 era ? >>

no. encased glass, available hundreds of years ago, is safer for copper, or any coin for that matter. the obvious problem is convenience/mobility.

K S

DHeath · January 27, 2003 9:45PM

I put up a thread some time ago about laquer (nail polish), and heard from quite a few guys who said it was common practice to preserve color. A quick rinse in acetone removes it. Apparently, the trick is to apply a very thin coat so the coin is still attractive, but fully protected. This technique is mentioned in the current Photograde. I doubt it accounts for coins of the 19th century, but it is obvious collectors have been working on color preservation for a very long time.

Steve27 · January 27, 2003 9:57PM

They either have to be stored in very stable very dry conditions or treated with a mild acid solution periodically (a little lemon juice perhaps).

nwcs · January 27, 2003 10:21PM

I've seen the lacquer, too. I believe another practice was to use a VCI (Volatile Corrosion Inhibitor). Still, how it was stored means a great deal. Not everything will tone when there are things (like other coins) right next to it that keep it from much direct contact with air. They weren't ignorant back then. They probably experimented the same way we do. Some more successfully than others.

Singapore · January 27, 2003 10:30PM

I have an uncirculated Elephant Token circa 1694 which has about 35% original red and a few early 1700s Hibernia coins that are full original red and it appears to me that all of them were coated with a thin and unobtrusive layer of laquer -

I would venture to guess that 100% of these older red coins have been somehow treated to preserve some color - with the exception of a few that were stored in containers or conditions that 'accidentally' preserved them. But even for these, once they are out of that environment I believe they tone rather quickly.

dorkkarl · January 28, 2003 12:17AM

i mentioned the lacquer thing some time ago. bowers wrote a story once about how, as a kid, he lacqured a bunch of red cents, found em decades later, rinsed off the lacquer, & voila! choice original red cents, hadn't changed a bit.

i've seen quite a lot of large cents & colonials with either lacquer, or residue from ill-removed lacquer. no doubt, that practice was responsible for some of the choice copper available today (& since rinsed).

i may be mistaken (not my realm), but i believe medieval copper coins have even been found w/ some original red on 'em. maybe buried in deserts?

K S

sinin1 · February 22, 2009 8:36AM

anything new on the red copper front in last 5 years?

is it still moisture in air and light?

what does light do?
some chemical reaction to turn brown?

lope208 · February 22, 2009 8:43AM

Interesting question. I didn't even notice this thread was from '03 until the last post

So, anyone put nail polish on their red copper back in aught-three?

GoldenEyeNumismatics · February 22, 2009 8:43AM

1. pure luck.
2. doctoring.

lcoopie · February 22, 2009 8:46AM

Stewart,
Do you do anything special to store your beauties?
asides from thick vault walls

fcloud · February 22, 2009 8:52AM

some of the modern gold coins turn colors once holdered, too. I wonder if there is something in the ring or paper that makes them change.

coinkat · February 22, 2009 9:47AM

I have afew copper coins that were graded and are wrapped in foil.

LeeG · February 22, 2009 10:37AM

ColonialCoinUnion · February 22, 2009 10:41AM

<< <i>

>>

Who removed the lacquer? They did a nice job.

LeeG · February 22, 2009 10:45AM

<< <i>Who removed the lacquer? They did a nice job. >>

Thanks!! I'm proud to say that I must take the credit.

I was very nervous during the whole process. Wasn't sure what was hidden under the laquer.

Now I just wish I could find the coin.

if coins graded as full red copper sometimes tone after being slabbed, how do copper coins stay full

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