OT: The Dark Ages....

ormandh · February 14, 2009 1:48PM

I am watching a program on the History channel called the "Dark Ages." I find this time period both fascinating and romantic, if you will. I am not sure that I would really appreciate much if I actually had to live through these centuries, but there is something that makes me want to know more about it. I guess that I should have been a better student in school when I was studying history. Anyhow, to get this thread coin related, what would I start to collect if I wanted to start focusing on this time period? Is there coinage from this period from Europe/Africa(Moors) that is reasonable to attain and attribute? I do not know that I could even think about the gold issues; I would probably focus on the minors, if there is such a thing. Are there any books on the subject that anyone could suggest?

If anyone has any coinage from this period please post them here. I am looking forward to an input. -Dan

edited to add: Okay maybe not so "romantic" but definitely intriguing.

spoon · February 14, 2009 2:07PM

A very fascinating subject! I could make a list a mile long of actual history books on the topic

For a taste of the coins check out the auctions and lists at Jean Elsen's website under "Haut Moyen Age". Here's a few from the current list.

For coin books, anything (published so far) in the Medieval European Coinage series is excellent.

Depending on where you draw the line there can be quite a few areas to pursue with affordable coins. Of course, the Byzantines offer a rich field. But also there are a lot of affordable Italian types as you get closer to the crusades. Those are my favorite since I can't afford the stuff from up north.

ormandh · February 14, 2009 2:25PM

Wow!! Thanks Eric. I will check Amazon and see if I can find a couple of these. I was looking up the dates of the Dark Ages and I guess the range is 410-1000. That seems to almost fall close to the ancient coinage. I guess I will do some searches on the web for designs. I sort of regret selling my lead seal amulet from the Byzantine era. I sold it for a sweet price, but wish I had it back in my collection.

spoon · February 14, 2009 2:39PM

Those books tend to be pricey. Amazon has the full book search feature for volumes 1 and 14 - which I think they locked me out of for using too much!

If you cut off before the crusades Byzantine, celtic and barbarous imitations will probably be the most affordable. Though early Islamic (contemporary to this time) has just as rich and varied a history and many, many interesting and affordable options for coins. The anglo saxon stuff before the invasion is also pretty neat and popular, with some affordable types.

coachleonard · February 14, 2009 3:46PM

I can sympathize with your fascination ormandh. I remember in college I was obsessed with getting a "Dark Ages" coin because that
was the time of the Vikings-- so it was a big thrill when an 829-42 Byzantine follis I ordered from a mail order dealer arrived. Cool
thing was, it really LOOKED like a Dark Ages coins. Of course the Dark Ages were pretty much in Western Europe, and Dark Ages
coins from Western Europe are pretty scarce and not easy to come by. My first of those was a bronze sceat of Northumbria England
that I actually bought in York England i n 1995 for about $15. It dates 854-62 A.D, and of course I was psyched about that one too.
Since then I have also gotten three silver sceats of England of the 650-720 A.D period-- two came in lots of hammered coins. So I guess
Byzantine coins are your most obtainable coins of the Dark Ages period

Sapyx · February 14, 2009 4:22PM

"Dark Age" or mediaeval coins (roughly from 500 to 1450 AD) are renowned for having fascinating history attached to them, and for being rather poor quality, artistically, compared to either ancient or modern coins.

English hammered coins are very popular in Britain and the English-speaking world generally - they're a logical extension of colonial and pre-colonial coinage.

Crusader coinage is one popular aspect of mediaeval coins that is surprisingly cheap. You can get a recognisable Kingdom of Jerusalem silver denier for $50 or less.

The "Great Powers" of this age were of course the Islamic Caliphate and the Byzantine Empire. Islamic coins are still pretty cheap, compared to coins of similar age and rarity from Europe; the language and culture barriers are the best explanations for this. And Byzantine coins, though cruder than their ancient Roman counterparts, have a charm all their own.

For an excellent overview of the subject, I can recommend "Coins of Medieval Europe" by Grierson. It gives a broad history of European (and Crusader) coinage from the fall of Rome to the Renaissance. English Hammered are covered by Spink and other British coin catalogues. For Byzantine, Sear's catalogue of Byzantine is the best bet. And for Islamic, you're not going to go far without at least some recognition of Arabic as it's been written down through the ages; Richard Plant's "Arabic Coins and How to Read Them" is an excellent book for this, even if it does take you back to your high school and/or university days (he assigns homework for you to do each chapter!).

theboz11 · February 14, 2009 7:02PM

Only collect Black plague cleared coins though

harasha · February 14, 2009 8:50PM

Offhand, I do not know if there is a precise definition for the Dark Ages. Personally, I would make a distinction between the "Dark Ages" and anything after the year 1000, which I would classify as Middle Ages. Just my off the cuff thought. By the time of the Crusades, the written word was making a comeback, shedding light on a Europe darkened by the fall of Rome.

Again, my personal opinion and in ignorance of any formal definition.

ASUtodd · February 14, 2009 11:04PM

Dan, you should watch "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" Wonderful historical movie that talks about the dark ages!!!!

theboz11 · February 14, 2009 11:34PM

If my old mind still remembers those years, I believe it started in or around the 500AD time frame with the eruption of Mt Krakatoa. they were in fact DARK AGES from lack of light that filtered through the Volcanic cloud that shrouded the earth.

Silvereagle82 · February 14, 2009 11:35PM

Ormandh,
Being very interested in gold coins from the Middle Ages (my definition is 750-1500), and through my studies on coins from this period; I think Sapyx's message pretty much sums up your choices.

Good luck !

ormandh · February 15, 2009 12:48AM

Thanks guys! I will do a little research and purchase a few guides and see where it takes me. -Dan

Bjorn · February 15, 2009 2:22AM

Just to add a bit. For the earlier Middle Ages (c. 400 - c. 1000) your most accessible coins would probably come from the Byzantine or Sassanian empires or the Islamic Caliphate. All three states produced lots of coins, the latter two particularly of silver, but remain a bit under appreciated by many in the 'west', who tend to focus on Anglo-Saxon, Frankish and other western European issues. Coins from the later Anglo-Saxons (the tenth and early eleventh centuries) become quite numerous, but due to their cultural cachet (and thus demand) they still tend to bring higher prices than an equivalent Byzantine, Sassanian or Caliphate coin. The Carolingian rulers of France, Germany and northern Italy also seem to have produced a decent number of coins, but once again they tend to go for a bit higher.

In the so-called 'high' and later Middle Ages (c. 1000 - c. 1500) this changes. The English pieces began to increase in numbers, as do both royal and feudal issues in France. The Sassanian issues ended in the mid-600s, so these are long gone from the scene, and I believe that many local issues become more prevalent amongst Islamic states, perhaps indicating the break-up of the Caliphate's political power. I don't know much about Spanish or Balkan issues, but I believe Byzantine issues become more rare as this state begins to disintegrate in the last few centuries of the Middle Ages. By the last century or two of the Middle Ages numerous coins from the low countries (modern-day Belgium, Netherland and Luxembourg began to show up, as do coins from the various German states and eastern Europe.

Bjorn · February 15, 2009 2:24AM

By the way, I forgot to ask - is there a particular region or country that you are most interested in during this time period? Perhaps the coins of a particular ruler? I am sure one of us could give some more detailed information regarding it...

ormandh · February 15, 2009 3:21AM

I don't really know. King Charlemagne maybe? I guess I do not have a whole lot of background on the subject. That is why I am thinking about this era, because I find it intriguing. I often times will look at a coin and try to put myself in the original owners place. What would he be doing? I grew up in Corinth, MS where some of the battles of the Civil War was fought. Behind my house were entrenchments which were dug during the march to the Battle of Shiloh. I often would read books in a tree near these and think what it would have been like to have been in that situation at the time. I sorta still do that with all of my collectibles. Wierd, I know. But, I enjoy learning about the history of different time periods and having a piece from the period, holding it while you read something from that time period is fantastical!!

Anyhow, I will do some research and try to figure out where I want to go with it.

BillyKingsley · February 16, 2009 1:06AM

This is the kind of thread that makes this forum so great. When you can read a thread with several people giving detailed accounts of things that the common person has never even heard of let alone can discuss in detail!

Dan, there is no way this is OT, unless you mean ON topic!

When you do decide to jump into this field, please share your purchases with us. I would like to see what you come up with.

This was an era I coinage I knew nothing about...after reading this thread that is now past tence. I would really love to get into it myself...and I just might!

IloiloKano · February 16, 2009 2:00AM

One can often find pricey books much cheaper if you go to AbeBooks.com. You'll also find out-of-print books there. The link I supplied takes you to the Advanced Search page, but if you wish to use the basic search, then go here.

spoon · February 16, 2009 2:11AM

<< <i>One can often find pricey books much cheaper if you go to AbeBooks.com. You'll also find out-of-print books there. The link I supplied takes you to the Advanced Search page, but if you wish to use the basic search, then go here. >>

Better yet is BookFinder4U. It'll search Abe, Amazon, ebay and a ton more all in one.

ColinCMR · February 16, 2009 7:36AM

the dark ages weren't as dark as one may think

OT: The Dark Ages....

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