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Your lunatic pal LordM just spent a HUNDRED BUCKS on a HOLED Flying Eagle cent!
lordmarcovan
Posts: 45,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
But holey flying eagles, Batman... what a holey it is!
I am now the proud owner of my first-ever MS Flying Eagle cent.
Mint State details with a slight complication, that is.
Even I, the Holey of Holeys, can see the tragedy in this one. But such tragedies are what constitute "trophy" coins for us holey-headed folk.
Think of it as a form of lowball collecting.
Even if I do say so myself, the holeys have better eye appeal than other kinds of lowball coins out there. And as I have just proven, it is still possible to drop a little bit of cash on holeys. Naturally this came from dthigpen, who is the true Holey Lord. He is playing his cards close to his chest at the moment, but this coin is a castoff from his collection, as he has a holey proof.
I'm happy to take his "sloppy seconds". The 1851-C gold dollar (my first Charlotte coin), an 1850 $5 (my first holey US gold bigger than a $3), and the holey Fugio cent (my first Fugio of any flavor) I got from him recently are all groundbreaking additions to this fun if demented collection.
Prior to this, the best Flyer I've ever gotten around to owning was a PCGS XF45.
(Some would argue that that STILL stands as my best ever, haha).
What can I say... I'm just a sucker for poor, abused orphans like this.
I've been told this hole looks awfully modern, but it is not necessarily so, as I see it. They've had drill presses for a long time. And besides, who can you imagine doing something like this to such a coin nowadays?
I am now the proud owner of my first-ever MS Flying Eagle cent.
Mint State details with a slight complication, that is.
Even I, the Holey of Holeys, can see the tragedy in this one. But such tragedies are what constitute "trophy" coins for us holey-headed folk.
Think of it as a form of lowball collecting.
Even if I do say so myself, the holeys have better eye appeal than other kinds of lowball coins out there. And as I have just proven, it is still possible to drop a little bit of cash on holeys. Naturally this came from dthigpen, who is the true Holey Lord. He is playing his cards close to his chest at the moment, but this coin is a castoff from his collection, as he has a holey proof.
I'm happy to take his "sloppy seconds". The 1851-C gold dollar (my first Charlotte coin), an 1850 $5 (my first holey US gold bigger than a $3), and the holey Fugio cent (my first Fugio of any flavor) I got from him recently are all groundbreaking additions to this fun if demented collection.
Prior to this, the best Flyer I've ever gotten around to owning was a PCGS XF45.
(Some would argue that that STILL stands as my best ever, haha).
What can I say... I'm just a sucker for poor, abused orphans like this.
I've been told this hole looks awfully modern, but it is not necessarily so, as I see it. They've had drill presses for a long time. And besides, who can you imagine doing something like this to such a coin nowadays?
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
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(i didnt know you had added a Fugio to the mix)
www.brunkauctions.com
My YouTube Channel
<< <i>Frankly, I'd be tempted to have a plug brazed in and the detail engraved >>
Interesting idea, but that would do me no good as it would then lose its holey status.
I don't make my own holes, but I'll admit I have drilled out one or two plugs (only the crude ones), or "completed" a few partial holes that didn't go all the way through, on a couple of pieces, notably the 1856-S quarter eagle on my Holey Gold Hat.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Very well preserved copper there.
Really nice surfaces and a strong XF in my opinion.
Edited to say... oops, I forgot the images were so small.
<< <i>(i didnt know you had added a Fugio to the mix) >>
It's not a great one. But it's a Fugio. And it cost me only thirty bucks. Looks dug. I can respect that, too, as you know.
Meltdown- yours is a very handsome holey Flyer, with great color, a tidy hole, and excellent hole position. It is nicer than the one I'll be replacing on my vest, I am sure.
Oh- and as to your Seated dollar, it WAY outshines my "Stealth Eagle" example. But I am rather partial to my smoothie. It has character. I suppose if I am to seriously attempt a holey type set, I shall have to get something more like yours, eventually.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Do you have a pic?
My YouTube Channel
<< <i>lordmarcovan, You have a $3 gold that is holed? Do you have a pic? >>
She's really abused, but a "threeagle", nonetheless. I've been told the 1860 is a bit of a sleeper? It's the only $3 I have ever owned.
And here is the rest of the Holey Gold Hat. Minus the newly-added 1851-C dollar, which is lower grade than the one it replaced, but it has the all-important "C" mintmark (though the front serifs of the C got knocked off when it was drilled).
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
That is a very neat coin...
I haven't had a $3 gold, yet...
My YouTube Channel
...........maybe the person was a perfectionist and didn't like the rough edges
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
lordmarcovan
When is your birthday?.......I have a present for ya!
<< <i>the "used" look of meltdowns coin is from the chain slowly wallering the hole to give it a raised edge? >>
I think that's a reasonable theory. I've seen it quite a bit. I would imagine a lot of holey coins did time on watch chains or charm bracelets or necklaces, things like that. His Flyer might not be MS like my new one is, but it has a very nice look (and without the hole, I would eagerly buy an unholed piece with that coloration for a type set).
SUMORADA- you're about two weeks too late. My birthday was 12/28.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
<< <i>
<< <i>the "used" look of meltdowns coin is from the chain slowly wallering the hole to give it a raised edge? >>
I think that's a reasonable theory. I've seen it quite a bit. I would imagine a lot of holey coins did time on watch chains or charm bracelets or necklaces, things like that. His Flyer might not be MS like my new one is, but it has a very nice look (and without the hole, I would eagerly buy an unholed piece with that coloration for a type set).
SUMORADA- you're about two weeks too late. My birthday was 12/28.
It was in a half off box at a local shop here for $20.
I mainly bought it because 150 year old dirt made it look so nice.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
No problem, close enough......pm your shipping info and I'll ship it......there is a catch
If you like what I send you, and decide to keep it you must give a YN of your choice the very next pre 1900 coin you dig up, after receiving your gift, no matter what it is !
<< <i>If you like what I send you, and decide to keep it you must give a YN of your choice the very next pre 1900 coin you dig up, after receiving your gift, no matter what it is !
>>
No deal there, I'm afraid. My detector finds are the one numismatic collection I never sell pieces of. Despite their usually modest monetary value, they have even more sentimental value to me than these holeys do. And it has been far too long since I dug anything pre-1900. I have gotten to the point where I'll give away the Wheaties and occasionally sell a relic or two, but my dug coin album is one of my most sacrosanct personal collections.
However, I have no problem whatsoever with making a nice YN donation in return for your generosity. Thanks. I will PM you.
I take it you're going to remain mysterious on the subject of what this is?
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Gulp! Hmm, at least LM gets to decide after he receives said mysterious item. This could be interesting!
LM - That is an awesome Flyer! My ambition is to have one as nice as Meltdowns but I'd go lower...
BUT, I could do a giveaway whose value is tied to that of whatever my next dug 19th century coin is... that could be interesting!
Carl, if you need a holey Flyer for your cap, I will send you whatever the one I have on the vest is. Might even be a nice one- I don't remember.
I actually have several Flyers on the vest, because all of the buttons on the vest are holey coins, too. In the one instance of my "cheating" and drilling my own holes, I took some truly nasty dug Flyers and Shield nickels that a detecting buddy of mine sold me, and tumbled them in a rock tumbler to remove the crud, then put two holes in the center of each to make buttons.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Ok.......pm the address..
Nice pick-up for your collection.
<< <i>I wonder if "COPY" occupied the spot where the hole is?? Sure looks like a fresh hole. >>
Hey, now there is an interesting, if sobering, thought. I somehow doubt it, but I can see where it might be possible.
I remember seeing a replica 1856 Flyer on eBay that had had the COPY stamp obliterated by a big gouge, then the rest of the coin correspondingly roughed up and dirtied to look like a cull. It could happen, I guess. I rather doubt it in this case, but perhaps those who are more familiar with this series will be knowledgeable enough about the die characteristics to tell if that is the case or not.
I would think most high-quality replica Flyers would be dated 1856 and not 1857, though, surely?
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
OMG.............I may start collecting holey coins
Stefanie
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC FOR SALE
Serves you right for tempting me deeper into the abyss of exonumia.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
<< <i>Nah, an ex-wife would've nailed that eagle right in the ... ahhh... midsection. Right where it hurts the most. >>
Nailed in the mid-section or not it sure would hit his wallet.
<< <i>I wonder if "COPY" occupied the spot where the hole is?? Sure looks like a fresh hole. >>
I was thinking the same thing actually.....I know nothing of the counterfeit diagnostics on FE's however. Maybe someone could chime in.
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
<< <i>I can understand drilling a hole. What I fail to understand is why bother countersinking said hole .
Instead of countersinking, I think someone may have used a manual deburring tool on both sides of the coin.
<< <i>
<< <i>I can understand drilling a hole. What I fail to understand is why bother countersinking said hole .
Instead of countersinking, I think someone may have used a manual deburring tool on both sides of the coin. >>
This has been suggested before.
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
<< <i>I wonder if "COPY" occupied the spot where the hole is?? Sure looks like a fresh hole. >>
I had the same thought. That definitely looks like a recently drilled hole.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
...or just drill a hole through the slab and hang the whole thing!
I'm no expert, but it looks a little suspect, to me. But then, I'm usually a bit on the sceptical side.
I like the Threeagle, though!
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder if "COPY" occupied the spot where the hole is?? Sure looks like a fresh hole. >>
I had the same thought. That definitely looks like a recently drilled hole. >>
Got any reference images of the ones with copy in that location on them sans hole (seems like an odd place, as it'd be off center on the reverse if they were placing it between wreath)? The hole being relatively recent has always been a point of contention, even after looking at it under a microscope, too hard to tell, at least as opposed to the rest of the metal of the coin. So it'd be useful to see exactly where copy would be located, location wise, so it could be matched up exactly to see. The hole is actually off center from the wreathes to the left or I would have originally been skeptical myself, regardless of the dealer whom I originally got it from. I bought it as a weakly stuck MS Flying Eagle Center with a hole that was 'maddening' to the dealer, if I remember correctly.
Images of COPY stamped ones here;
http://cgi.ebay.com/1856-FLYING-EAGLE-CENT-1c-PENNY-BROWN-TONED-COPY-COIN_W0QQitemZ390006393722QQcmdZViewItem
This one isn't a money issue at all on my side. We've done holey transactions back and forth over the years and I would never want to sell him a coin as genuine that I didn't truly believe to be or even have the slightest doubt of being without knowing, as I know he wouldn't with me. I know he'd still want it and pay for it if it was counterfeit, so it's going out to him today, but I think we'd both like to know if any expert in the series can say with some amount of certainty that it is fake and note some diagnostics that are non-contend able. If someone can, I'm still refunding him all his money on it and he gets to keep it, whether he likes it or not.
Now, another alternative theory regarding how clean the whole thing is is that it could have been dipped clean as it is developing some standard toning on the reverse now and that picture is ~3 years old? (no abrasive cleaning marks though)
Good mystery regardless, and always good to have as much input as possible by qualified sources rather than speculation. Neither of us our qualified sources in this department.
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
<< <i>Counter sunk? It looks like a drill bit was used, nice even hole. Drilled halfway thru and then done again on the reverse. Makes a nice smooth look. If its an original era hole its awesome in that its still in MS. Maybe this is the way holes looked when first made and the "used" look of meltdowns coin is from the chain slowly wallering the hole to give it a raised edge? >>
As LordM replied earlier, this is a reasonable theory (counterfeit or not) and one most that looked at it have decided on.
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
fivecents used the image of that coin as contest regarding something in Feb of 2005, it was never suspected to be counterfeit at that point by the entire forum.
AND BINGO... Bought it in December of 2004 from jaderarecoin, Dennis' commentary on it,
<< <i>The FE is unusual. As you quickly noticed, the hole is different than other holes on coins of that era. It appears to have been done with a machine, as it is countersunk on both ends. Ron says that he has owned it for over 30 years. Also, it is high grade, so who would hole a high grade FE? Must be contemporary, imho. >>
And the photo he sent:
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.