My first consignement to Heritage was great, for the buyers - Jan 13th update

seateddime · January 11, 2009 4:08AM

I could never get them to set the reserves and they sold my coins a stupid low prices.

Here is one I wish I had my reserve placed on - 1844 PCGS 10 which I upgraded PCGS guide is $600, hammer with 15% BP - $310.50 - Net $275

I found that they people did try to be helpful but the experience was rocky at best. They did manage to get reserve placed on 2 coins out over 40 (neither sold and I glad). If I had my choice I would preferred to get all my coins back and forgot the whole experience.

Edit: So much for the people being helpful. I am awaiting the return call for someone there prior to posting the email I just got. If I posted it there would be too many comments and to say it was an insult would be beyond and understatement. You would be shocked to read it. I still am and it's been an hour!

coolest · January 11, 2009 4:11AM

1844 what?

tightbudget · January 11, 2009 4:11AM

<< 1844 what? >>

I assume dime?

seateddime · January 11, 2009 4:13AM

<< 1844 what? >>

dime

lcoopie · January 11, 2009 4:13AM

having no experience here,
don't you decide whether to set a reserve?

ajia · January 11, 2009 4:14AM

I don't see an 1844 dime for $600.
At MS64 it's a $700 coin.

seateddime · January 11, 2009 4:14AM

<< having no experience here,
don't you decide whether to set a reserve? >>

I wanted to but they never set them

seateddime · January 11, 2009 4:15AM

<< I don't see an 1844 dime for $600.
At MS64 it's a $700 coin.

[/q?????????????

Coxe · January 11, 2009 4:16AM

Been exactly at the same spot, man, as a consignor.....and more than once.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · January 11, 2009 4:18AM

You got unlucky with the timing of the auction...

seateddime · January 11, 2009 4:22AM

<< You got unlucky with the timing of the auction... >>

Agreed

COALPORTER · January 11, 2009 4:28AM

Heritage has been selling piles of 1844 dimes over the last several months. too the point i'm getting sick of seeing them all the time. think any reserve would have resulted in a non sale.

robkool · January 11, 2009 4:38AM

Another reason why I don't plan on consigning my coins anytime soon...

Mercury10c · January 11, 2009 5:01AM

I've got some stuff coming up on DLRC. I'm sure I'll take a a$$ beating too.

seateddime · January 11, 2009 5:04AM

<< I've got some stuff coming up on DLRC. I'm sure I'll take a a$$ beating too. >>

what coins?

saintguru · January 11, 2009 5:12AM

Don't blame the house, blame the market. This was not a good market to be selling in. Granted, you may have consigned when all was well but anyone in a consigning position runs the risk of market conditions.

I know that the guy who consigned his Saints in Feb '08 for ANA '08 sure was shocked that the market was roaring and got almost 20% more than he expected.

Your only other option is to sell to other collectors, consign to a dealer or Ebay. Personally I'd chose an auction venue.

Perhaps you can buy some stuff cheap at an upcoming sale and "pass it on."

jdimmick · January 11, 2009 5:12AM

I went to look at a collection last week , that was mostly 90%, but in the group was a lot of 10 Choice original VF-AU Liberty seated dimes that the guys father had given him back in 1950. Included in this group was a choice original 1844. The nicest I have seen in mid circ grades. I submitted it to PCGS saturday along with a nice 1854. The one thing I hated was the fact that so many 1844 dimes have come out of the closet lately, that it wont do what it would have a year ago. I sold two others and 6 are on e-bay.

jdimmick · January 11, 2009 5:14AM

A freind of mine had two better date halves in this sale that didnt meet the reserve becuase the market had soften considerably since he consigned them!! 6 months ago, they would have sold!
Jim

Mercury10c · January 11, 2009 5:22AM

<< what coins? >>

The ones that were available here for about 2 weeks. If you want some deals, there should be plenty to be had.

seateddime · January 11, 2009 5:23AM

<< A freind of mine had two better date halves in this sale that didnt meet the reserve becuase the market had soften considerably since he consigned them!! 6 months ago, they would have sold!
Jim >>

If I would have got them to post the reserves I wanted I would have been fine but I could not get them to post them and they sold coins unreserved I never wanted to sell that way.

Bayard1908 · January 11, 2009 5:33AM

<< Seated dime,
how a bout a link or a photo etc, maybe that was all the coin in question was worth, maybe it was the market, a lot of questions, can we get specific? Unless I missed the photo or the link? >>

This guy is a specialist. I trust his assessment that he got hurt.

Boom · January 11, 2009 5:39AM

I recall selling a complete Registry Set through Heritage @ Long Beach, 2005.

I asked Laura (Legend) for some advice as this was my first time going through a major auction house.

She told me (and I remember quite well) "Never out coins to Auction without setting Reserves."

I DID set them on the keys and higher priced coins and did quite well, actually... BUT, I failed to
set reserves on many lesser valued coins and learned a somewhat pricey lesson as several went
for dirt.

**Lessons learned compliments of The School of Hard Knocks are NOT soon forgotten - for sure!

* If ANYONE has coins of value & intends to go this route - do your Homework - set realistic reserves.
When searching past auction results, remember that Buyer's Fees & S/H should be factored in as well.

While the few that did go for little really didn't matter much - I sure am glad I asked Laura and set those reserves.

Buybacks at 5% (unless this # has changed) is far better than losing your coins. Once the paperwork is signed & coins are shipped to Heritage, remember that at that point we all basically lose control over our own coins.

I don't understand how or why you were unable to get your reserves set because I remember getting some rather significant ones set right at the proverbial last minute. Besides all this, the worst part is having to wait some 45 days after the last coin(s) is/ are sold - to receive your money.

When it came time to sell my own Registry Set I was very fortunate to find One buyer thereby incurring no fees owed to any auction venue. Saved myself a considerable amount of money that way!

BAJJERFAN · January 11, 2009 5:55AM

<< 

<< A freind of mine had two better date halves in this sale that didnt meet the reserve becuase the market had soften considerably since he consigned them!! 6 months ago, they would have sold!
Jim >>

If I would have got them to post the reserves I wanted I would have been fine but I could not get them to post them and they sold coins unreserved I never wanted to sell that way. >>

YUP!! Twoud be a cold day in Hades before I'd consign that far in advance.

CertifiedGoldCoins · January 11, 2009 6:19AM

<< If I had my choice I would preferred to get all my coins back and forgot the whole experience. >>

I feel the same way, with eight Double Eagles (six of them CC mint). Lost money on all of them, but got to buy my best one back for the 15%. I watched the auction live, few bids from the floor, which left things up to the Internet bidders. All they could go by were the usual mediocre Heritage images. In the future, I'll try the BST first.

Bear · January 11, 2009 7:05AM

I have always found, that when you ask Laura

a question, she will always give you a straight

answer. There are no Ifs ans or buts about her

advice.

Boom · January 11, 2009 7:32AM

Thanks for bringing me up to speed, Craig. I was not aware of the latest rate.

Regards,

BOOM ~

seateddime · January 11, 2009 8:16AM

I really dont know how to react to this.

I did try to get reserves set for a while. Never could get them to do it. In fact I never signed the paperwork as I want to get my reserves in place.

After emailing for weeks and 4 days before the sale I was told if I placed reserves I would have to 15% buy back fee

Here is a coin I paid $632 for but want to sell as I am changing focus http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1121&Lot_No=10255 it sold for $400, not to good for a $3 Gold and well below the reserve I never got placed.

Many of the coins I sold were outside the Seated Dimes but the semi common date 64's went off for $260, on Ebay the fetch around $325-500,

Any advice?

coolest · January 11, 2009 8:45AM

I sold a 1844 Dime ANACS VF20 for about $550 less than a year ago. No way should a VG dime sell for more than $300.

Can you give some other examples of coins that you thought should have sold for more money because it looks like you got good money for your dime.

Boom · January 11, 2009 8:48AM

Woah! Woah, woah.....WOAH!

Are you 100% positive about this statement?

<< Never could get them to do it. In fact I never signed the paperwork as I want to get my reserves in place. After emailing for weeks and 4 days before the sale I was told if I placed reserves I would have to 15% buy back fee >>

ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THIS?

Who was the employee that managed/ oversaw your coins?

Greg Rohan is a member here and I think he should know about this!

seateddime · January 11, 2009 9:17AM

<< Seated dime,
can you show the link for the 1844 10c please. >>

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1121&Lot_No=7951

coinut1799 · January 11, 2009 10:38AM

Here's my take, for whatever it's worth. If you have coins to consign to Heritage, and the total value is not substantial, you really don't have bargaining power, and your coins may end up in the floor sale, after the Signature sale (as the 1844 dime did). The floor sale is really a mop up sale, and you should have coins in it only if you are dumping them for whatever the market will bring.
If you have a substantial consignment you can negotiate a lot of things, such as reserves, buy-back fees, and the commission to be paid. I consigned a number of coins to the Summer ANA sale, and the ones in the Signature portion did very well, with no buy-back fee. I negotiated reasonable reserves with my representative, and only two coins were unsold (out of 17). However, I was lucky with my timing, and doubt that I would have been nearly as successful if the same consignment were in the FUN sale.

Boom · January 11, 2009 10:45AM

The inability to set reserves on your own coins, by what you have expressed here, has cost you a substantial amount of money and if what transpired did so as you say, this falls on the employee that misguided you.

Greg Rohan needs to be made aware of this so that he may help you.

pennyannie · January 11, 2009 11:13AM

I went over to Heritage in October to put 25 coins in the FUN auction. I was shooting the breeze with the guy and ask him what Heritage would buy them for straight cash. I had looked before i went there and made a list up of what i thought i might get at auction for them using realistic numbers, minus fee's etc. There cash buy offer exceeded what i tought i would get at auction and left with a check in hand. I am glad i did as i watched those coins sell for less. I just had a bad feeling in October. I sold alot of coins in October on Ebay and some the first of November for decent prices. I had a few that never paid and i just let them lay around. I listed them a few weeks ago and i thought they would not sell. A easy sell 6 months ago and now no intrest.

Maybe Heritage will work with you a little over the foul up.

Boom · January 11, 2009 12:59PM

Jason, if what you have attempted to express here is true (and I have no reason to doubt you) AND

if what you have conveyed to me in private is what happened - I STRONGLY encourage you to bring this to Greg Rohan's attention as this is NOT the way it's supposed to be nor was it this way when I consigned.

I set reserves and I feel confident that most here that have sold through Heritage have as well.

Don't take it on the chin. Call Mr. Rohan with the facts.

Good Luck,

Boom ~

Coxe · January 11, 2009 1:20PM

I know I have had some bad results in my consignments at various times. But the problems were squarely because of the bidding itself and/or my reserves, either low prices realized or crazy buybacks. All, though, was straight by the rules. I have not had a problem with Heritage as a consignor that I can recall ever. As others said, you should talk with Greg Rohan and see if the problem was poor communication with your consignment director, novice error, or something else. They are a class operation and do try to please their custoomers (bidders and consignors) and are always looking to improve things. Good luck.

19Lyds · January 11, 2009 1:38PM

<< I could never get them to set the reserves and they sold my coins a stupid low prices. >>

<< Don't blame the house, blame the market. This was not a good market to be selling in. >>

If the consignor wanted and asked for a reserve to be set, yet "the house" didn't set a reserve,

Why not blame the house?

Personally, if my request to set a reserve had been bungled, I'd be extremely pissed that "the house" failed to set a reserve and my couins sold for less than what I would have wanted!

My question to the OP is: When did you ask for the reserves? At consignment time or after the fact?

elwood · January 11, 2009 1:46PM

I know you didn't get the results you wanted, but maybe in a couple months

if the market really tanks you'll be glad you got what you did for these coins?

1844 Seated Dimes are waaaaay overated and as an educated Seated Collector you should know that.

They started to soften up 3 years ago. After the hoard was trying to be sold.

That 56-S $3 looked like a nice coin. The ANACS holder probably hurt. Shoulda crossed it?

mike92694 · January 11, 2009 1:52PM

<< 

<< Seated dime,
can you show the link for the 1844 10c please. >>

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1121&Lot_No=7951 >>

Hmm.

According to the recent auctions, the prices for these sold for around the $290 range. Yes, I know these are ANACS holders, but at VG10, I believe that $310 is a comparably good result.

Coinosaurus · January 11, 2009 2:00PM

This market is strange to me - I've only been seriously collecting about ten years and everything has been straight upward it seems.

If I have anything to sell this year it will go on consignment at fixed price, and not to the auction houses. I don't need those kind of surprises.

In the meantime I think this is the market where you really concentrate on the buy side - and it will pay off down the road.

OregonCityGold · January 11, 2009 3:06PM

I'm confused... The OP's story isn't totally consistent. I don't think we got all the facts here.

On one hand, the OP is implying that the house screwed up and wouldn't set reserves as he instructed. On the other hand, the OP wrote that "After emailing for weeks and 4 days before the sale I was told if I placed reserves I would have to 15% buy back fee ," which suggests that Heritage gave him the opportunity to set the reserves, but the OP balked at the 15% buy-back term.

Is 15% the standard buy-back fee for unsold reserves? If it's usually lower, and Heritage waited to the last minute to respond to squeeze the OP to pay more at the last minute, then that would be a pretty crappy way to treat a consigner. But if 15% is customary, and the OP initially didn't want to set reserves, changed his mind after consigning, got the 15% quote that consigners get when they don't negotiate before handing their coins over, then decided 15% was too high, went with his initial no-reserve decision, got bloodied on auction night, and is now upset with his own decision not to negotiate reserve terms before consigning or take the 15% deal after, then that would be a tough lesson for the OP, but not Heritage's fault.

So what happened?

Also, anyone here want to admit they won those lots?

Torrero · January 11, 2009 11:18PM

I too, would be very careful about making a statement that heritage failed to set the reserves you requested. Everyone, including heritage can make mistakes, but it certainly has never been my experience. I recall that everything like buyback fees, reserves, etc. are always negotiated and spelled out clearly in the auction contract. You should complain immediately to Todd Imhoff or Greg Rohan.

Jay

saintguru · January 11, 2009 11:32PM

Everyone blames someone but themselves.

I'm always cautious when consigning coins...and I expect the worst and take better with a smile.

Blaming the house is just sour grapes. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.

Torrero · January 11, 2009 11:45PM

As a buyer, I truly hate it when coins have a reserve. I just took a look at some of the featured collections that heritage sold in FUN. I thought Friend, Lemus, Mossman, Oneal, Arno, Omaha all sold for very impressive prices especially in light of the economy. Even most of the coins in that Scott Rudolph collection did really well despite having been acquired in a much stronger market. More to the point, every one of these huge collections were sold completely without reserve. But I'm sure you're smarter than these multi-million dollar collectors

Jay

mrpotatoheadd · January 11, 2009 11:53PM

<< As a buyer, I truly hate it when coins have a reserve. >>

I was wondering if anyone was going to say that. There have been lots of threads here where people complained about reserves when buying, so it struck me as kind of odd that there've been as many recommendations for setting reserves when selling as there have been so far.

Raufus · January 12, 2009 12:07AM

<< This market is strange to me - I've only been seriously collecting about ten years and everything has been straight upward it seems.

If I have anything to sell this year it will go on consignment at fixed price, and not to the auction houses. I don't need those kind of surprises.

In the meantime I think this is the market where you really concentrate on the buy side - and it will pay off down the road. >>

I've definitely been buying, but am still quite nervous. I've been able to aquire some items at about 60% of last year, but looking back where these items were 10 years ago, there is still a LOT of room to fall if the down turn continues. Just like stocks, no one can predict the bottom.

dthigpen · January 12, 2009 12:08AM

The market is strange these days, especially for eccentric stuff. For everything other than "junk", I think I've decided to just peddle the rest of the stuff I'm looking to cull myself and take the time to find the right buyers.

coincollector2007 · January 12, 2009 12:37AM

Should not reserves be set out in the consignment agreement?

PCGS coins should bring more than ANACS, why was the $3 gold not crossed over before the sale?

au58 · January 12, 2009 6:22AM

<< I really dont know how to react to this.

I did try to get reserves set for a while. Never could get them to do it. In fact I never signed the paperwork as I want to get my reserves in place.

After emailing for weeks and 4 days before the sale I was told if I placed reserves I would have to 15% buy back fee

Here is a coin I paid $632 for but want to sell as I am changing focus http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1121&Lot_No=10255 it sold for $400, not to good for a $3 Gold and well below the reserve I never got placed.

Many of the coins I sold were outside the Seated Dimes but the semi common date 64's went off for $260, on Ebay the fetch around $325-500,

Any advice? >>

In my opinion, coins valued at under $1,000 should not be consigned to auction. There are too many variables working against the seller and there is too much cost associated with cataloging low value items to make it worth the auctioneers time or (best) effort.

The best advice I can offer is to establish a solid working relationship with dealers who handle your material.

About two years ago, I listed about 14 Seated halves on ebay (this was just about the time ebay was starting to lose its luster.
These were nice coins. The aveage retail ranged from about $350 to about $900. I had decent pictures and fair starting prices (some would argue for 99 cents, but I was about 60% to 75% of bid). There were no reserves beyond the minimum opening bid. Only three or four sold. The others had no bids.

Later, I consigned these coins (and about 30 others I had planned to sell) to Dick Osburn. His terms and projected sales prices significantly exceeded my expectations. In time, all sold (including the 10 or so that had been previously listed on ebay) at legitimate retail prices.
It took a little while, but I was not in a hurry.

There is a solid collector market for good stuff. To reach that market requires skill, knowledge, experience, resources, insight, awareness, and exposure.

My first consignement to Heritage was great, for the buyers - Jan 13th update

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