ARod V. Pujols
joeknowscards
Posts: 49
What do you guys think? Who's cards will have greater value in 15 years or will they be equally as valuable?
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In terms of who's got the more valuable cards, which cards are you going to compare? A-Pu's got #ed and autoed rookies. A-Rod does not.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>A-Rod does have a #'ed rookie card....leaf limited 1994 /5000 >>
Ah, I forgot about that one. A-Rod doesn't have any auto'ed rookies though.
What's the print run on those 2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols Auto'ed cards?
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>
<< <i>A-Rod does have a #'ed rookie card....leaf limited 1994 /5000 >>
Ah, I forgot about that one. A-Rod doesn't have any auto'ed rookies though.
What's the print run on those 2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols Auto'ed cards? >>
Print run is #'d /500, but not all 500 were redeemed according to the head guy at Topps. He claims someone contacted them a few years back wanting to buy all their back inventory that were not redeemed, but once the redemptions expired, they claim that all left over 2001 Bowman Chrome Pujols cards were destroyed.
I have heard it estimated that about 300-400 were redeemed, but who knows the true exact number. Either way, it's less than 500 redeemed, and that is all we can know for sure.
Neither player will have cards in high demand (compared to players like Ruth, Clemente, Koufax, Mantle, etc.)
The majority of cards from both players were Mass Produced and have been Hoarded in large amounts in Pristine Condition.
Why...... because (modern) collectors/investors always THINK they will have greater value in the future, and this alone will kill future value.
Just look at Beanie Babies and Starting Lineups for extreme examples.
You can not compare cards that are now 40+ years old with modern cards 40 years from now. They are 2 different animals.
A 40+ year old card has naturally become rarer over time (played with, used and abused, rubber banded, trashed, damaged, lost), Modern Cards will never have this aspect.
Anything produced in the Price Guide Generation (post 1980) will suffer long term value decline. Plastic Sheets, $3+ a pack, Grading Companies, and ease of buying a complete set (not putting sets together series by series/card by card) have also helped kill the long term investment potential.
Even the artificially intentionally rare 1/1 cards will never pull big $$ once the initial hype dies down. Their value will slowly slide down once the player retires and the hype dies a bit (ie Montana, Ryan, Schmidt, Jordan)
On 99% of their cards....... if the Demand spikes, the Supply will cover it easily and then some.
Most of the cards made in the last 25+ years will be known as "collector issues". A true Collector Issue is a set that was made to be sold as a complete set without a product (ie TCMA, Conlon Collection, update sets, etc.).
The difference between a "Collector Issue" and a "True Baseball Card".......
For over 100 years (1880-1980) Collector Cards HAD always been included FREE with a product or service of some kind. Most of the sets had to be Built 1 card at a time. Thats not the case anymore, the card is the product and instantly has preconceived value.
PS. Both players signatures are extremely common too and they will be signing thousands of items a year for the next 40-50 years. So a signed card is no big deal.
Example:
If A-Rod passes the home run record then his 1994 SP and 1994 Leaf Limited /5000 will certainly rise.
<< <i>Neither player will have cards in high demand (compared to players like Ruth, Clemente, Koufax, Mantle, etc.) >>
The OP was asking about ARod vs Pujols, not A-Rod and A-Pu vs the vintage legends.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>
<< <i>Neither player will have cards in high demand (compared to players like Ruth, Clemente, Koufax, Mantle, etc.) >>
The OP was asking about ARod vs Pujols, not A-Rod and A-Pu vs the vintage legends. >>
Bingo
And to answer the original question.... I'll take Pujols hands down. Serial numbered rookie card autographs will be key.
<< <i>Time for my monthly rant
You can not compare cards that are now 40+ years old with modern cards 40 years from now. They are 2 different animals. >>
Your the only one who did........
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
<< <i>
PS. Both players signatures are extremely common too and they will be signing thousands of items a year for the next 40-50 years. So a signed card is no big deal. >>
LOL so wrong its funny............
Pujols can sign 1,000,000 more cards from here till eternity....but the number of ROOKIE CARDS WILL NEVER INCREASE!
i own 2 or three autos that arent from 2001....to me, they are too common to collect.....BUT HIS ON CARD ROOKIE AUTOs are worth more than their weight in gold (literally).....
all signs point to Pujols being a top 10 player of all time....i think that means they will hold value 50 years from now....
Remember in 75 years kids will learn...Ruth, Williams, Pujols.....
as for the OP, Arods cards were mass produced, Pujols top rookie cards are numbered to 25.....see the difference?
I also believe PUjols cards have peaked, and will continue to come down, so wouldn't recommend picking anything expensive of his up for awhile. they may go back up, if he can put up stellar numbers...but i am not convinced of his age or his back or that he will pass the test of longevity....
both could be potential bad gambles....go with manny...
<< <i>The only thing Canseco knows A-Rod injected something into is his wife.. That is why he has it in for A-rod is because of the rumored relationship between A-Rod and Cansecos wife. >>
He said he has info on AROD, not on his wife. I am not going to speculate at this time if there is any legitimacy to his claims or not, i just wouldn't recommend a buy on his $1500+ sp die cut rookie, nor would I buy pujols bc auto at this time....JMO
<< <i>Don't know legitimacy of the claim, but Jose Canseco mentions AROD in his current book and says he will provide details and evidence at the "right time". I think canseco is a slime ball to rat out players for money, but i also believe there is a certain legitimacy to his claims. if he does as he professes, he could kill arod cards.... i am sorry to hear this about arod, but i have dumped my expensive cards of his....only keeping this one...
I also believe PUjols cards have peaked, and will continue to come down, so wouldn't recommend picking anything expensive of his up for awhile. they may go back up, if he can put up stellar numbers...but i am not convinced of his age or his back or that he will pass the test of longevity....
both could be potential bad gambles....go with manny...
the age question about Pujols is a joke! Every year of his life is documented, he has been a baseball phenom since he was 9 years old (and was raised by his religous grandmother)....unless he startied lying about his age when he was 8, his age is true... and the back comment, also unfounded....he had plantar facitis in 2005 and that has been resolved with high tech frequency treatments....his elbow has been hurt since 2002, yes 2002! has it affected him --not in the least.....
only pujols haters bring up his age and his health....the guy is a bull and plays through minor injuries many players would sit with....
also he is one of the few players who doesnt have a down year after signing a monster contract--the guy is just a marvel....instead of hating, why dont you enjoy watching one of the greatest players of our time (not to mention his insanely ridiculous consistency)-
-not to mention he is the ONLY athlete to throw a NON ALCOHOLIC NEW YEARS EVE CHARITY BALL EVERY YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
edited to add--- how is pujols a bad gamble--like hes a flash in the pan, come on man, get with it! only the best seven years to start a career and this year aint to shabby either----he has reached base EVERY GAME HES PLAYED in and has a sick OPS
<< <i>
.... also he is one of the few players who doesnt have a down year after signing a monster contract--the guy is just a marvel....instead of hating, why dont you enjoy watching one of the greatest players of our time (not to mention his insanely ridiculous consistency)-
-not to mention he is the ONLY athlete to throw a NON ALCOHOLIC NEW YEARS EVE CHARITY BALL EVERY YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
edited to add--- how is pujols a bad gamble--like hes a flash in the pan, come on man, get with it! only the best seven years to start a career and this year aint to shabby either----he has reached base EVERY GAME HES PLAYED in and has a sick OPS >>
I am by far a pujols hater....He is one of my favorites, and he is great...no question about it. I also agree with his religious beliefs. I just don't think he is a good gamble at this time. His cards have continued to come down for quite awhile now. I do not think they have come close to bottoming out. He had peak seasons which drove up his prices. Hopefully he will continue to do well and add to his numbers. The hype is over with for now...especially with so many hot rookies out their to garnish the hype...perhaps a spark as he reaches a big milestone or has a killer year, but for now, i think his prices will continue to tumble. He also has TOO many different rookies...
As soon as he does have a "bad" year (and you must admit he will have bad years ahead of him), will probably be when i pick up a couple of his nice cards....now just isnt the right time.
talk to me in 5-10 more years...who knows what the future holds, his elbow may explode any day and he's gone for the season. Blows out a knee etc.
Currently he is in the top 3 of all players in the game, I hope he can continue to put up mind boggling numbers, but I'm happy to enjoy the ride.
<< <i>"all signs point to Pujols being a top 10 player of all time"
talk to me in 5-10 more years...who knows what the future holds, his elbow may explode any day and he's gone for the season. Blows out a knee etc.
Currently he is in the top 3 of all players in the game, I hope he can continue to put up mind boggling numbers, but I'm happy to enjoy the ride. >>
Albert's own words in the interview on FSN, stated he has had this elbow issue since 2003, not 2002.
Anyway, he has played at least 5 full seasons with it like it is right now. The doctors told him he may play his entire career and never have to have it operated on. But, even if he does have to have it operated on during his playing career, it's not like it's a career ender. Just a set back of 6-8 months according to Cardinals' team doctors. If it was to be operated on in November, he might miss half of one season.
It's sure not affecting him right now. Once again, going into tonight, he was hitting .348, 8 hrs, 26 rbi, .503 on base, and .600 slug.
One of the most special hitters and human beings MLB has had in quite some time.
<< <i>edited to add--- how is pujols a bad gamble--like hes a flash in the pan, come on man, get with it! only the best seven years to start a career and this year aint to shabby either----he has reached base EVERY GAME HES PLAYED in and has a sick OPS >>
I read that and can only think of all the poor collectors who were loading up on Frank Thomas rookies in 1999.
<< <i>I love Pujols and hope he ends up with a career that makes his cards among the few of the modern era to retain or even appreciate in value over the long haul. But some of your statements are pretty rash:
<< <i>edited to add--- how is pujols a bad gamble--like hes a flash in the pan, come on man, get with it! only the best seven years to start a career and this year aint to shabby either----he has reached base EVERY GAME HES PLAYED in and has a sick OPS >>
I read that and can only think of all the poor collectors who were loading up on Frank Thomas rookies in 1999. >>
Frank Thomas never had limited rookie cards, or limited rookie card autographs, either.
<< <i>I love Pujols and hope he ends up with a career that makes his cards among the few of the modern era to retain or even appreciate in value over the long haul. But some of your statements are pretty rash:
<< <i>edited to add--- how is pujols a bad gamble--like hes a flash in the pan, come on man, get with it! only the best seven years to start a career and this year aint to shabby either----he has reached base EVERY GAME HES PLAYED in and has a sick OPS >>
I read that and can only think of all the poor collectors who were loading up on Frank Thomas rookies in 1999. >>
I can't believe this-- has Albert Pujols really reached base in every MLB baseball game in which he's participated?
<< <i>
Frank Thomas never had limited rookie cards, or limited rookie card autographs, either.
Touche...
Yes, his BC Auto will NEVER dip to Frank THomas RC prices....but they will dip...
<< <i>
<< <i>
Frank Thomas never had limited rookie cards, or limited rookie card autographs, either.
Touche...
Yes, his BC Auto will NEVER dip to Frank THomas RC prices....but they will dip... >>
We'll see, but I have my doubts to your thinking. It's the icon card of the modern card collecting era, kinda like the 52' Topps Mantle was to that generation.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Frank Thomas never had limited rookie cards, or limited rookie card autographs, either.
Touche...
Yes, his BC Auto will NEVER dip to Frank THomas RC prices....but they will dip... >>
We'll see, but I have my doubts to your thinking. It's the icon card of the modern card collecting era, kinda like the 52' Topps Mantle was to that generation. >>
I agree with it's iconic stature...but...
Do you have any clue what his BC auto price chart would look like over the past year? Does VCP have charts?
Sure, as with any player, prices will rise and fall with each season, depending on what happens stat wise. I mean in the end, when Pujols is all said and done, the BC will always bring fairly strong money, in my opinion.
EDIT: Got ya now, after you edited to clarify.
<< <i>I'm not sure what you are asking, but I have heard you claim in the past that his BC will dip to 1,000 or less. That is what I am doubting.
Sure, as with any player, prices will rise and fall with each season, depending on what happens stat wise. I mean in the end, when Pujols is all said and done, the BC will always bring fairly strong money, in my opinion.
EDIT: Got ya now, after you edited to clarify. >>
I haven't really tracked Pujols cards to be honest, but i know the trend is downward....it isn't a good time to buy when the trend is downward.
I have tracked AROD's SP DIE CUT, over the past few years, and it has gone from $300 to over $2000, and back down to about $1500, and continue to slide. I believe it is feasible that this card could be had in the future following a bad season to under $600. Surely, you must believe Pujols will have bad seasons ahead of him, and when the fans aren't so excited...that will be a good time to buy. History repeats itself. Cards have a definite cycle. We can continue to agree to disagree, and only time will show who was accurate. I am not above being wrong...but it's just not in the cards (pun intended)..
<< <i>I love Pujols and hope he ends up with a career that makes his cards among the few of the modern era to retain or even appreciate in value over the long haul. But some of your statements are pretty rash:
<< <i>edited to add--- how is pujols a bad gamble--like hes a flash in the pan, come on man, get with it! only the best seven years to start a career and this year aint to shabby either----he has reached base EVERY GAME HES PLAYED in and has a sick OPS >>
I read that and can only think of all the poor collectors who were loading up on Frank Thomas rookies in 1999. >>
YAWIE great to hear from you!
Boopots, Pujols has reached base safely every game THIS YEAR, hes at 41, the record is 81 i believe...
unfortunately VCP does not track 2001 cards, wish they did!
BC rookie PSA 9 has not sold for under $3000 for 5 years now......dont see any drop in sight
the cards that have dropped are the following: Upper deck, fleer Tradition, topps traded, topps chrme traded...in other words THE MASS PRODUCED CARDS.....his cards numbered to 500 and less continue to climb.....i track them weekly (daily)
<< <i>"all signs point to Pujols being a top 10 player of all time"
talk to me in 5-10 more years...who knows what the future holds, his elbow may explode any day and he's gone for the season. Blows out a knee etc.
Currently he is in the top 3 of all players in the game, I hope he can continue to put up mind boggling numbers, but I'm happy to enjoy the ride. >>
TOP 3? WHO IS BETTER? better yet, who has been better this millenium?
please dont say Arod cause he puts his head between his legs as soon as it turns October....HHUGE STRIKE AGAINST AROD.....not to mention his own yankee fans dont like him, how popular can he be throughout the country/world.
<< <i>
unfortunately VCP does not track 2001 cards, wish they did!
BC rookie PSA 9 has not sold for under $3000 for 5 years now......dont see any drop in sight
>>
Not sure why anyone would buy a 9 for over $3000, when a 10 can be had for $4800? Didn't those use to sell for $10k+?
I also have noticed over the past several months that I see a lot of people trying to sell his bc auto, but they go unsold... The demand at the asking price is not there. Sure when there are only 500, the sellers can hold out, but the market will not sustain the asking price. Wait for a bad season, I am relatively sure you will see a drop from current prices....or don't you think he will ever have a bad season, or that his cards will begin to fade as he ages before retirement. Please don't consider me a Pujols hater, just because i believe in the cyclic values of modern cards.
when the first one came out, it was $12,000
then another came out and it was $10,000
then the third cam out and it was $8000
then the fourth camout and it was $4800
im not buying GRADING RARITIES, im buying RARITIES.....see the difference...
CD NUTS will explain why this is so....
i didnt say buy the PSA 10 as that will continue to drop, i say buy the PSA 9's and the RARE issues serial numbered
Shane
<< <i>there are only 4 psa 10's....
when the first one came out, it was $12,000
then another came out and it was $10,000
then the third cam out and it was $8000
then the fourth camout and it was $4800
im not buying GRADING RARITIES, im buying RARITIES.....see the difference...
CD NUTS will explain why this is so....
i didnt say buy the PSA 10 as that will continue to drop, i say buy the PSA 9's and the RARE issues serial numbered >>
hmmm 12K, 10K, 8K, 4K.....sounds like a good investment to me....
If they continue to drop and a PSA 10 can be had for $4800, then why pay $3000 for a psa 9?
I don't believe CD's logic that high grade vintage key cards will one day be worth just slightly more than lower grades (his example PSA 8 clemente vs PSA 10 clemente). (with modern, it is a bit more believable, especially on rare cards, but never with key vintage).
The reason there are only 4 psa 10s is because BGS has market on modern cards. For a better sampling, can you tell me the prices of raw or bgs graded 2001 pujols bc auto over the years?
VERY NICE, a collection to be proud of!! My hat's off to you!
Bgs does not hold control over Pujols rookies....the biggest Pujols collectors i know, prefer PSA...
BGS only holds dominance on 2002-2008 Bowman Chrome Red blue green blah blah blah refractors.."the chromies" as they call themselves...very narrow range to what BGS dominates, and those are generally kids, not bigtime collectors.....
hofautos, did you check out my collectors showcase Pujols set?
I can get a 2001 E-X with some minor chipping, it wouldn't grade high (maybe an 8) but it's numbered to 499. Do you think I should pick it up even though it's not in perfect condition and hold onto it?
Joe
My eBay Auctions
<< <i>fandango
I can get a 2001 E-X with some minor chipping, it wouldn't grade high (maybe an 8) but it's numbered to 499. Do you think I should pick it up even though it's not in perfect condition and hold onto it?
Joe >>
Joe,
It's not a card that will ever really amount to much value, but if you like the card, that's all that would really matter.
the Fleer E-X is a very tough AND valuable card....most have some chipping and to find this card in any condition is tough..not to mention it is a really cool looking card with a metallic reflective surface not found in any other card! definately i would pick one up if the price is right!
the card was issued in packs of Fleer platinum RC, NOT if the Fleer E-X packs, and im sure there are way less than the 499 serial numbers.... (especially considered how many made it into slabs)
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I never really disagree with too many things Stan The Man says , but this one here I got to say could be wrong gievn the condition sensitivety & # of cards, if he does happen to break the HR record,.
J/M/O though
I would and never could do something like that because I don't think I have the cash to , but what if someone could , what would something like that do for the card ?
I have always thought about things like that . .
I just believe that if he does break the HR record, the key ones that will bring a premium, will be the autographed 2001 rookie cards. That is what I was meaning. Yes, the Fleer EX will be worth something, but not really considered a big key card to chase. I am guilty of using poor wording to describe my thoughts and personal preferences. As a Pujols collector, the Fleer EX is just not a card that trips my trigger. I just don't see it ever being a card that folks will go crazy for, but I may be wrong, if he does set the HR record.
<< <i>A-Rod is the best player in baseball right now. >>
clearly a remark to provoke....
find me 10 male AROD fans in NY.....you cant!
Pujols is so much better in the Clutch and the post season than Arod its laughable......
Only thing better on ARODs side is his contract.....
just look at the numbers....
2008 OPS WALKS K's
Pujols 1.114 104 54
AROD .965 65 117
Put Pujols on the yanks in place of AROD and he may have had 8 of the best offensive seasons ever from 2001-2008 (Oh wait , Pujols did have one of the best 8 straight years ever.... and he was surrounded by AAA players )
WS rings: Arod < Pujols
HR's: Arod > Pujols
Looks better wearing Lip gloss: Arod > Pujols
Cougars: Arod > Pujols
Subject of more cu threads: Arod < Pujols
Better player imo: Arod < Pujols
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