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Hypothetical: you've agreed to a deal to sell a certain lot of coins at a certain price, and ...
mirabela
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While you are going through the coins to package them, you find that one of them is a scarce RPM/OMM variety worth, say five times the price you gave for this coin when you itemized the lot, though still only half the lot total.
What do you do? Do you follow through with the deal and send away the scarce variety? Do you pull it and refund the difference? Do you scurry to find a replacement coin (let's suppose the buyer has not seen a photo)?
Would if make any difference if the coin were worth, say, fifty times the itemized price and ten times the lot total?
I'll be interested to hear your responses.
What do you do? Do you follow through with the deal and send away the scarce variety? Do you pull it and refund the difference? Do you scurry to find a replacement coin (let's suppose the buyer has not seen a photo)?
Would if make any difference if the coin were worth, say, fifty times the itemized price and ten times the lot total?
I'll be interested to hear your responses.
mirabela
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It reminds me of a situation, circa 1980, when I was getting out of foreign coins. I took most my remaining collection to a local show and offered the lot to a local dealer in foreign coins. The offering price was very reasonable since I just wanted to be rid of them. The dealer immediately began badmouthing the coins. While flipping through the coins, I noticed that I had mistakenly left a very rare Ethiopian coin in the lot. The dealer continued to badmouth the coins, trying to get my price down. (Please note that the dealer hadn't accepted my offer.) I announced that the offer was cancelled and took the box of coins back. The dealer became very perturbed and asked me why I had suddenly changed my mind. I took out the rare Ethiopian coin and told her (yes, her) that the coin was worth several times my asking price for the whole lot. Suddenly, she changed her tune and insisted I sell her the lot for the original asking price. I informed her in no uncertain terms that she had not accepted my offer when it was valid, packed up my coins and left. I could see she was really unhappy and threw me an insulting comment as I left. I never did business with her again.
A board member is going to get a very cool & unexpected Jefferson variety.
Next question ...
Do I let the buyer discover it for him/herself (insert devilish cackle & waving pitchfork here) or do I point it out?
Don't answer that. I'll point it out ...
Thanks --
Matt
<< <i>If your a ANA member you go through with deal >>
Oddly enough, my membership lapsed this month, LOL
Don't worry, the coin will go as planned.
I think, though, that this is a situation where according to ANA rules I could hold onto the coin if I were inclined to play that way. I agreed in writing to sell a 19**-X Jefferson in MS6* grade with light gray toning -- not necessarily this one, as no images were ever shared of the coin in question.
Like I said, done deal, no biggie. My take-home lesson? Look everything over really carefully before offering it for sale.
<< <i>Don't worry, the coin will go as planned. >>
In that case, what's the harm in telling us about the coin? Any pics?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If the coin is worth 5x what the high bid was and you didnt get to advertise it as the rare rpm/omm then that sucks.
I guess you have to let someone you dont even know take advantage of you.
If the buyer has seen the coins or a good picture of them then you are obligated.
If he's seen only a list then you simply don't have the coin on the list and can't follow through (this is not the specified coin after all).
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
Doesn't sound like an issue to me or you have too many coins. You sell these coins and finally look at them? Your all of a sudden an RPM/OMM expert but didn't ever notice it. Hypothetical for sure.
Hoard the keys.
and told them I was reluctantly putting it in the mail due to the coolness factor of the coin. They understood
completely.The buyer received a nice surprise when the check was mailed back to them.
Steve
<< <i>It depends.
If the buyer has seen the coins or a good picture of them then you are obligated.
If he's seen only a list then you simply don't have the coin on the list and can't follow through (this is not the specified coin after all).
>>
I think it's a moot point, but then... It's the seller's choice. If he can excuse his conscience by cherrypicking after the agreement to sell, it's basically his to do with what he chooses. Tough situation, though. Personally, I would separate the find, ship it, and let the new buyer know just how well he scored.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Please remember, the coin is going to the buyer, period. But still ...
<< <i>While you are going through the coins to package them, you find that one of them is a scarce RPM/OMM variety worth, say five times the price you gave for this coin when you itemized the lot, though still only half the lot total.
Doesn't sound like an issue to me or you have too many coins. You sell these coins and finally look at them? Your all of a sudden an RPM/OMM expert but didn't ever notice it. Hypothetical for sure >>
Not hypothetical at all. I buy and break up several unc sets of Jeffersons each year, hanging onto the couple or half dozen coins that will improve my set in each case, and selling the rest. When you buy an unc set of Jeffersons, what do you check for? Here's the basic list: full steps on everything, then the 39 DDR, 42D/D, war nickel RPM's, 43/2P, 43 doubled eye, 45P DDR, 46D/D, 49D/S, 54S/D, and 55D/S. At least, that is my mental list. This coin isn't one of those. I just happened to spot it when looking over the coins as I packed them up. I'm no expert. I had to do some research. But it is what it is.
<< <i>The only problem that I see is how it's sold. As a "LOT". Cherrypicking should be done prior to selling the "LOT". This is a small problem and one that is on the seller's conscience. I don't think the buyer would know the difference. >>
It was not sold as a lot. The buyer asked what else I might have that was on his/her list. I sent an itemized, priced list back, with a price for the whole list should they want all of them. They did.
<< <i> various requests to know what it is ... >>
I'm not going to say. It's a scarce coin. I can find records of them having sold, and prices realized, but there haven't been too many. I've poisoned the well for the new owner enough without identifying the coin, LOL. I am not losing money on this coin. In fact, my records tell me I'm making $1.78. But if I did the other thing, I could take my family out to dinner with the proceeds. But let me reiterate, for the fourth time, the buyer gets the coin.
The best suggestion I've read was emailed to me by a lurker. His thought was basically offer to split a profit with the would-be buyer.
Given that this is, in fact, a sight-unseen purchase off a list, and any coin of the stated Date/MM in the agreed grade with the agreed shade of tone will do, that is approximately what I would do in a case where the monetary difference were really large
I think the issue of pictures or not is an important one here.
Hoard the keys.
Hypothetical back at you: if you had two examples of the same date/ grade as offered, and one was the rare OMM, which would you send to fill the order?
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>I got a bag from of 1995-P cents from a dealer if he cherry them. I would not have gave him the price he asking for them it was not opened, Like one posted you should have cherryed them befor you sold them not after. It's like going to a BM cherrying him then him asking for the coin back so he can give you a different one. But I know you will do the right thing.
He only sold a specific coin if he gave a picture or slab id. Otherwise he's sold a generic coin. That can be what every he likes, providing it fits the description. Seems obvious to me. The buyer has not cherry-picked it, because the buyer hasn't seen it.
said "I've done this before." Mean time she passes a bust half in VF to her counterpart. He says how much and I say the price. He peals off the bills and pays me. Then as she is look at the next coin, she tells me she way ove paid on the last coin. (I think she and her partner did not communicate right... the price was my asking price, not her offer price.) I avoided the temptation to say I thought you had done this before
<< <i>Hypothetical back at you: if you had two examples of the same date/ grade as offered, and one was the rare OMM, which would you send to fill the order? >>
Good one! That's easy. I'd keep the OMM. No question.
<< <i>
<< <i>I got a bag from of 1995-P cents from a dealer if he cherry them. I would not have gave him the price he asking for them it was not opened, Like one posted you should have cherryed them befor you sold them not after. It's like going to a BM cherrying him then him asking for the coin back so he can give you a different one. But I know you will do the right thing.
He only sold a specific coin if he gave a picture or slab id. Otherwise he's sold a generic coin. That can be what every he likes, providing it fits the description. Seems obvious to me. The buyer has not cherry-picked it, because the buyer hasn't seen it. >>
That is way I dont buy coins with out a pic off E-Bay becuse of seller like this. It can be any coin as long as it is that year, That is not right . I just rec some rolls and thought it was the same old junk but it was not now that is what kind of seller I'am looking for not one that looks at the coins after I pay him for them and pulls out the nice stuff and give you what he thinks is good for you but not for him. I'am sorry that is not right. But that is just me. I guss you need to ask for pic on the BST too.
Hoard the keys.
For what it is worth, though, and just to keep the conversation going -- this was a case of a PM list that came up as an outgrowth from a BST transaction. The prices of the coins in question are low; nobody is going to ask for coin-by-coin images in such a case, when the time to do a proper picture is worth more than the price of each single coin. So, if the buyer had wanted pics, I'd be likely to have done a series of 'group shots.' They would not have shown this OMM in any identifiable fashion. Still, the toning pattern on the coin might in that case have identified this specific coin as the one offered and the one purchased, and whether it did or not I'd still be ethically bound, and probably legally bound as well, to deliver this specific coin.
At the end of the day, in this case, as it actually happened, I do not feel ethically bound to deliver this specific coin, and I am absolutely not legally bound to do so, but I will do so anyway.
If it were about a truly big score, though, in this exact circumstance (i.e. no pictures) I think I would write to the buyer, explain what was going on, provide a choice of a substitute or a partial or full refund/cancellation of the transaction, and finally send a courtesy cut of whatever profit I realized on the cherrypick after it was all over. That's better than fair.
I've only read the first two responses............and I say BS
I don't know of a Dealer in the country that wouldn't pull the coin or ask for just compensation. Many times when a Dealer knows you're going to resubmit, they still try to get their dirty paws on more money if it comes back higher. Any of you Dealers here can say as you want, it still happens.
again, I say BS, keep the coin or ask for more money. The terms agreed to was based upon your knowledge at the time, which was obviously not correct.
Bingo.
Steve
<< <i>Definitely a good idea to ask for a pic of any coin.
For what it is worth, though, and just to keep the conversation going -- this was a case of a PM list that came up as an outgrowth from a BST transaction. The prices of the coins in question are low; nobody is going to ask for coin-by-coin images in such a case, when the time to do a proper picture is worth more than the price of each single coin. So, if the buyer had wanted pics, I'd be likely to have done a series of 'group shots.' They would not have shown this OMM in any identifiable fashion. Still, the toning pattern on the coin might in that case have identified this specific coin as the one offered and the one purchased, and whether it did or not I'd still be ethically bound, and probably legally bound as well, to deliver this specific coin.
At the end of the day, in this case, as it actually happened, I do not feel ethically bound to deliver this specific coin, and I am absolutely not legally bound to do so, but I will do so anyway.
If it were about a truly big score, though, in this exact circumstance (i.e. no pictures) I think I would write to the buyer, explain what was going on, provide a choice of a substitute or a partial or full refund/cancellation of the transaction, and finally send a courtesy cut of whatever profit I realized on the cherrypick after it was all over. That's better than fair. >>
That is what I like to hear, With that said you are one of the good Dealers out there.
Hoard the keys.