This logic is even convoluted for Ebay/Paypal

Barry · December 28, 2008 12:22AM

I made a BIN purchase on Ebay (non-coin.) Seller is located in MD.
I went to Paypal to pay and see a Chinese name and verified non-US seller after payment is made.
I called Ebay and they verify the account was hijacked (very well done, BTW, with a slew of other high FB accounts who left recent positive feedback.)

Ebay assured me I will get a refund. Just go to Paypal and file a dispute.
I did that and after 3 days, Paypal gave me a date of Jan 10 to complete their investigation.
I call Paypal and got transferred to someone in their dispute resolution center and here's where it gets good:

Me: What is there to investigate? Ebay confirmed the acct was hijacked, so I want my money back.
PP: Sometimes a seller who is kicked off Ebay will continue to sell using a hijacked account and sell legitimate merchandise. We need to give it time to make sure you don't get the item.
Me: I bought an item from a guy in MD. I spoke to him on the phone and he told me he hasn't listed anything for sale in 2 months. When I searched for the item, I restricted my search to US sellers only. I don't want anything from China, even if something does get delivered.
PP: I'm sorry, sir, but if the item is what was described in the auction, you won't get a refund.
Me: Even though Ebay canceled the auction and the seller is unauthorized?
PP: Yes.

So, if something does arrive, I have a few options:
1. Refuse delivery if a signature is required (seller provided PP with an Express Mail tracking number - as of 12/26 it's in Beijing.)
2. Accept delivery, and if it's OK, end of story.
3. Accept delivery, if it's OK, tell Paypal there was a rock in the box (scam the scammer.)

The thing that gets me is Ebay/PP admits the account was compromised, yet they want to see if the item arrives, anyway.
Comments?

RYK · December 28, 2008 12:26AM

Comments?

Yes, I think that the ebay/PayPal complex is FUBAR. More and more, the legitimate buyers and sellers are taken to end of their rope in favor of the scammer.

STONE · December 28, 2008 12:27AM

That really just doesn't make sense.

fcloud · December 28, 2008 12:45AM

that simply is wrong

WinPitcher · December 28, 2008 1:01AM

What about 4. Accept delivery and it is not ok? Then what?

I would not accept anything from someone that hijacked an account.

Good luck sorting this mess out.

Steve

TwoSides2aCoin · December 28, 2008 1:14AM

<< <i>Comments?

Yes, I think that the ebay/PayPal complex is FUBAR. More and more, the legitimate buyers and sellers are taken to end of their rope in favor of the scammer. >>

I've pretty much stopped using it for selling. Would it be better to cancel an account if not using it ? Will this prevent a dormant account from getting hijacked ?

Curious

commoncents123 · December 28, 2008 1:20AM

More and more I've noticed similar situations with large companies. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, we are unable to do this or that, that's not my department, blah blah blah.

notwilight · December 28, 2008 2:12AM

Paypal and eBay do not act like one company. There appears to be very little cooperation. Other than that, they are a huge fat company with very low efficiency. they do not make good decisions in general. They also move very slowly on everything (funny they're pushing sellers into same-day shipping for star rating). Because they are so slow there is a good chance this is just buying time before your refund. --Jerry

rld14 · December 28, 2008 2:14AM

Easy,

They give you your money back, or you take them to small claims court. I had to do it about 3 years ago, I won. Send them a demand letter, they'll have one of their paralegals call you and try to bully you into dropping the suit claiming the user agreement.

Plaintiff's exhibit 1: http://www.screw-paypal.com/TOS 2003.pdf.pdf

File anyway if they don't pay, cite the user agreement in court but generally you should expect to largely win by default.

Barry · December 28, 2008 2:35AM

rld14 - Easier than small claims court is disputing the charge with my credit card company. If they cancel my PP acct, I don't care. I once did the Small Claims Court route with a computer company in South Dakota, after exhausting other avenues. It worked. If necessary, I'll do it again.

Boom · December 28, 2008 2:42AM

This is downright ludicrous.

GeorgieB · December 28, 2008 2:46AM

Wow. That sucks..

Boom · December 28, 2008 2:57AM

BTW - the credit card thing is a "lock"!

The heck with PayPuke.

Russ · December 28, 2008 2:57AM

Here's the real deal: In the end, PayPal will refund the money. But, in the interim they will stretch it out as long as possible hoping to recover the funds on the other end so they don't have to pull the cash out of their own till. Only after they've determined with certainty that they won't be able to do that will they re-imburse you. They do exactly the same thing when a fraudulent chargeback is filed against a seller. All the reasoning and excuses the drones give you are nothing but pure crap.

Russ, NCNE

BAJJERFAN · December 28, 2008 3:03AM

You shudda told the PP rep that if the payment is refunded to you that the item will never get sent and it would be the end of the story. DUH on PP.

rec78 · December 28, 2008 3:03AM

Sound like someone hijacked all of Paypal.
If you paid with a credit card - file a dispute. I always pay with a credit card even though they make it harder to do by not letting your primary funding source be a credit card. Youi have to change it every time, but i will not give in to their stupid system. They make you wait because they make money on the float-If they make millions of people wait two weeks they are making a lot of money on the interest float. Bob

Barry · December 28, 2008 4:49AM

I always pay with a credit card even though they make it harder to do by not letting your primary funding source be a credit card.
That's the only funding I have in this account. This is a very old personal Paypal account (do they have such a thing any more?) I never registered a bank account with them and only use it with a CC for buying.

lcoopie · December 28, 2008 5:03AM

It's hard to imagine that they will remain
a viable business long term
with this kind of customer service

derryb · December 28, 2008 5:12AM

If you sign for it and there is a rock in it, it's gonna be harder to get your money back. Seller has your signature that package was received. Refuse the package and start the dispute.
As stated above, always use a credit card for ebay purchases.

crito · December 28, 2008 5:36AM

Hey, if you don't like paypal's rules you don't have to use them. And if you don't like ebay's rules you don't have to use them either. And if you don't like anti-competitive trusts then just move to China or something..

Barry · February 9, 2009 10:20PM

Just a follow-up note...

Paypal ignored its own deadline of responding by Jan 29. I've since filed a dispute with the credit card company. If Paypal decides to dump me, so be it. Their whole system borders on criminal.

DUIGUY · February 9, 2009 10:29PM

<< <i>Just a follow-up note...

Paypal ignored its own deadline of responding by Jan 29. I've since filed a dispute with the credit card company. If Paypal decides to dump me, so be it. Their whole system borders on criminal. >>

I keep a PP account just for purchasing. PP has informed me I need to verify the account just to pay through my Credit Card.

Boom · February 9, 2009 10:40PM

Longacre · February 9, 2009 11:03PM

Barry-- I will be in Beijing at the end of the month. I will pick up the package for you and you can save on the shipping.

crypto79 · February 9, 2009 11:32PM

I hate it when bad stuff happens to good people:<(

leothelyon · February 9, 2009 11:56PM

So what if it's a rock, would it go back to ebay's "item not described" dispute? And what will they say then," we already told you the account was hijacked, why did you accept the package"?
And paypal? Why would they expect you or allow you to accept a package that was paid through a hijacked account?
Just unbelieveable!

Leo

rld14 · February 10, 2009 12:14AM

I gotta say, I am quite impressed by the OP's ability to include "logic" and "PayPal" and "eBay" in one sentence.

Bravo!

Barry · February 11, 2009 6:57AM

Final update - Paypal has ruled in my favor and will be refunding my money within the next few days. Maybe they read this forum?

As Russ correctly pointed out early in the thread, "In the end, PayPal will refund the money. But, in the interim they will stretch it out as long as possible hoping to recover the funds on the other end so they don't have to pull the cash out of their own till. "

BlindedByEgo · February 11, 2009 7:46AM

PayPal sucks, pure and simple.

This logic is even convoluted for Ebay/Paypal

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