<< <i>i can't make up my mind what i'm more reminded of, the Pied Piper or the story about the Lemmings marching to the sea!! >>
With all due respect, I made $10,000,000 net on coins the past decade listening to Laura. She may not be perfect, and what she says may not apply to you or some others on this forum, but to so haughtily dismiss what she says out of hand smacks of simple closemindedness.
Good read - thanks for posting it. There's no doubt that diminished liquidity is impacting everyone.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
Bruce, you probably made more for her than she made for you!!! also, you'd have probably done just as weel following your own instncts and wouldn't have done bad listening to.........................me!!!! knowing what to buy/sell, when to buy/sell, where to buy/sell etc. for a collector of your knowledge and means isn't Brain Surgery.
<< <i>Bruce, you probably made more for her than she made for you!!! also, you'd have probably done just as weel following your own instncts and wouldn't have done bad listening to.........................me!!!! knowing what to buy/sell, when to buy/sell, where to buy/sell etc. for a collector of your knowledge and means isn't Brain Surgery. >>
I have collected coins for 40 years. I've bought $10 coins and I've bought $5M coins. And I can flat out tell you with a straight face that it's downright scary what the coin doctors can do to coins. And the services let too many of them into their holders with silent net grades. And I have no way of catching most of them myself.
You can say what you want, but what Laura says is true. I would be very reluctant to spend any significant money on a coin these days without having it inspected by someone with a lot more knowledge than I have on doctoring.
<< <i>The best test to determine if a coin has good eye appeal (if you can't tell)-show it to someone who knows nothing about coins. If they immediately say its pretty, bang! You have eye appeal! >>
wow, alot of whizzed coins sure got some eye appeal!
K S >>
But you don't NEED a novice's opinion of a whizzed coin DUH. The statement was proffered with the assumption that everything about the coin [except the obvious whizziing/buffing] has already been approved by a knowledgeable collector. Whats appealing to you may not be appealing to others, so if you want another opinion of EA then ask the novice.
I would ask my wife all the time if she thought a toned coin was pretty - especially if I was on the line about keeping it or not. A novice opininon is often helpful.
Legend is just a retail outlet, they are in business to sell coins in good, bad or in between times. They will say whatever the buyer wants to hear to close a sale. You can word a sentence anyway you like. That is not wild conjure. Laura said she was going to carry fewer coins next year, that is not wild conjure. Laura or Legend had a lot of coins on their site with discounted prices a few weeks back, that is not wild conjure. Laura has stated in the past she has a pulse on the market, she must have taken a few days off.
As far as making 10 million in coins because of Laura, i guess that qualifies as a "you suck" award around here or something. If you truly made 10 million in PRoFIT on coins the last few years i am impressed !! You did better than 80 percent of the dealers out there. I managed to make some money on coins the last 7 years and never knew who Laura was before last year. I even told the IRS i made some money.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Legend has a discount sale EVERY December. Legend takes the last half of the month off EVERY December. The conclusions you've made based upon your perceptions are incorrect because you are taking what you see out of context.
BTW - ask just about anyone that does biz with Laura ... she will NOT just say what it takes to close a sale. She's honest to a fault.
In my opinion, Laura is leaving out an important element - silver and gold prices. If we see a bullish trend in PM's, it would bring new and return money into the coin market, causing prices to increase. The mint is also cutting back on their PM offerings, so that should help the generic gold.
Bingo.
The coin market will not cave for good when/if gold prices are making new all-time highs as I feel quite confidently they will in 2009-2013 or longer. We are not in early 1980 nor in late 1990 today where markets ended badly. 1980 marked the end of a long commodity boom run. There wasn't even a commodity run in the 1983-1990 coin bull market. That one was built on TPG's and investor money (not gold). Where we are is something like 1975-1976 when the coin market took a hard breather (and took a hit) during a recession. I can recall Barber quarters in gem falling from 20-30% at that time. Gold fell 50%! But what followed from 1977-1979 was the biggest coin boom to date, all on the heels of gold and silver (ie trashing the fiat dollar). We're halfway through this commodities supercycle. While certain parts of the coin market won't do well from here, solid coins in high demand areas may temporarily weaken as they did in the mid-70's (and also in later 1988), but they will come back strong as long as gold leads. Until the gold bull market is buried for good, I wouldn't write off coins yet.
In case anyone forgot, the 1975-1976 period was one of the best times for buying great coins at relatively cheap prices. Many great coins advanced by 10-20X from there...as gold increased 8X. While I'm not surprised that REG set fever coins might be taking a long deserved breather, I am would not be surprised that areas like gem 18th and 19th century type, early copper and bust material, choice and gem gold, and other favorite areas of "new money" continue to fair the storm pretty well. These areas were not well hyped during the 2002-2006 time frame, were almost never part of REG sets, and only started seeing strong gains in later 2007 as the last wave of REG set fever started to wane.
With all due respect, I made $10,000,000 net on coins the past decade listening to Laura.
For the last 10 years, buying/selling coins has been like day trading during the internet bubble.
I'll be really impressed if you can do the same in the next 10 years.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
<< <i>Legend has a discount sale EVERY December. Legend takes the last half of the month off EVERY December. The conclusions you've made based upon your perceptions are incorrect because you are taking what you see out of context.
BTW - ask just about anyone that does biz with Laura ... she will NOT just say what it takes to close a sale. She's honest to a fault. >>
Many dealers hold December "clearance" sales, and many take off the latter half of December. It's known to be a soft spot in the numismatic market calendar.
Laura does call it as she sees it and has talked me out of more Legend coins than she has sold to me.
So says RYK, the cabana boy ...
Now, I gotta run. Laura needs some more sun screen and a pina colada....
<< <i>Legend is just a retail outlet, they are in business to sell coins in good, bad or in between times. They will say whatever the buyer wants to hear to close a sale. >>
You obviously don't know Laura. She's a lot of things, but one to "say whatever the buyer wants to hear to close a sale" is not among those.
Listen, I'm not Laura's biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination, but there's no reason to lie and disparage someone you don't know and (presumably) have never worked with in the past.
Respectfully...Mike
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
Also agreed that Laura has talked me out of more coins than I bought from her. She had an uncanny "feel" for what kind of coins I really liked. Dave Wnuck and John Agre too and a small group of other dealers as well including Rick Snow, Larry SeaEagle, Jon Lerner Coins Etc, Dart Coins, etc.
Which reminds me, I am going to ask Don Willis to ask her to come back. She is sorely missed here by me. Mark Feld too.
By the way, I have seen the entire CAC operation in action and I am most impressed. Laura is stating it like it is and it is no hype in my opinion.
<< <i>Looks accurate to me, I am sure the "I do not see the sky falling" folks will chime in.
WS >>
What about the folks that are in for the L-O-N-G term. I don't care about downturns or crashes. I have what I like and will keep it through multiple cycles. >>
"Discipline is never an end in itself, only a means to an end."
Everything she writes about in one paragraph is contradicted in the next !
1. She missed the call in 2008 BIG and yet she is a dead-on prognosticator for 2009? 2. Busier than ever, yet working in reduced operations..? 3. Legend is still buying, but we will reduce our inventory levels up to 25%...? 4. While fear is probably the biggest negative in the coin market right now, there still is good activity...?
Oh Yeah, lets follow her over the cliff in 2009....NOT
Man, there is such a "DEAD" feel about. You feel it on ebay.
You sense it at coin shows like the Houston Money Show and right here on the BS&T Forum.
Everybody is bailing out faster than sheite!
I don't know about Everywhere/ Anytown USA but as I ride around the City at night, everything is soooo dead!
Where there have always been lots of Christmas lights, now there are few.
It doesn't even feel like Christmas. Ebay has gone right down the tubes and as someone commented about the pix I posted in Houston - there was little to no activity. No buyers, with dealers packing it in way early Saturday.
Everything she writes about in one paragraph is contradicted in the next !
1. She missed the call in 2008 BIG and yet she is a dead-on prognosticator for 2009? 2. Busier than ever, yet working in reduced operations..? 3. Legend is still buying, but we will reduce our inventory levels up to 25%...? 4. While fear is probably the biggest negative in the coin market right now, there still is good activity...?
Oh Yeah, lets follow her over the cliff in 2009....NOT >>
With all due respect to who is the clown, everything written there is dead on accurate. Since you don't really have a clue how the industry works, you think it's contradictory - but it's not.
Everything she writes about in one paragraph is contradicted in the next !
1. She missed the call in 2008 BIG and yet she is a dead-on prognosticator for 2009? 2. Busier than ever, yet working in reduced operations..? 3. Legend is still buying, but we will reduce our inventory levels up to 25%...? 4. While fear is probably the biggest negative in the coin market right now, there still is good activity...?
Oh Yeah, lets follow her over the cliff in 2009....NOT >>
With all due respect to who is the clown, everything written there is dead on accurate. Since you don't really have a clue how the industry works, you think it's contradictory - but it's not. >>
I promised myself, last night, that I would stay out of this thread (and "the other one") yet I find I need to pipe in here AND AGREE WITH TDN ON THIS...not that he needs any help...
As for Point 1 --- Being on a bull run that begins to falter towards the end of the year, due to "outside" influences (ie the credit crisis), I'm sure that many were taken by surprise... yet to see the new direction emerge, recognize that and name it... well, that's a good thing... which leads to...
Points 2 & 3 --- I have also noticed a change in the general buying patterns of collectors over the past months... luckily, I have developed a small circle of clients who have specific interests... I have paid attention to their needs/wants and find that by being very selective in what I purchase, I can be much busier/productive with less. I do not just buy whatever is offered... if it is generic I am not interested... if it has problems I don't want it, either do collectors so that is a simple decision. OTOH... if I am offered anything exciting, I am a strong buyer.
Point 4 --- Fear is a good thing...any Veteran will tell you that... it heightens your senses, makes you pay closer attention to what is going on around you, it gets you to work on "gut instinct"... so if you have trained well and have a good "set of tools'... you'll make better decisions during a crisis...
...and if "following her over a cliff" can lead to a more refined, defined and productive business model/collection... then I say "jump"...
I do not follow the CAC model... but then, I collect and deal in more modest coins... I am not a deep pocket guy... biggest $ coin I ever owned is a 93-S Morgan in PCGS 25 (and it was the biggest PITA I ever owned as well)... yet I have to respect and admire the business model that Legend and Laura represent...it may not be for everyone BUT it is not trying to be.
If her perspective and direction were so out of touch with reality, I highly doubt she would be vacationing right now... she'd probably be on the "unemployment line"...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
I strongly agree that Don Willis would be held in high esteem if he were to email Feld & Sperber and invite them to participate and to try to hold their tongues when it comes to PCGS business so that those two can stick around.
Knowledgeable posters are sorely needed on this forum and very much appreciated.
<< <i>With all due respect, I made $10,000,000 net on coins the past decade listening to Laura. >>
That doean't mean much without knowing the size of your investment.
Rare coins have been a great investment over the last 10 years. Anyone who bought coins and held them have been rewarded hansomely. You didn't have to be a genius to make money in rare coins or a number of other collectable areas over the last decade. I certainly did, make money, and I'm no genius.
I'm generalizing and this statement isn't about Laura but a bull market is not the best time to determine ones investment or advisory skills.
I don't know if the market has "crashed" or not but there is some serious softening that's for sure. Unsold lots are increasing and reserves are high. Most of the bargains won't happen until consignments go through the auction once, with a reserve, and don't sell. When they appear the second time with a smaller or no reserve that's when there will be some real bargains. If the owners are eager to sell that is.
Cash flow has certainly been hit. Sold 2 coins at the summer ANA and so far I've been able to collect 25% of the sales price.
It's like real estate - he has to sell his coins to buy mine.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
<< <i>Cash flow has certainly been hit. Sold 2 coins at the summer ANA and so far I've been able to collect 25% of the sales price. >>
Did you sell to a dealer or collector?
Under current conditions collectors should be cautious when consigning coins to a dealer. You better make sure you will get paid or at least be able to get your coins back if they don't sell.
<< <i>Cash flow has certainly been hit. Sold 2 coins at the summer ANA and so far I've been able to collect 25% of the sales price. >>
Did you sell to a dealer or collector?
Under current conditions collectors should be cautious when consigning coins to a dealer. You better make sure you will get paid or at least be able to get your coins back if they don't sell. >>
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
I just returned from a show this morning and to put it mildly the dealers were hurting. No cash to buy anything at any half reasonable price. I sat at tables hearing the same refrain, bought too much the past few months and now very few buyers. At least on a local level the market has crashed. Other than ultra rarities I would be surprised to see the over all market maintain past price levels. Of course there will be exceptions. Could be a bargain hunters year.
What happened the last 2 times coin prices spiked? The Market crashed. What happened the last couple of times gold spiked? It crashed. What happened when oil spiked? It crashed. What happened when Real Estate spiked? It crashed.
Image not to scale, but you get the idea.
Bear's "Growl of Approval" award 10/09 & 3/10 | "YOU SUCK" - PonyExpress8|"F the doctors!" - homerunhall | I hate my car
Interesting read boys, It makes me wonder, if coin doctors are getting so good as to go undetectable by the best graders in the industry, then it does not matter. These coins, over time will become the new look, the new standard and the new demand and "original" coins will not be wanted anymore.
occasional lenders like lakesammman probably has a better feel of the liquidity of the market
Thanks but it's really just my very small experience. The dealers have a better feel.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
In the four short years that I have been collecting, I have never known Laura to incorrectly assess market conditions or make a prediction that was not spot on. Im just saying ... she has a track record for being right.
<< <i>Interesting read boys, It makes me wonder, if coin doctors are getting so good as to go undetectable by the best graders in the industry, then it does not matter. These coins, over time will become the new look, the new standard and the new demand and "original" coins will not be wanted anymore. >>
A Scott Travers book had a section on "Confessions of a Coin Doctor" which said (ten years ago) that the hot-shot twenty and thirty-somethings that the grading services hire like the "look' of cleaned and recolored copper coins, since that is most often what gets slabbed RED with high grades, and were likely to reject original coins as "AT" or "corroded"
Any crash in the coin market will likely be due to overhyped junk and overpromised "gauarantees" which far exceed the net worth of the grading companies. Anyone for a taxpayer bailout?
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
I don't have the experience many others on here do, but I still see strong coins on ebay go for strong(er) money. I also see a lot of "not all there" coins not. Many of these are still going for more than I will pay. If there's a 64 in a 65 slab it's worth 64 money and a lot of sellers haven't gotten that message. In our area real estate has fallen but people aren't selling at the new lower real prices, they're dropping prices 3-5% and holding on. I just had my house appraised and it dropped 20% since 2006...I'm not selling so it doesn't matter. I'm putting some cash away to buy if there's a real crash, but 10-15% off isn't a crash in my book.
If somebody is dumping all there Hudson or Spanish Trail commems, early date half cents or bust halves, drop me a line.
It's different this time RLD14, the fundamentals are all lined up for a continued bull run in coins as far as the eye can see into the future.
Coins are not to be compared to junk realestate or cookbooked stocks or even the manipulated commodity makets. We are talking priceless pieces
of history that can never be replaced or recreated. How could you even think to compare the Rare Coin market to some of those other blase and worthless
items?
The planets are all lining up behind Coins, you can see signs in the stars as to their supernatural supremacy as the ultimate investment opportunity of this century.
Get in before its to late. This is just a little breather before the really big run starts on January 1st..... I read it in the stars and the planets stand behind it, its got to be so.
NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
Comments
<< <i>i can't make up my mind what i'm more reminded of, the Pied Piper or the story about the Lemmings marching to the sea!!
With all due respect, I made $10,000,000 net on coins the past decade listening to Laura. She may not be perfect, and what she says may not apply to you or some others on this forum, but to so haughtily dismiss what she says out of hand smacks of simple closemindedness.
Was it worth it?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i> With all due respect, I made $10,000,000 net on coins the past decade listening to Laura.
Was it worth it? >>
lol.
Heck yes. I'd even read this forum every day for that kind of money!
<< <i>Bruce, you probably made more for her than she made for you!!! also, you'd have probably done just as weel following your own instncts and wouldn't have done bad listening to.........................me!!!!
I have collected coins for 40 years. I've bought $10 coins and I've bought $5M coins. And I can flat out tell you with a straight face that it's downright scary what the coin doctors can do to coins. And the services let too many of them into their holders with silent net grades. And I have no way of catching most of them myself.
You can say what you want, but what Laura says is true. I would be very reluctant to spend any significant money on a coin these days without having it inspected by someone with a lot more knowledge than I have on doctoring.
<< <i>
<< <i>The best test to determine if a coin has good eye appeal (if you can't tell)-show it to someone who knows nothing about coins. If they immediately say its pretty, bang! You have eye appeal! >>
wow, alot of whizzed coins sure got some eye appeal!
K S >>
But you don't NEED a novice's opinion of a whizzed coin DUH. The statement was proffered with the assumption that everything about the coin [except the obvious whizziing/buffing] has already been approved by a knowledgeable collector. Whats appealing to you may not be appealing to others, so if you want another opinion of EA then ask the novice.
As far as making 10 million in coins because of Laura, i guess that qualifies as a "you suck" award around here or something. If you truly made 10 million in PRoFIT on coins the last few years i am impressed !! You did better than 80 percent of the dealers out there. I managed to make some money on coins the last 7 years and never knew who Laura was before last year. I even told the IRS i made some money.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
BTW - ask just about anyone that does biz with Laura ... she will NOT just say what it takes to close a sale. She's honest to a fault.
<< <i> With all due respect, I made $10,000,000 net on coins the past decade listening to Laura.
Was it worth it? >>
For $10 million net in 10 years, I would probably even listen to YOU
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Legend takes the last half of the month off EVERY December. >>
Hey, me too! (Sort of).
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Legend is just blowing smoke,they are in trouble themselves.
I know for a fact that Laura is vacationing in Hawaii right now with not a care in the world...
So says RYK, the cabana boy
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Bingo.
The coin market will not cave for good when/if gold prices are making new all-time highs as I feel quite confidently they will in 2009-2013 or longer. We are not in early 1980 nor in late 1990 today where markets ended badly. 1980 marked the end of a long commodity boom run. There wasn't even a commodity run in the 1983-1990 coin bull market. That one was built on TPG's and investor money (not gold). Where we are is something like 1975-1976 when the coin market took a hard breather (and took a hit) during a recession. I can recall Barber quarters in gem falling from 20-30% at that time. Gold fell 50%! But what followed from 1977-1979 was the biggest coin boom to date, all on the heels of gold and silver (ie trashing the fiat dollar). We're halfway through this commodities supercycle. While certain parts of the coin market won't do well from here, solid coins in high demand areas may temporarily weaken as they did in the mid-70's (and also in later 1988), but they will come back strong as long as gold leads. Until the gold bull market is buried for good, I wouldn't write off coins yet.
In case anyone forgot, the 1975-1976 period was one of the best times for buying great coins at relatively cheap prices. Many great coins advanced by 10-20X from there...as gold increased 8X. While I'm not surprised that REG set fever coins might be taking a long deserved breather, I am would not be surprised that areas like gem 18th and 19th century type, early copper and bust material, choice and gem gold, and other favorite areas of "new money" continue to fair the storm pretty well. These areas were not well hyped during the 2002-2006 time frame, were almost never part of REG sets, and only started seeing strong gains in later 2007 as the last wave of REG set fever started to wane.
roadrunner
Was it worth it?
That's the best one-liner that I've read here in a long time.
For the last 10 years, buying/selling coins has been like day trading during the internet bubble.
I'll be really impressed if you can do the same in the next 10 years.
<< <i>Legend has a discount sale EVERY December. Legend takes the last half of the month off EVERY December. The conclusions you've made based upon your perceptions are incorrect because you are taking what you see out of context.
BTW - ask just about anyone that does biz with Laura ... she will NOT just say what it takes to close a sale. She's honest to a fault. >>
Many dealers hold December "clearance" sales, and many take off the latter half of December. It's known to be a soft spot in the numismatic market calendar.
Laura does call it as she sees it and has talked me out of more Legend coins than she has sold to me.
So says RYK, the cabana boy ...
Now, I gotta run. Laura needs some more sun screen and a pina colada....
<< <i>Legend is just a retail outlet, they are in business to sell coins in good, bad or in between times. They will say whatever the buyer wants to hear to close a sale. >>
You obviously don't know Laura. She's a lot of things, but one to "say whatever the buyer wants to hear to close a sale" is not among those.
Listen, I'm not Laura's biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination, but there's no reason to lie and disparage someone you don't know and (presumably) have never worked with in the past.
Respectfully...Mike
Also agreed that Laura has talked me out of more coins than I bought from her. She had an uncanny "feel" for what kind of coins I really liked. Dave Wnuck and John Agre too and a small group of other dealers as well including Rick Snow, Larry SeaEagle, Jon Lerner Coins Etc, Dart Coins, etc.
Which reminds me, I am going to ask Don Willis to ask her to come back. She is sorely missed here by me.
Mark Feld too.
By the way, I have seen the entire CAC operation in action and I am most impressed. Laura is stating it like it is and it is no hype in my opinion.
<< <i>
<< <i>Looks accurate to me, I am sure the "I do not see the sky falling" folks will chime in.
WS >>
What about the folks that are in for the L-O-N-G term. I don't care about downturns or crashes. I have what I like and will keep it through multiple cycles. >>
No Need for CAC hype here, Just Dump em, Dump em all....... its almost too late !! CL
Everything she writes about in one paragraph is contradicted in the next !
1. She missed the call in 2008 BIG and yet she is a dead-on prognosticator for 2009?
2. Busier than ever, yet working in reduced operations..?
3. Legend is still buying, but we will reduce our inventory levels up to 25%...?
4. While fear is probably the biggest negative in the coin market right now, there still is good activity...?
Oh Yeah, lets follow her over the cliff in 2009....NOT
If its a bubble I want it to POP soon so i can affford some nice coins finally
You sense it at coin shows like the Houston Money Show and right here on the BS&T Forum.
Everybody is bailing out faster than sheite!
I don't know about Everywhere/ Anytown USA but as I ride around the City
at night, everything is soooo dead!
Where there have always been lots of Christmas lights, now there are few.
It doesn't even feel like Christmas. Ebay has gone right down the tubes
and as someone commented about the pix I posted in Houston - there
was little to no activity. No buyers, with dealers packing it in way early Saturday.
<< <i>She is a Clown.
Everything she writes about in one paragraph is contradicted in the next !
1. She missed the call in 2008 BIG and yet she is a dead-on prognosticator for 2009?
2. Busier than ever, yet working in reduced operations..?
3. Legend is still buying, but we will reduce our inventory levels up to 25%...?
4. While fear is probably the biggest negative in the coin market right now, there still is good activity...?
Oh Yeah, lets follow her over the cliff in 2009....NOT >>
With all due respect to who is the clown, everything written there is dead on accurate. Since you don't really have a clue how the industry works, you think it's contradictory - but it's not.
<< <i>
<< <i>She is a Clown.
Everything she writes about in one paragraph is contradicted in the next !
1. She missed the call in 2008 BIG and yet she is a dead-on prognosticator for 2009?
2. Busier than ever, yet working in reduced operations..?
3. Legend is still buying, but we will reduce our inventory levels up to 25%...?
4. While fear is probably the biggest negative in the coin market right now, there still is good activity...?
Oh Yeah, lets follow her over the cliff in 2009....NOT >>
With all due respect to who is the clown, everything written there is dead on accurate. Since you don't really have a clue how the industry works, you think it's contradictory - but it's not. >>
I promised myself, last night, that I would stay out of this thread (and "the other one") yet I find I need to pipe in here AND AGREE WITH TDN ON THIS...not that he needs any help...
As for Point 1 --- Being on a bull run that begins to falter towards the end of the year, due to "outside" influences (ie the credit crisis), I'm sure that many were taken by surprise... yet to see the new direction emerge, recognize that and name it... well, that's a good thing... which leads to...
Points 2 & 3 --- I have also noticed a change in the general buying patterns of collectors over the past months... luckily, I have developed a small circle of clients who have specific interests... I have paid attention to their needs/wants and find that by being very selective in what I purchase, I can be much busier/productive with less. I do not just buy whatever is offered... if it is generic I am not interested... if it has problems I don't want it, either do collectors so that is a simple decision. OTOH... if I am offered anything exciting, I am a strong buyer.
Point 4 --- Fear is a good thing...any Veteran will tell you that... it heightens your senses, makes you pay closer attention to what is going on around you, it gets you to work on "gut instinct"... so if you have trained well and have a good "set of tools'... you'll make better decisions during a crisis...
...and if "following her over a cliff" can lead to a more refined, defined and productive business model/collection... then I say "jump"...
I do not follow the CAC model... but then, I collect and deal in more modest coins... I am not a deep pocket guy... biggest $ coin I ever owned is a 93-S Morgan in PCGS 25 (and it was the biggest PITA I ever owned as well)... yet I have to respect and admire the business model that Legend and Laura represent...it may not be for everyone BUT it is not trying to be.
If her perspective and direction were so out of touch with reality, I highly doubt she would be vacationing right now... she'd probably be on the "unemployment line"...
If your market crashed, it's a sure sign you took the wrong turn at the bifurcate fork in the road.
*bifurcate fork - I know, probably redundant, but I had to lay off my proof/edit person because my market was down the wrong fork, too!
Knowledgeable posters are sorely needed on this forum and very much appreciated.
Merry Christmas Everyone ----and Russ-get to work
<< <i>With all due respect, I made $10,000,000 net on coins the past decade listening to Laura. >>
That doean't mean much without knowing the size of your investment.
Rare coins have been a great investment over the last 10 years. Anyone who bought coins and held them have been rewarded hansomely. You didn't have to be a genius to make money in rare coins or a number of other collectable areas over the last decade. I certainly did, make money, and I'm no genius.
I'm generalizing and this statement isn't about Laura but a bull market is not the best time to determine ones investment or advisory skills.
I don't know if the market has "crashed" or not but there is some serious softening that's for sure. Unsold lots are increasing and reserves are high. Most of the bargains won't happen until consignments go through the auction once, with a reserve, and don't sell. When they appear the second time with a smaller or no reserve that's when there will be some real bargains. If the owners are eager to sell that is.
It's like real estate - he has to sell his coins to buy mine.
<< <i>Cash flow has certainly been hit. Sold 2 coins at the summer ANA and so far I've been able to collect 25% of the sales price.
It's like real estate - he has to sell his coins to buy mine. >>
Zoinks!
I did not know you operated a coin financing arm.
<< <i>Cash flow has certainly been hit. Sold 2 coins at the summer ANA and so far I've been able to collect 25% of the sales price. >>
Did you sell to a dealer or collector?
Under current conditions collectors should be cautious when consigning coins to a dealer. You better make sure you will get paid or at least be able to get your coins back if they don't sell.
<< <i>
<< <i>Cash flow has certainly been hit. Sold 2 coins at the summer ANA and so far I've been able to collect 25% of the sales price. >>
Did you sell to a dealer or collector?
Under current conditions collectors should be cautious when consigning coins to a dealer. You better make sure you will get paid or at least be able to get your coins back if they don't sell. >>
Okay, now you are really beginning to scare me.
I bid 10 or 20% off the graysheet and lose virtually every auction. With this approach, I win one auction for every ten I lose.
What happened the last 2 times coin prices spiked? The Market crashed. What happened the last couple of times gold spiked? It crashed. What happened when oil spiked? It crashed. What happened when Real Estate spiked? It crashed.
Image not to scale, but you get the idea.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Thanks but it's really just my very small experience. The dealers have a better feel.
<< <i>Interesting read boys, It makes me wonder, if coin doctors are getting so good as to go undetectable by the best graders in the industry, then it does not matter. These coins, over time will become the new look, the new standard and the new demand and "original" coins will not be wanted anymore. >>
A Scott Travers book had a section on "Confessions of a Coin Doctor" which said (ten years ago) that the hot-shot twenty and thirty-somethings that the grading services hire like the "look' of cleaned and recolored copper coins, since that is most often what gets slabbed RED with high grades, and were likely to reject original coins as "AT" or "corroded"
Any crash in the coin market will likely be due to overhyped junk and overpromised "gauarantees" which far exceed the net worth of the grading companies. Anyone for a taxpayer bailout?
If somebody is dumping all there Hudson or Spanish Trail commems, early date half cents or bust halves, drop me a line.
Off the soapbox.
Coins are not to be compared to junk realestate or cookbooked stocks or even the manipulated commodity makets. We are talking priceless pieces
of history that can never be replaced or recreated. How could you even think to compare the Rare Coin market to some of those other blase and worthless
items?
The planets are all lining up behind Coins, you can see signs in the stars as to their supernatural supremacy as the ultimate investment opportunity of this century.
Get in before its to late. This is just a little breather before the really big run starts on January 1st..... I read it in the stars and the planets stand behind it, its got to be so.