<< <i>Don't worry, the mint is going to tinker with the numbers to leave us in doubt. >>
You joke but if I did not know any better, I would say that is exactly what is going to happen....a poorly run business which apprears to have no accountability.
The 1/4 ounce drop makes sense because I believe it was the first to go on backorder and then N/A...but I'm still not buying that the other Uncs are not still way too high...including the 1/4...and that they won't be revised downward...significantly. And don't get me started on how the 1 ounce ACTUALLY WENT UP?!?
And as for the proofs...I don't think this is showing the true magnitude of the wheels coming off over last weekend and into Monday...too many options went on backorder simultaneously for such small changes in percentages (and actual sales numbers) to be popping up here...for example 79 4-coins sets...I think the people on this board probably attempted to buy more than that alone. So I don't think the Monday Massacre is being reflected here.
Any combination that adds up to those and it is a tie, any less and new keys, any more and it is semi-keys or worse.
Well I think based on what happened with the unc w plat it is possible to break those numbers so why I say it all depends on next week. If they are higher than this then we get to wonder what the real numbers are all over again. If it is lower then it is good news as no more backorders are happening so everything in the report should be the worst perhaps.
Mintage isn't the only factor affecting the price of platinum proofs.
The 2004-W plats were widely distributed to collectors who were not aware of the impending low mintage. As a consequence, there are probably no large 2004-W hoards overhanging the market, and there are fewer speculators accumulating and selling these coins. The opposite is true for the 2008-W proofs, so prices of these coins will probably be more volatile on both the upside and downside until a sufficient number of them have found permanent homes in collections.
It will be interesting if the 2008 numbers eventually come in higher than 2004. Will that cause a flood of returns and backorder cancellations? What if that action then causes them to fall back below 2004? It'll be like a game of chicken.
Better watch the numbers carefully...I am going to return my extras to the mint if the numbers are above 2004 and 2005 next week...I can tell there are many virgins in this forum who have not been screwed by the mint so be careful and read everything you can and watch the numbers before the 30 days runs out!
This morning the last of the US Mint's 2008 platinum products sold out. The only platinum product which remains available for sale is the 2007 10th Anniversary Platinum Eagle Set.
As it stands, all 2008-W Uncirculated Platinum Eagles are gone, including the 1 oz, 1/2 oz, 1/4 oz, 1/10 oz individual options and the 4 Coin Set. All 2008 Proof Platinum Eagles are gone, also including the 1 oz, 1/2 oz, 1/4 oz, 1/10 oz individual options and the 4 Coin Set.
The official sell outs for these products mark a somewhat bittersweet ending. In November the US Mint announced a large number of product discontinuations for 2009, which included the majority of the collectible Platinum Eagle offerings. The only platinum coin that will return next year is the One Ounce Proof Platinum Eagle.
Over at Numismaster, the latest Mint Stats through December 7th have been posted. The sales figures for all platinum coins are included below. The first column shows the individual totals per product type. The second column shows the cumulative totals per coin (individual sales plus 4 coin set sales).
2008-W Uncirculated Platinum Eagle Sales Figures 1 oz 1,951 4,109 1/2 oz 1,257 3,415 1/4 oz 1,778 3,936 1/10 oz 2,485 4,643 4 Coin 2,158
2008 Proof Platinum Eagle Sales Figures 1 oz 2,432 4,728 1/2 oz 1,056 3,352 1/4 oz 1,293 3,589 1/10 oz 2,810 5,106 4 Coin 2,296
For the uncirculated coins, the sales number increased for the 1 ounce coin and decreased for the 1/4 ounce coin. The last time I looked at these sales figures, I ran comparisons to the prior 2006 & 2007-W Platinum Eagle mintages. Low numbers for 2008 are now the 1/2 ounce coin and 1/10 ounce coin, which are lower than 2007 numbers, but still above 2006.
On the proof side, the numbers will continue to grow since they only report sales through December 7th. It appears that a big rush of buying may have taken place early this week, which might have a big impact. The current numbers are still comfortably below the 2007 Proof Platinum Eagle mintages. However, we will have to revisit this next week when new numbers for 2008 become available.
ALL of the proof plats I ordered on Monday are now in the ready to ship department. ALL had the cancel box removed so they either:
1] Are suddenly very fast in filling orders
or
2] There aren't a lot of proofs
or
3] The mint is locking in our orders so we can't change our minds because they made a bazillion
I was hoping they wouldn't get ready with these orders until next Wednesday after the next sales numbers are released but it looks like they may ship before then, but who knows.
3] The mint is locking in our orders so we can't change our minds because they made a bazillion
The Mint is an organization that doesn't care about collectors and rarely thinks about them. It's a "business" that fails to see the logic of offering a refund when a repricing takes place in the 30 day return window, and instead requires customers to return and reorder. The Mint lacks the capacity to plot and scheme against us; we're lucky when they can count to 3,000.
I was hoping they wouldn't get ready with these orders until next Wednesday after the next sales numbers are released but it looks like they may ship before then, but who knows.
I wouldn't worry about it; seems unlikely the next sales figures will be significantly higher-- the 2008s shouldn't have any problem beating the 2004s.
<< <i>3] The mint is locking in our orders so we can't change our minds because they made a bazillion
The Mint is an organization that doesn't care about collectors and rarely thinks about them. It's a "business" that fails to see the logic of offering a refund when a repricing takes place in the 30 day return window, and instead requires customers to return and reorder. The Mint lacks the capacity to plot and scheme against us; we're lucky when they can count to 3,000.
I was hoping they wouldn't get ready with these orders until next Wednesday after the next sales numbers are released but it looks like they may ship before then, but who knows.
I wouldn't worry about it; seems unlikely the next sales figures will be significantly higher-- the 2008s shouldn't have any problem beating the 2004s. >>
NY council I think the mint cared about collectors that is why they came out with all these collector versions of popular coins these past three years. Even the 2008 W buffalo fractionals were for collectors and sure seem popular now that they have sold out.
I think the problem with what the mint did, and what they probably never studied, was is it wise to have collector version coins and bullion coin having the same basic designs except for a mintmark.
And twenty years from now will normal people even remember if some were sold direct from the mint or through bullion networks? Not many.
So what we want today doesn't matter, it is what the coin are seen as long-term.
Had the mint come out with all new designs for the collector coins I think things might have been different.
For example instead of using the silver eagle design for the W coins they should have used the Morgan dollar design. That would have sold millions.
For the buffalo W they should have used the gold eagle design instead of the buffalo nickle perhaps. It would have sold triple what it did.
<< <i>ALL of the proof plats I ordered on Monday are now in the ready to ship department. ALL had the cancel box removed so they either:
1] Are suddenly very fast in filling orders
or
2] There aren't a lot of proofs
or
3] The mint is locking in our orders so we can't change our minds because they made a bazillion
I was hoping they wouldn't get ready with these orders until next Wednesday after the next sales numbers are released but it looks like they may ship before then, but who knows. >>
The Proof plats I ordered 12/8 (1oz, 1/2oz, and 1/4oz) are in-process and cancel box gone. The Proof buffs that I ordered 12/1 are still waiting.
Comments
One more to go!!!!
I suspect this was just a web oversight...I think the set actually became unavailable during the Monday Night Massacre/Sales Orgy!
<< <i>6.7% drop in 1/4oz.....oh 7over8????
Can we all agree that the numbers for the Proof plats should cover up to the point of backorder or at least very close?
<< <i>Don't worry, the mint is going to tinker with the numbers to leave us in doubt.
You joke but if I did not know any better, I would say that is exactly what is going to happen....a poorly run business which apprears to have no accountability.
The 1/4 ounce drop makes sense because I believe it was the first to go on backorder and then N/A...but I'm still not buying that the other Uncs are not still way too high...including the 1/4...and that they won't be revised downward...significantly. And don't get me started on how the 1 ounce ACTUALLY WENT UP?!?
And as for the proofs...I don't think this is showing the true magnitude of the wheels coming off over last weekend and into Monday...too many options went on backorder simultaneously for such small changes in percentages (and actual sales numbers) to be popping up here...for example 79 4-coins sets...I think the people on this board probably attempted to buy more than that alone. So I don't think the Monday Massacre is being reflected here.
1 ounce 1279
1/2 ounce 1711
1/4 ounce 1504
1/10 ounce 2055
Any combination that adds up to those and it is a tie, any less and new keys, any more and it is semi-keys or worse.
Well I think based on what happened with the unc w plat it is possible to break those numbers so why I say it all depends on next week. If they are higher than this then we get to wonder what the real numbers are all over again. If it is lower then it is good news as no more backorders are happening so everything in the report should be the worst perhaps.
A LOT OF MONEY DEPENDS ON THESE NUMBERS!
Let's be positive though.
The 2004-W plats were widely distributed to collectors who were not aware of the impending low mintage. As a consequence, there are probably no large 2004-W hoards overhanging the market, and there are fewer speculators accumulating and selling these coins. The opposite is true for the 2008-W proofs, so prices of these coins will probably be more volatile on both the upside and downside until a sufficient number of them have found permanent homes in collections.
<< <i>These are the numbers that matter, it is what had to be left to sell to tie 2004 with combined single and set sales for each size.
1 ounce 1279
1/2 ounce 1711
1/4 ounce 1504
1/10 ounce 2055
... >>
It will be interesting if the 2008 numbers eventually come in higher than 2004. Will that cause a flood of returns and backorder cancellations? What if that action then causes them to fall back below 2004? It'll be like a game of chicken.
Better watch the numbers carefully...I am going to return my extras to the mint if the numbers are above 2004 and 2005 next week...I can tell there are many virgins in this forum who have not been screwed by the mint so be careful and read everything you can and watch the numbers before the 30 days runs out!
Thursday, December 11, 2008
2008-W Uncirculated & Proof Platinum Eagle Sales Figures
This morning the last of the US Mint's 2008 platinum products sold out. The only platinum product which remains available for sale is the 2007 10th Anniversary Platinum Eagle Set.
As it stands, all 2008-W Uncirculated Platinum Eagles are gone, including the 1 oz, 1/2 oz, 1/4 oz, 1/10 oz individual options and the 4 Coin Set. All 2008 Proof Platinum Eagles are gone, also including the 1 oz, 1/2 oz, 1/4 oz, 1/10 oz individual options and the 4 Coin Set.
The official sell outs for these products mark a somewhat bittersweet ending. In November the US Mint announced a large number of product discontinuations for 2009, which included the majority of the collectible Platinum Eagle offerings. The only platinum coin that will return next year is the One Ounce Proof Platinum Eagle.
Over at Numismaster, the latest Mint Stats through December 7th have been posted. The sales figures for all platinum coins are included below. The first column shows the individual totals per product type. The second column shows the cumulative totals per coin (individual sales plus 4 coin set sales).
2008-W Uncirculated Platinum Eagle Sales Figures
1 oz 1,951 4,109
1/2 oz 1,257 3,415
1/4 oz 1,778 3,936
1/10 oz 2,485 4,643
4 Coin 2,158
2008 Proof Platinum Eagle Sales Figures
1 oz 2,432 4,728
1/2 oz 1,056 3,352
1/4 oz 1,293 3,589
1/10 oz 2,810 5,106
4 Coin 2,296
For the uncirculated coins, the sales number increased for the 1 ounce coin and decreased for the 1/4 ounce coin. The last time I looked at these sales figures, I ran comparisons to the prior 2006 & 2007-W Platinum Eagle mintages. Low numbers for 2008 are now the 1/2 ounce coin and 1/10 ounce coin, which are lower than 2007 numbers, but still above 2006.
On the proof side, the numbers will continue to grow since they only report sales through December 7th. It appears that a big rush of buying may have taken place early this week, which might have a big impact. The current numbers are still comfortably below the 2007 Proof Platinum Eagle mintages. However, we will have to revisit this next week when new numbers for 2008 become available.
1] Are suddenly very fast in filling orders
or
2] There aren't a lot of proofs
or
3] The mint is locking in our orders so we can't change our minds because they made a bazillion
I was hoping they wouldn't get ready with these orders until next Wednesday after the next sales numbers are released but it looks like they may ship before then, but who knows.
The Mint is an organization that doesn't care about collectors and rarely thinks about them. It's a "business" that fails to see the logic of offering a refund when a repricing takes place in the 30 day return window, and instead requires customers to return and reorder. The Mint lacks the capacity to plot and scheme against us; we're lucky when they can count to 3,000.
I was hoping they wouldn't get ready with these orders until next Wednesday after the next sales numbers are released but it looks like they may ship before then, but who knows.
I wouldn't worry about it; seems unlikely the next sales figures will be significantly higher-- the 2008s shouldn't have any problem beating the 2004s.
<< <i>3] The mint is locking in our orders so we can't change our minds because they made a bazillion
The Mint is an organization that doesn't care about collectors and rarely thinks about them. It's a "business" that fails to see the logic of offering a refund when a repricing takes place in the 30 day return window, and instead requires customers to return and reorder. The Mint lacks the capacity to plot and scheme against us; we're lucky when they can count to 3,000.
I was hoping they wouldn't get ready with these orders until next Wednesday after the next sales numbers are released but it looks like they may ship before then, but who knows.
I wouldn't worry about it; seems unlikely the next sales figures will be significantly higher-- the 2008s shouldn't have any problem beating the 2004s. >>
NY council I think the mint cared about collectors that is why they came out with all these collector versions of popular coins these past three years. Even the 2008 W buffalo fractionals were for collectors and sure seem popular now that they have sold out.
I think the problem with what the mint did, and what they probably never studied, was is it wise to have collector version coins and bullion coin having the same basic designs except for a mintmark.
And twenty years from now will normal people even remember if some were sold direct from the mint or through bullion networks? Not many.
So what we want today doesn't matter, it is what the coin are seen as long-term.
Had the mint come out with all new designs for the collector coins I think things might have been different.
For example instead of using the silver eagle design for the W coins they should have used the Morgan dollar design. That would have sold millions.
For the buffalo W they should have used the gold eagle design instead of the buffalo nickle perhaps. It would have sold triple what it did.
<< <i>ALL of the proof plats I ordered on Monday are now in the ready to ship department. ALL had the cancel box removed so they either:
1] Are suddenly very fast in filling orders
or
2] There aren't a lot of proofs
or
3] The mint is locking in our orders so we can't change our minds because they made a bazillion
I was hoping they wouldn't get ready with these orders until next Wednesday after the next sales numbers are released but it looks like they may ship before then, but who knows. >>
The Proof plats I ordered 12/8 (1oz, 1/2oz, and 1/4oz) are in-process and cancel box gone. The Proof buffs that I ordered 12/1 are still waiting.