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Now a "red" bean label for Ike attributes?!?!?
Geoman
Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭
Is this new???...... link
Looks like a group that will attribute ("DIVA" Attribution services) Ikes, and place a very similar red sticker on the holder. They also place the stickers on raw coins if you look in the photos. Has anyone seen this before?
Is it a take off of the green bean sticker? Or has this "DIVA" Attribution service been around for a while.
Looks like a group that will attribute ("DIVA" Attribution services) Ikes, and place a very similar red sticker on the holder. They also place the stickers on raw coins if you look in the photos. Has anyone seen this before?
Is it a take off of the green bean sticker? Or has this "DIVA" Attribution service been around for a while.
0
Comments
I wonder if this puts pressure on PCGS for attributing Ikes?
so confusing. who needs to learn in this hobby? just follow the sticker ;-)
The DIVA Program.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>so diva copied cac. cac copied eagle eye. eagle eye copied who?
so confusing. who needs to learn in this hobby? just follow the sticker ;-) >>
I don't believe that the DIVA Sticker is so much about retarding learning as much as it is about information sharing and qualified attribution by folks that have an in depth knowledge of this coin. There are, after all, collectors out there that go above and beyond the simple grading and gathering of coins and these folks, regardless of what series they collect, need a source from which to draw information and ideas. DIVA addresses this.
The IKE Group is comprised of collectors that have studied this coin for years and then came together to discuss and share the results of their individual studies.
The Web Site and the DIVA program is a step in the right direction for getting recognition of the many different types of IKEs that are out there which brings more depth to the collections of those that have a passion for this particular series beyond its 32 coins.
This is what coin collecting is all about.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>so diva copied cac. cac copied eagle eye. eagle eye copied who?
so confusing. who needs to learn in this hobby? just follow the sticker ;-) >>
I don't believe that the DIVA Sticker is so much about retarding learning as much as it is about information sharing and qualified attribution by folks that have an in depth knowledge of this coin. There are, after all, collectors out there that go above and beyond the simple grading and gathering of coins and these folks, regardless of what series they collect, need a source from which to draw information and ideas. DIVA addresses this.
The IKE Group is comprised of collectors that have studied this coin for years and then came together to discuss and share the results of their individual studies.
The Web Site and the DIVA program is a step in the right direction for getting recognition of the many different types of IKEs that are out there which brings more depth to the collections of those that have a passion for this particular series beyond its 32 coins.
This is what coin collecting is all about. >>
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
A good example is the top TPG's failure to attribute and holder the 1971-D RDV-006. A true and easily identified variety that has been ignored for 9 years.
The name is LEE!
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>Have you seen a holder with a diva and a cac sticker yet?
CAC does not even look at Eisenhower Dollars.
The name is LEE!
Additionally, for $10 they will photograph the coin and the often minuscule details that make it special.
I plan to use this service for many die varieties over the coming months. Most of the coins I will submit will already be in TPG holders, but have details that the TPG's are not concerned with.
Aaron
In case anybody is wondering what DIVA stands for - it is Designated Ike VAriety. The following is from the Ike Group website - www.ikegroup.org.
<<The Ike Group has created a new Ike catalog system which incorporates all the established and all the new Ike Varieties and interesting die-state coins. We call these Ikes “DIVA’s”, Designated Ike Varieties.>>
variety it is?
does one really need to ship off coins to a group of people who place stickers
on them?
i find the whole thing to be quite strange to be honest. if you know it is a
variety XYZ... why do you need to have that stickered? You already know this
and can state it where and whenever you please?!?
but to each their own. i have learned long ago that there is a lot of people
in this hobby that I think have strange ideas of what works for them.
variety it is?>>
No. I can't even remember now all the spurious 1972 Philly type 2's that I have seen up on ebay that were NOT type 2's*.
It seems like anytime one finds a damaged Ike with the Carribbean islands scraped off the earth, they call it a rare type 2, even if it is a Denver mint.
*edited to add:
Thanks to watchdogs Rob and Lee, some of these aren't up long.
Let's be clear: The DIVA sticker is in no way related to the CAC in concept. Our sticker is very simply meant to designate a specific variety of that particular coin. We are not trying to compete or gain some previuosly undeveloped market share for profitability. Our soul intent is to identify and label these specific varieties of Eisenhower dollars, as there are many. Several are point-blank/naked-eye obvious and readily apparent. Others need a little more attention. Lee is certainly correct about the FEV, and all his comments about this being our effort to bolster the Eisenhower collecting community.
We have many rarities within the Ike series that make some of the more commonly known coins like the type 2 or FEV pale in comparision. As an example, and quickest on the top of my mind, is a thread I posted on our website the other day about a 1973 S business strike that has a reverse stuck with a proof die. This is merely one example of the many oddities/rarities we discuss and share with one another.
Quite frankly, if there are people who don't like the DIVA sticker that's fine; it has no bearing on our efforts, nor are we concerned. Our mission is not to please the masses. In fact, we post our mission statement clearly on our website. Our intent with the DIVA stickers somewhat parallels the original ideas behind the VAM numbers. It's the same concept. There are way more varieties of Ikes than those that collect Ikes are often times aware. We have decided to put an effort into bringing about this awareness.
Does the Ike Group think that the TPG's should further recognize Ike varieties or "DIVA's"? Yes, to a degree. Much like the VAM's some are more popular and outright visible. Others markers are physically there, but perhaps more abundant or of little interest due to the size or type of clash mark, die break, etc.
Are we pushing them to make these attributes? Not really. Sure, we'd like to see them at least attribute the main ones, just like the HOT 50 etc., but we're not writing letters or beating on doors of TPG's every day to make that happen. We're just doing our thing because we are confident of what we know and what we have proven within our group - and are now educating those around us who are interested. Perhaps if the collecting community takes to our ideas, the TPG's will take interest. If not, that's fine too. Time will tell. We've got plenty.
We're open to anyone who wants to learn and further their Ike collecting experience.
*spelling*
<< <i>when buying or selling IKEs is it not enough to simply state what
variety it is? >>
Nope!
<< <i>does one really need to ship off coins to a group of people who place stickers
on them? >>
Yes, consensus from unbiased third party folks always trumps individual opinion. You might be surprised how many 1972 Type 1 coins get auctioned off as Type 2 coins.
<< <i>i find the whole thing to be quite strange to be honest. if you know it is a
variety XYZ... why do you need to have that stickered? You already know this
and can state it where and whenever you please?!? >>
I received the following email from a whacky fellow on ebay when I tried selling an MS66 Friendly Eagle Variety 1971-D:
i think that is a bunch of bull because i compared your pictures to my 1977 ike dollar and i looked with the best microscope money can buy and your pictures match exactly what my ike looks like i think you are pulling some kind of scam and when i figure it out i am going to report you for falsifying records
Simply stated, folks trust third party opinions over collector and seller opinions. If PCGS would have attributed this coin, then the email probably would have stated how crazy I was for asking so much for "just an IKE"!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>when buying or selling IKEs is it not enough to simply state what variety it is?
does one really need to ship off coins to a group of people who place stickers on them? >>
I'm lost on these questions. How do they sound with the wording slightly modified?
When buying or selling Morgan and Peace/copper/proofs is it not enough to simply state what the VAM/color (RD/RB/BN)/cameo (none/CAM/DCAM) is?
Does one really need to ship off coins to a group of people who place them in slabs with a VAM/color/cameo/etc on them?
Does one really need to ship off coins to a group of people who place them in slabs with a grade or GENUINE on them?
<< <i>
<< <i>when buying or selling IKEs is it not enough to simply state what variety it is?
does one really need to ship off coins to a group of people who place stickers on them? >>
I'm lost on these questions. How do they sound with the wording slightly modified?
When buying or selling Morgan and Peace/copper/proofs is it not enough to simply state what the VAM/color (RD/RB/BN)/cameo (none/CAM/DCAM) is?
Does one really need to ship off coins to a group of people who place them in slabs with a VAM/color/cameo/etc on them?
Does one really need to ship off coins to a group of people who place them in slabs with a grade or GENUINE on them? >>
I am tired of the same old arguments and typing out replies. It gets
real old after a while but here it goes.
A slab protects the coin and has a guarantee it is authentic backed
by cold hard cash (PCGS). Everything else is pretty irrelevant and up for
debate (grade, color, etc..) which is how I think. So your points above
really do not work for me and I saw it coming.
Putting a sticker on a coin with a cute little card stating the variety
is so silly it blows my mind. If a buyer is not intelligent enough to
determine if the coin is what it is from pictures or in hand they probably
should not be buying it in my opinion. What good is saying "talon
head" if the buyer is too slow to even know where to look in the
first place to determine if it is true or not? Stating it in the title is
essentially the same as that little card... one still have to be intelligent
enough to verify the fact, sticker or not, right?
It seems like a good way to make some money off rubes though by
doing a copy cat plan of previous ideas. Who has the most vested
interest in making this sticker thing work? The ones who are already
deep into it. Natch.
But i know.. i know.. it is for the children (new collectors).
attribution service.. just makes me chuckle. something you could teach 98% of to
a 12 year old in a few days requires a service.. funny.
Aaron
<< <i>fc, thank you for taking time to explain your perspective to me. It is clearly well thought out and will help to mold my own (still developing) perspective on such things.
Aaron >>
everyone has to form their own opinions and how they wish to play this hobby.
i try to present my view which comes off rather harsh most of the time.. but i will
never say to someone don't do it or don't collect that. to each their own.
IKE collectors will still cherish their collections and life goes on.
How many 55/55 Lincolns were spent in the local cash register because folks did not know what they were? How many 1893-S Morgans were spent given the fact that there are so many in lower grades?
Collecting today is not as simple a matter as running down to the bank with cash in hand to exchange for countless quantities of coin to search through as those days are long gone! Collecting today amounts to buying and selling those past bank freebies and can get quite expensive in the process. Just as expensive as simply buying the coins outright!
The odds of finding a 55/55 Lincoln in pocket change or at the local 7/11 are right up there with winning a major Power Ball and the same is true for literally any variety of "no longer circulating" coin. All searches are either through purchasing rolls ( and hoping you score ) or buying raw coins which must be graded for authenticity anyway.
I guess I just don't understand your lame attempts at bashing any type of third party grading or attribution efforts or services in the attempt to get folks to "spot" their own coins or search for their own coins since doing so is no longer possible with out spending large sums of money in the process. There are many collectors out there that simply wish to purchase these coins outright and having "expert" opinions associated with those varieties, that the TPG's do not attribute, is simply step in the right direction!
As for your getting "tired of the same old arguments and typing out replies", there are a lot of folks that get tired of reading the same old crap that spews off of your keyboard! Your arguments are based upon your "opinions" of what "you" think collecting and "satisfaction" in collecting should be and not what the real world is.
Not everybody can be an expert, as has been touted on these boards many times, and the end result is that collectors, as well as coin buyers, rely upon these opinions. If you could get off of your "holier than thou" high horse, perhaps you could see and understand see this but something tells me it ain;t going to happen.
The name is LEE!
I have written several published articles and 20-some that are hung on our web site.
My motto is "learn about the Ike varieties as there is plenty of low hanging fruit but it won't last forever".
We are an educational web site and don't buy or sell Ikes there.
The DIVA program attributes Ike varieties (including our opinion of the grade of a raw Ike) with complete transparency: this is the antithesis of the black-boxes out of which the major TPG's have to operate. I understand why they do so but we can afford to be transparent and interact with our submittors which can make for a whole lot of learning.
The DIVA Attribution Report Form is pre-printed with a list of all the major Ike Varieties about which we've written, again more transparency.
Go to our web site and go to the Forum topic on the 1971-S S/S RPM, the newest and still rarest (and most heavily weighted) PCGS Ike Registry component, you can learn more, far more about the S/S from us than from any other source. We joke about its dimutive size and unlike market makers we show with copious photos the die markers that allow anyone to search for it, even though several participants on the web site have found examples and it is to their financial detriment to give away the markers.
But the bottom line, as Andy put it, is that we're having fun and we're doing good work. Spend some time on the web site. You'll learn that there are two separate populations of the '72 T2 you mentioned, and a gazillion other Ike fascinomas. Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
<< <i>If I were CAC, I'd sue over the shape and overall look of the sticker. >>
You've got a point but then you aren't CAC now are ya?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>If I were CAC, I'd sue over the shape and overall look of the sticker. >>
You've got a point but then you aren't CAC now are ya? >>
No, but I am a lawyer.
<< <i>People collect IKE dollars? >>
I can remember getting them at the bank as a kid and spending them. Consequently, I can't think of them as collectible, except maybe the Brown box ones. A girl brought a proof set and a Brown box Ike to "show and tell" when I was about 8 years old. Until then, I didn't know that there was a source for coins other than circulation.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If I were CAC, I'd sue over the shape and overall look of the sticker. >>
You've got a point but then you aren't CAC now are ya? >>
No, but I am a lawyer. >>
Well I'm a computer programmer so whats yer point?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Well I'm a computer programmer so whats yer point? >>
You DIVA people are likely to get a cease and desist letter.
<< <i>People collect IKE dollars? >>
even i do not take a cheap shot like that ;-)
----
I guess an email to JA would determine how he feels about it... which
could then be a way to work things out to the satisfaction of both parties.. i will admit though, i thought it was a red colored CAC sticker
at first...
<< <i>
<< <i>Well I'm a computer programmer so whats yer point? >>
You DIVA people are likely to get a cease and desist letter. >>
Get your facts straight Mr. Lawyer since I am not a DIVA people.
Hmmmmm. What have we here?
Could this be "Customized Uniquely Imprinted" oval holographic stickers?
The name is LEE!
Even having a sticker is irrelevant. We don't really care if we just put a slab in zip lock or write on the holders with markers. Or would that be an infringement on the Sharpie maker company? Perhaps the Glad bag company has stipulations on the use of the yellow and blue makes green policy. What if we started our own slabbing service with no grade and just an attributuion?
The current stickers are bought from a supplier that takes orders from anyone, and prints whatever you would like on them for a price. That simple. That means ANYONE who pays can get what they want. Are the slabbed sticker police going to come and get us??
WHO CARES WHAT THE STICKER LOOKS LIKE! WHO CARES IF IT"S EVEN A STICKER!!! The Ike Group can still accomplish what we want with or without a sticker. It was merely a simple, quick, and cost effective identifier.
The amount of insecurity displayed on these boards by members is at times remarkable.
You are stiring mixed emotions and memories here. I was 36 when the Ikes first came out and 43 when they concluded. On top of everything else you are making me feel very old.
On a more pleasant note I remember getting Morgans as a kid at the bank with O mintmarks and even a CC once. I spent them, but considered then collectible. I couldn't collect them though due to the high face value.
Actually they are more available than half dollars it seems...
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
First if there is a cease and desist order, it will be from Eagle Eye to CAC....I think they took his idea of a clear sticker and turned it into a Green Bean.
I'm no lawyer, but there is no real way to "own" a generic shape. The color is radically different and the name isn't even close....so there.
No on to the real thread, this is an excellent idea. While I've never been a big proponent of Ike varieites (most of them are too small to see without an electron microscope),there have been a bunch of major varieties that have surfaced in recent years (Friendly Eagle, The Peg Leg 71-S that I promoted back in 1986....yes 86 and others). Since the values have gone up dramatically, isn't it a good idea to authentic these. The major TPG's have missed the boat here. Now you can get the major TPG grade, along with the attirbution combined.
Hats off to the group, and long live Ikes.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>looks like Pandora's box is open. I'd like a blue bean for my Mercs.
How about a refried bean instead?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
No, but I am a lawyer. >>
I wouldn't brag about that.
Franklin-Lover's Forum
<< <i>Free enterprise baby - if these guys can deliver a service people want, and find paying customers for it, good for them! >>
This is the correct response to hearing about this service.
If, for whatever reason, you don't like stickers (of whatever flavor), you are under no obligation to get them for your coins. You're not obligated to buy coins which already have them. If you do consider buying one, you can't be forced to pay even one extra penny more than you think the coin would be worth without the sticker, and should you decide to go through with the purchase, you even have the option of removing the sticker if you so choose.
What you don't get to do, though, is insist that other people respond to stickered coins the way you do. Carry on.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Lee, I'll second this comment you made, and is the reason why I will use the DIVA service.
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<< <i>I never thought of Ike as a Diva.
>>
That was the first thought that crossed my mind too.
You wouldn't believe how long it took to get him to sit still for this.
<< <i>
<< <i>I never thought of Ike as a Diva.
>>
That was the first thought that crossed my mind too. >>
Not all Ikes, just the worthy varieties.
And contrary to an earlier post, most are naked eye cherries once you know what to look for. That you can find on our IKE GROUP Web Site, given freely to anyone who cares to visit.
Sure, it takes a loupe or 'scope to bring the images that define the Varieties to life. But is that not the case for most numismatic varieties? And did they not mostly arise from collector-leaders in their respective collector communities?
Like the copious DD and RPM cent varieties, to full steps, to the VAM's, Ike varieties are now beginning to receive their just recognition. If worthy, and we surely think they are, Ike varieties will gradually be adopted by Ike collectors and eventually by the important TPGs.
Meanwhile the $1,200,000 dollars the Ike Group has invested to launch the DIVA Attribution Program appears to be money well spent.
Hold on, make that $520.
The other $1,199,480 is the man-hours we've contributed over the past 5 years, loving every minute, especially when so many Ike people are supporting our work (MANY, MANY THANKS!!!).
Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
variety it is?>>
My final answer:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120348593524&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
This same coin has been offered on ebay several times by the same seller.
The same seller is also selling a real one.
Make sure you get the right one.