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1000oz Silver Bar Variation

MJPHELANMJPHELAN Posts: 821 ✭✭✭
in Precious Metals
HI All,

I have noticed that the Johnson Matthey 1000oz Comex bars are not exactly 1000oz. Does anyone know the range over which they are made? I bought one from the Tulving Co. awhile back and it weighs 1029.1oz.

Mark
Mark

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    CladiatorCladiator Posts: 18,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is it marked 1000oz or 1000oz+ or 1029.1oz?
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    dimplesdimples Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭
    NWT Mint states on their website they can vary + or - 70 ounces. They didn't state if the price reflected this difference. These bars also need to be assayed when sold.
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    DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>NWT Mint states on their website they can vary + or - 70 ounces. They didn't state if the price reflected this difference. These bars also need to be assayed when sold. >>




    Weights vary from around 15 under to 40 over on most bars. They tend to be over 1,000 far more often than not.

    NWT does need to be assayed. J&M doesn't.

    J&M and Engelhard are the only two that have the COMEX seal of approval, hence the price differences.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
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    DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    they can't pour exactly 1000 oz.

    I've seen as low as 950 oz. bars

    and as high as 1055 oz. bars.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
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    CladiatorCladiator Posts: 18,354 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>they can't pour exactly 1000 oz. >>

    Why not?
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    coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,528 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>they can't pour exactly 1000 oz. >>

    Why not? >>


    Because it is physically impossible to precisely control the flow of molten silver into a mold. The manufacture of extruded bars is much more precise, but also a much more expensive process.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

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    MJPHELANMJPHELAN Posts: 821 ✭✭✭
    It is marked 1029.1. Tulving sent a bill for the extra silver. They would have refunded the excess if it was less than 1000oz.

    Mark
    Mark
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    secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭


    << <i>they can't pour exactly 1000 oz. >>



    That seems pretty hard to believe. If they can produce 100 oz bars with great precision, they should be able to produce 1,000 oz. bars with simiilar precision. At a minimum, they could process the bar after pouring to shave it down to exactly 1,000 oz.

    My guess is that it has nothing to do with technology. It's probably a function of there not being demand (backed up by people willing to pay a little extra) for bars that are exactly 1,000 ounces. At that level, there is probably more demand for bars that are cheaper to make and which are 1,000 plus or minus 30 or 50 ounces.
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
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    DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭
    I'm sure that they could be processed after pouring, but that adds cost.
    Becky
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    carscars Posts: 1,904
    believe I'd be a little upset if I paid for a 1000oz and only received 950
    Its all relative
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    MJPHELANMJPHELAN Posts: 821 ✭✭✭
    Tulving has a photo of a 1000oz bar on their website that is exactly 1000oz. On Tulving (and I presume other sites) you only pay for the exact amount of silver in the bar.
    Mark
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    CladiatorCladiator Posts: 18,354 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>they can't pour exactly 1000 oz. >>

    Why not? >>


    Because it is physically impossible to precisely control the flow of molten silver into a mold. The manufacture of extruded bars is much more precise, but also a much more expensive process. >>

    Physically impossible, unlikely. Difficult enough to not be profit worthy, highly likely. No one will ever convince me that it's impossible to make a poured bar that is 1000 ounces, + or - less than 1 ounce. Even if they don't do it because it's not profit worthy I don't see why they couldn't use shaving and/or adjustments to make it exactly 1000oz. I think that those that are spending the kind of cash it takes to buy a 1000oz bar simply do not care about a measily dozen or two ounces that it could be + or -.
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    ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 8,121 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree, something doesn't make sense. If you can do 100oz with preceision, why not 1000? The process and technology should be scalable.
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    MJPHELANMJPHELAN Posts: 821 ✭✭✭
    Here is the link to a photo of a 1000oz bar that is exactly 1000oz (from the Tulving site)

    1000oz Bar

    Mark
    Mark
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