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Make it rich with PayPal - Find out how within
jessewvu
Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭✭✭
According to PayPal's internal documentation, all you have to do to scam people with paypal is file a "Significantly not as discribed" claim. PayPal will (and I confimed this is policy with a senior rep/supervisor) always, 100% of the time side with the person making the claim. The seller can appeal the fund reversal but PayPal will not review any additional documentation or evidence, period. They will allow it to go into an appeal status, but they will not act on it. Buyer wins. The only time they would appeal a not as discribed claim is if the buyer has a history of it.
This was all just confirmed and I am out $816.
This was all just confirmed and I am out $816.
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it turned out to be nickel and copper. yes, i had to open it to find
out so i could not return it as it was before.
paypal told me to pound sand and the seller won.
i thought it was a no brainer fraud case... counterfeit stuff sold
with a COA... and i should have gotten a return of my money minus
shipping costs both ways.
could you tell us more of your story/problem with paypal?
how can the person say it was not as described.. and not return it
and get the money? That I do not get at all.
Is there a time limit on the claim?
I lost a claim against a richardhead seller once; no coa, seller wouldn't furnish one and would not replace silver set; ed. even though he had several more.
Steve
<< <i>Doesn't the 'buyer' have to at the least return the item?
Steve >>
I would think that was a prerequisite of the refund.
Joe
I would love to take this SOB to court but it is his word against mine and he is in a state about 10 hours away.
rick38liner is his ebay id.
Item does not have to be returned for refund, you are out the item and money.
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I pointed out to PayPal in a rather long winded email, probably more for myself than for them, that the buyer could easily: 1) open a box; 2) take a dump in it; 3) add tracking to the package and ship it to me. And that when I received my box of feces I would be SOL.
<< <i>
<< <i>Doesn't the 'buyer' have to at the least return the item?
Steve >>
I would think that was a prerequisite of the refund. >>
I would have thought so, too. Until this past March, when PayPal took money from me to give back to the buyer, even though the coin had not been returned to me. I eventually got the coin back, but still...
IF in fact a senior rep could be quoted for saying what you said he did, that would lead to major legal problems for paypal I would think.
Sorry to hear about your loss.
Personally, I invested quite enough time on ebay and have in the last few months made a decision to not invest any more time with it until their policy changes, especially with regards to the one way feedback and the substandard performance of their website, not to mention the ridiculous fees. Should there be a change in those items I'll re-examine my position but at this point we're not adding any more time with it.
Now we can be more independent because of our website (s), client base, referrals, the type of material I specialize in etc.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>What about insurance claim Jesse? I would file a insurance claim and have the post master get involved. >>
Can you do a claim on it??
Would it matter if you had the box weight metered by the PO?
That way if the returned box weight doesn't match it proves to the PO that it was messed with.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
<< <i>
<< <i>What about insurance claim Jesse? I would file a insurance claim and have the post master get involved. >>
Can you do a claim on it??
Would it matter if you had the box weight metered by the PO?
That way if the returned box weight doesn't match it proves to the PO that it was messed with. >>
Yes you can. I know a few postal workers because we talk football when I drop off my mail. I always have them double check the weight intial my receipt. I have had 2 postal insurance claim refunds by doing this. I always take pictures and ebay auction sheet along with the same coins or item I sell, I have the post master re weigh the box and this way I alway win because I am not a liar or thief. I am a christian of oh might God. But there are some dishonest people along with the ones that if you leave open a pocket book and they steal something for nothing they figure it's your fault in the first place by putting them in that circumstance.
Good Luck Jesse. Sig conformation and return reciept is the only way I send things. Yea a few extra dollars but when we are talking about $100+ items if you don't see the crooks out there you must wake the f up.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
<< <i>What about insurance claim Jesse? I would file a insurance claim and have the post master get involved. >>
I advised the Postmaster and Postal inspector of this and when he shipped the package back, I had both look at the box. They confirmed that the box was not tampered with and stated that insurance is for LOSS OR DAMAGE and since he signed for the package, they were nolonger liable. Him accepting the package released them from liability. The Postmaster even signed a document stating the weight of the original package when it was shipped (2lbs 6oz) and the weight/contents of the package that he shipped back (6.8oz and contained bubble wrap and packing paper). I had the Postmaster weight it and stand by me when I opened it. PayPal told me they would not consider it because it was not on official Post Office letterhead and it was a moot point anyway because they would not review my appeal. I called PayPal no less than 25 times in the two months these claims/appeals were occuring.
I also stated that I would be willing to take it to the Post Master General and take a polygraph. My local police dept would not take a police report and neither would the police dept in MA because I could not confirm where the coins were stolen.
I haven't read all the replys yet but if I hear another jerk say "it's part of doing business", I think I am going to throw up
<< <i>I sent buyer a PCGS First Spouse coin and a PCGS MS70 ASE. Buyer states the coins were not recieved, opens Paypal case at my request. I provide signature confirmation and PayPal closes the case. Buyer states coins were not as described (did not receive them). I asked buyer to send box back to me so I could check for tampering. Buyer told PayPal he sent me back the box and I stated I received back an empty box. PayPal closed the case and gave him back his money. I appealed and paypal reopened the case but told me they will not review any additional information and to have a nice evening.
I would love to take this SOB to court but it is his word against mine and he is in a state about 10 hours away.
rick38liner is his ebay id. >>
Not trying to be snippy here Jesse but you did ask him to "send the box back" as stupid as it may sound!
Had the box been tampered with?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Never leave funds in your paypal account. Always have at least two paypal accounts and two ebay accounts. If you have a situation where someone is trying to rip you off with a false claim, just shut down the applicable papal account and ebay account. Honest people have to be prepared for dishonest people. >>
The moment a claim is filed against you it is impossible to fully shut down your account with Paypal. The account has to be free and clear of all claims before Paypal will shut down the account.
Now, withdrawing your funds from the bank account that is attached to the Paypal account is probably doable as long as there isn't a CC attached that is other than a 'pay-as-you-go' type of card.
So, fast forward. He told PayPal that he shipped back a box and I put in one of my emails that he did ship back an empty box. But he also stated that he received SOME of the contents, just not the two pcgs coins, which he has never returned. The funny thing is he provided a tracking number for the package and there wasn't one. He just paid for postage. I asked him where he got that number from and why he said he returned the box anyway... Crickets from him.
<< <i>Never leave funds in your paypal account. Always have at least two paypal accounts and two ebay accounts. If you have a situation where someone is trying to rip you off with a false claim, just shut down the applicable papal account and ebay account. Honest people have to be prepared for dishonest people. >>
I don't play games to get around policies. I have only one eBay/paypal account and don't need another for any reason.
It is only a matter of time that it happens to all of us.
Sellers are at the buyers mercy.
Joe
What a PITA blocked and sorry to hear about your mishaps.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
It's ok if the items are cheaper and one in hundreds gets lost but for expensive coins it's too risky. One big loss hurts enough to make it not worth selling.
Sorry to hear about this, it stinks!
<< <i>
<< <i>Never leave funds in your paypal account. Always have at least two paypal accounts and two ebay accounts. If you have a situation where someone is trying to rip you off with a false claim, just shut down the applicable papal account and ebay account. Honest people have to be prepared for dishonest people. >>
I don't play games to get around policies. I have only one eBay/paypal account and don't need another for any reason. >>
It's not called playing games, it's called protecting yourself, something you didn't do but should have done. What you went through is reason enough for me to have more than one paypal account. I too am sorry you got ripped. I'm just presenting a way to keep it from happening again. You gotta watch your own back, paypal has proven to you they are not gonna do it.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
<< <i>
<< <i>Never leave funds in your paypal account. Always have at least two paypal accounts and two ebay accounts. If you have a situation where someone is trying to rip you off with a false claim, just shut down the applicable papal account and ebay account. Honest people have to be prepared for dishonest people. >>
The moment a claim is filed against you it is impossible to fully shut down your account with Paypal. The account has to be free and clear of all claims before Paypal will shut down the account.
Now, withdrawing your funds from the bank account that is attached to the Paypal account is probably doable as long as there isn't a CC attached that is other than a 'pay-as-you-go' type of card. >>
Correct, you can not shut down a paypal account while there is an open dispute. It will just sit there with no funds in it until paypal gets tired of looking at it. Paypal is not authorized to charge to your credit card or touch the funds in your bank account - your agreement with them does not include them having that ability. If they hit your card you have the charges reversed as unauthorized.
The only point I am trying to make in this discussion is to keep YOUR money out of Paypal's hands.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
The way to use it would be have another account or wife account and always move the funds out of your selling account.
(assuming they don't somehow hold seller account money)
Not to rip the system but if they don't have your money you have a better negotiating ability. That way you could be telling them "no way, re-open the case and check with the PO before they get the money back"
In the end you might need to give them the money or they can give your account a neg balance and get in on your credit report but in the mean time they might re-open it or give in.
It still stinks.
you have a pm............
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
<< <i>Never leave funds in your paypal account. Always have at least two paypal accounts and two ebay accounts. If you have a situation where someone is trying to rip you off with a false claim, just shut down the applicable papal account and ebay account. Honest people have to be prepared for dishonest people. >>
So, you close your bank account along with it? Sounds like fraud.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>Never leave funds in your paypal account. Always have at least two paypal accounts and two ebay accounts. If you have a situation where someone is trying to rip you off with a false claim, just shut down the applicable papal account and ebay account. Honest people have to be prepared for dishonest people. >>
So, you close your bank account along with it? Sounds like fraud. >>
No need to close your bank account, paypal is not authorized to touch your bank account unless you tell them to charge the account during a purchase where you don't have enough funds in your paypal account to cover the purchase. The only "blanket" authorization an ebayer has given anyone to touch a bank account is if the ebayer has authorized ebay to tap the bank account for seller fees on a monthly basis.
Guys, this is all about risk management. What can go wrong and how can I be prepared for it? My primary purpose for having more than one ebay account and more than one paypal account is what if either one gets hijacked or hacked. My business is not going to come to a halt because I wasn't smart enough to have a "Plan B."
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
<< <i>rick38liner is his ebay id. >>
Sorry to hear about your troubles, that is very frustrating indeed. I looked up that eBay ID, and was surprised to see he actually has a heck of a good feedback score of 742 (100%). I was expecting more along the lines of somebody with a 0 score. Seems kind of hard to believe a guy like that would suddenly go "bad" and become hellbent on ripping you off intentionally. My gut tells me either some rogue from the USPS stole your coin and did an excellent job of hiding the evidence of tampering, or one of the buyer's relatives or acquaintances stole the coin while he had his back turned. You never know.
I received an empty package in the mail myself once; the box was visibly damaged (ripped open) and even had an apology letter from the mail sorting facility attached to it. I figured the insurance claim for loss of contents would be a cut-and-dry case, but amazingly the postal service had the gall to deny the claim on it. I filed an appeal and eventually got my money, but it was a big hassle. Personally, I think postal insurance is a crock. With very few exceptions, I almost never use it anymore. The way they put you through the ringer when you try and get your money back, it's hardly worth the time and aggravation. I'd rather just eat the loss.
Is using only paypal the collect payment more safe than accepting checks or money orders?
I have been selling there since 1997, but stopped in the spring of 2008 because of their greed and poorly thought out new regulations. I'm done with them unless something changes.
feeding ebay and Pay Puss. I say it's high time to bring them
to their knees!
At the end of this year I'll put it in Park till they catch their heads
If they don't, I'll target all buyers that have proven to be PITAs
watch them like a hawk, turn things around & WILL get even! Let's see how they like it.
In the interim I will work on a website, the database being
comprised of all past buyers. The Hell with giving these ass-clowns
huge percentages and leaving us totally defenseless.
High time for this BS to stop, If anything I'll list cheap mchdse
under another ID and NO, I do NOT want to be a Power Seller.
I want No STRESS & No Mess! I'll find a way even if I work the BS&T
ONLY, while working on the site and under the new ID I'll find a way
to draw buyers' attention to the site to be when completed.
Time to put the BIG HURT on FeeBay and Pay-Punk!
It cost me about a hundred dollars per month to be a powerscrewer in fees. (plus I have to be so politically correct on ebay)
It cost me about seventy dollars for the tables. ( I could just be myself)
I sold about a thousand dollars per month on ebay. (always so careful not to be "delisted" because of my raunchy humor)
I sold a thousand dollars worth in two days at a show. (widgets and gems to people like Lance and Jim the coin god )
Hmmmmm.... Maybe I'll just work a show a few times per year and have fun with coin geeks.
Ebay is not for numismatics as sellers are concerned. PERIOD.
Sorry for your troubles, Jess. Find a show. Work a table.
(p.s. someone stole an 1894 O dime from me at the show)
If you're reading this.... LOVE THAT COIN like I did. It was FR-02 all day at PCGS, but I left it in the flip because I didn't believe it was worth encapsulating.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>paypal is not authorized to touch your bank account unless you tell them to charge the account during a purchase where you don't have enough funds in your paypal account to cover the purchase. The only "blanket" authorization an ebayer has given anyone to touch a bank account is if the ebayer has authorized ebay to tap the bank account for seller fees on a monthly basis. >>
Took me 10 minutes to stop laughing. You must be under the false impression rules and regulation apply equally to everyone. That's not how our legal injustice system works.
My husband, who has no idea about how to play on ebay, or how the money is funded, took off one night & made an ebay purchase. I hadn't used the ebay/paypal account for about 9 months and had depleted, not only the paypal account, but the bank account attached to it as well. His purchase was charged by ebay to my credit card because my paypal account & attached bank account could not completely fund his purchase.
So, I guess having more than one account is a blessing.
Great idea, but how with only one IP address do you do this?