1873 DDO [edit]

Comments

• Unknown

  November 24, 2008 2:00PM

  This content has been removed.
• CertifiedGoldCoins Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭

  November 25, 2008 1:03AM

  Interesting article, thanks for linking us to it.

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• CaptHenway Posts: 32,729 ✭✭✭✭✭

  November 25, 2008 5:04AM

  If I get a chance tonight, I will explain how you can get localized die doubling like this.
  TD

  Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.

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• tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭

  November 25, 2008 5:11AM

  
  
  ...............i saw a red X

  "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington

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• CaptHenway Posts: 32,729 ✭✭✭✭✭

  November 25, 2008 1:55PM

  A possible scenario for localized die doubling (during the era of multiple hub impressions):
  
  At the start of the hubbing process you have a relatively flat raised hub suspended upside down over a die blank that is shaped like a shallow cone pointing upwards.
  
  During the first hubbing squeeze, the point of the cone is flattened down, and the design appears in the die spreading outwards from the center. Instead of a cone, the end of the die now resembles a mesa that falls off towards the periphery.
  
  I don't know how many impressions it took to make a dime die, but let us assume for the sake of argument that after one particular impression the design was formed out to the shield, after which the die fell away at a dropoff I will call a shoulder.
  
  The die needed to be annealed (heated and allowed to cool slowly) after each impression to soften the die, which had become work hardened by the impression. When it was placed back under the hub, a rotational or pivotal misalignment could cause a classic doubled die, such as the 1955 cent.
  
  However, if the partially formed die is put back in the hubbing press tilted up at an angle, presumably overlapping part of the die holder, then the "shoulder" at one random point will be higher (and thus closer to the hub) than any other point. If the hub is then brought down slightly (perhaps to test the alignment?) it will then contact the partially formed die only when the raised shoulder falls under the hub. If that happens to be under the shield on the hub, then a partial shield could be formed, and little else.
  
  The hubbing press operator could realize his error, look at the die and see that only minor damage had been caused, and reposition the die for a finishing impression. Judging from the spectacular die doubling found in the 1872-1876 period, quality control did not seem to be an issue.
  
  Tom DeLorey

  Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.

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• collegecoincollector Posts: 426

  November 26, 2008 1:35PM

  ah, this does seem to make sense. good explanation, CaptHenway! especially if it took more than one or two partial impressions to make the die. since the shield is fairly close to the center of the dime it also means that the hub would have to be rotated or the die placed at an angle for the second (+) impression(s), and so i agree with your explanation. if the angled part of the die in the press lined up like this and only the shield had been impressed thus far i suppose it could happen.
  
  all of this happening at once seems like such a coincidence, but then again i guess it is how we have so many great doubled dies out there. and another good point you made: there were many doubled dies from the 1872-1876 era, and this dime is no exception! quality control must have indeed been low at the time.
  
  anybody else have any suggestions/comments?

  For those that don't know, I am starting pharmacy school in the fall.

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• seateddime Posts: 6,180 ✭✭✭

  November 26, 2008 7:58PM

  A very cool coin, one I listed in my top 5 varieties ( just my opinion )
  
  
  

  I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org
  
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• EagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭

  November 27, 2008 12:23AM

  Very cool! It looks like the 1873 DDO Cent with rotated hub doubling in the center of the coin only. TD's assessment of the first hubbing not fully impressing the cone shape of the unfinished die is what I believe as well.

  Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:

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• CaptHenway Posts: 32,729 ✭✭✭✭✭

  November 27, 2008 1:44PM

  A great example of incomplete first hubbing is the 1916 DDO nickel. You can see how the first impression fades out before it gets to the rim. The second impression was complete.
  TD

  Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.

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• robkool Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭✭✭

  November 27, 2008 1:50PM

  An intresting article... Thanks for sharing...

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