Is it better to crack out a coin before sending it for crossover?

Halfhunter06 · November 24, 2008 10:24AM

This is an age old question. Does it REALLY matter though?

TomB · November 24, 2008 10:25AM

I doubt it matters very much to the graders, but if you crack the coin out prior to submission then you have lost your insurance policy to keep the coin in a slab.

JCMhouston · November 24, 2008 10:29AM

My opinion is yes, others may differ.

metalmeister · November 24, 2008 10:29AM

Question addendum. If no crack out, do you cover the grade with tape?

dwssws · November 24, 2008 10:31AM

just went 7/8 in the slab so would say no ( plus as stated previously you lose the grade of the other slab as protection)

doh · November 24, 2008 10:31AM

I wouldn't. If it doesn't cross for some reason at least it's still in a slab

roadrunner · November 24, 2008 10:36AM

For the vast majority of those in this hobby, for every winner or two (or three) you get, the one that BB's will wipe out everything and then some. And the ones that BB will be ones you never saw coming. And you'll spend a year or two trying to get rid of them at anything near what you paid....and usually ending up settling for a nice loss.

roadrunner

illini420 · November 24, 2008 10:36AM

If there is a huge drop in value between the coin in the current slab/grade vs. the coin in a PCGS slab a point lower, then no way do not crack!! Just try to cross it in the slab, if it doesn't cross, sell as is and find another and repeat. haven't done it myself, but that seems the safest. you also run the risk of the coin getting harmed during or after cracking and also the risk of the coin not slabbing at all and never getting back into a similar graded slab at any other company.

EvilEmpire · November 24, 2008 10:54AM

No, IMO. I went 5/8 (two upgrades from NGC slabs), only 1 really bummed me out . The BB's... one DNC (NGC MS65 Wash/Carv, going back), one questionable color (Wash/Carver 100% NT gold toned, going back also), and one ANACS 'altered surfaces', which I'll be calling ANACS about their guarantee. Not having 100% confidence in my grading ability, I always leave them in the existing slabs, for the very reason TomB states...at least its still in a sellable slab (though I stick strictly with PCGS, NGC, ANACS.....ICG for a VERY select few older series, as ICG is way too liberal-IMO-for alot of series, especially moderns). Also, where these eyes aren't getting any younger, I will rarely take a chance on raw, unless it's from someone that gives superior, HONEST service, like J.J. Teaparty, for one (not knocking others that are upstanding, just using them as an example). Every time I take a chance on raw on the bay, most times the pics are shopped or just terrible, to disguise obvious cleaning (over 80% raw return rate due to this).

lkenefic · November 24, 2008 12:43PM

I buy the coin and not the piece of plastic surrounding it, but I would say no... I've seen quite a bit of overgraded stuff in plastic and I'm thinking [as pendulums swing] grading standards will tighten up. I'd hate to advise someone to crack out a piece to resubmit only to have it come back in "better plastic" but 5 grading points less.

ColonialCoinUnion · November 24, 2008 12:47PM

<< For the vast majority of those in this hobby, for every winner or two (or three) you get, the one that BB's will wipe out everything and then some. And the ones that BB will be ones you never saw coming. And you'll spend a year or two trying to get rid of them at anything near what you paid....and usually ending up settling for a nice loss.

roadrunner >>

This is really good advice.

Boom · November 24, 2008 12:48PM

Personally speaking, if in a reputable slab - NO!

If in a questionable slab - check the coin thoroughly and then do whatever you feel is right.

Bascially, I agree with TomB.

KCC · November 24, 2008 1:09PM

Huh, this isn't turning out like I expected; I thought there would be a lot of recommendations to break it out first.

lkeigwin · November 24, 2008 1:09PM

I have a '23-S MS65 Peace dollar in an NGC slab. Maybe a $6500 coin.

I really want to add it to my PCGS registry set. But I couldn't bring myself to crack it out, particularly because of my firm belief that the white holder gives chills to PCGS graders.

It came back DNC. <sigh>

At least I have a shot at selling it at auction for something close to its value. If I'd cracked it out and it came back MS64 it'd be worth around $370.

Did I make the right call?

jmj3esq · November 24, 2008 1:15PM

I personally think it is better. Then agian I have had exceptional luck doing it.

drddm · November 24, 2008 1:20PM

1923-S Peace Dollar $370 in MS64 and $7000 in MS65.

WOW, now that's what I call a BIG differnce in price from one grade to another and a DAMN good reason not to crack out this coin.

I have sent in several NGC coins for crossover and while some have crossed, most have downgraded a point or two, but I would never crack out a coin with a HUGE price differnce from one grade to another like a '23-S Peace Dollar.

Like the majority of those who responded so far, leave the coin in. At least you are guaranteed it will come back in a slab.

crito · November 24, 2008 2:26PM

So what happens if you do a cross at any grade now that they're doing the genuine slabs? I mean do no-grades come back in original slab or do they get cracked out and put in a genuine slab?

Guess I'll write in minimum cross grades for all of them just to be on safe side...

Capgun · November 24, 2008 2:42PM

How about a pic of the coin in question?

Otherwise don't have an opinion on it.

mmotx · November 24, 2008 2:50PM

I think it all depends on how competent a grader you are. If you know something has a shot to go higher and is a lock at the lower grade, then you should certainly up the odds and crack it out. The only downside is there being some unforeseen rim damage on the coin. It really boils down to risk tolerance. I think we can all agree that a coin outside a slab has a better chance of grading higher than one in a slab. Whether the graders actually see the grade or not, once they see it is a slab, there is a psychological bias (at least in crosses to PCGS) to think, we are the best and we need to uphold that standard. With that in their mind, either consciously or not, it decreases the chances of a more lenient grade....be it tightening up .1 of a point or more. That said, many of the same coins will cross/upgrade if they should, but you will only get the full benefit when cracked. Coming full circle, good graders can play that game on a consistent enough basis to not need the guarantee behind the plastic.

melvin289 · November 24, 2008 3:23PM

PCGS has always said they will not compromise the integrity of the existing slab. So, why break it out and take the chance. You might get a 300 or 400 dollar NGC coin back in a 50 dollar PCGS slab.

Ron

Boom · November 24, 2008 3:54PM

<< I have a '23-S MS65 Peace dollar in an NGC slab. Maybe a $6500 coin.

I really want to add it to my PCGS registry set. But I couldn't bring myself to crack it out, particularly because of my firm belief that the white holder gives chills to PCGS graders.

It came back DNC. <sigh>

At least I have a shot at selling it at auction for something close to its value. If I'd cracked it out and it came back MS64 it'd be worth around $370.

Did I make the right call? >>

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Well, I guess you DID make the right move NOT cracking it out! Man !!

ArizonaJack · November 24, 2008 3:56PM

I just sent 3 biggies in for crossover at any grade. All NGC: 09-SVDB AU-53 ; AU-58 and a 1955 DDO AU-55. I will honestly post my grades upon receipt, I am confident in all 3 at equal grades, OR 1 grade down, no more. All 3 were ran by Ron Guth at Long Beach and given the thumbs up. Why did I do it? Because they sell quicker, period.

Boom · November 24, 2008 4:01PM

Good Luck. I am confident that you know your series quite well.

BIG Difference!

leothelyon · November 24, 2008 4:03PM

I think we can all agree that a coin outside a slab has a better chance of grading higher than one in a slab.

The coins I have cracked out are simply more stunning than I could have ever imagined. The plastic, no matter how clear it may be, is an obstacle to seeing the true aspects or intensities of the qualitues as if it were raw.
How tempting the desire must be to see a coin for what it is! The certification of coins has it's benefits but it's also robbing us from enjoying the hobby in a higher sense, at least for some of us.

Leo

19Lyds · November 24, 2008 4:16PM

<< I think we can all agree that a coin outside a slab has a better chance of grading higher than one in a slab.

The coins I have cracked out are simply more stunning than I could have ever imagined. The plastic, no matter how clear it may be, is an obstacle to seeing the true aspects or intensities of the qualitues as if it were raw.
How tempting the desire must be to see a coin for what it is! The certification of coins has it's benefits but it's also robbing us from enjoying the hobby in a higher sense, at least for some of us.
Leo >>

I can understand where you are coming from but for me, I know better.

I get the dropsies and uncontrollable twitches handling high grade coins.

LeeG · November 24, 2008 7:20PM

I always send the coin in the holder on the first attempt. Depending on the results, price point of the coin, and my grade, I may crack and resubmit. I've done pretty well over the years using this forumla. The key is the coin being very nice for the series/year. PCGS wants nice examples in their holders.

Coxe · November 24, 2008 7:27PM

I have only cracked out a single coin, so hardly an expert. (It was a long nock 1878-S VAM that came back BB'ed!) I seem to generally get decent results from standard, in-slab crossovers. I think it might make a diiference for things that are difficult to assess in plastic and thus they migth not cross in caution. This would be like for DMPL. Those can be real buggers to assess sometimes when they are in an old slab. That's why I still have lpenty in ANACS and NGC plastic. Why waste $$$ rolling the dice?

BUFFNIXX · November 24, 2008 8:46PM

Last month I sent four coins to pcgs for crossover, no minimum grades requested, as follows:

1) 1916/1916 doubled die obverse buffalo SEGS G06, which in my estimation is a solid VG10;
2) 1916/1916 PCI VG08 in a signiture series capsule signed by J T Stanton and correctly graded in my opinion.
3) 1936-d 3 and one half legged bison SEGS F12, which should have been a F15 in my opinion.
4) 1936-d 3 and one half legged bison SEGS F15 which was correctly graded.

I figured I would have no problem crossing them over since they did not seem to have any problems to me. Was I ever wrong. Results as follows:

coin #1 above did not cross because it was cleaned (?) It is not cleaned in my opiniion.
coin #2 did cross at VG08 and I was quite pleased with that. (Lists at $7000.00 in VG08)
coin #3 did not cross because of a scratch? Yes there was a very thin hairline microscopic scratch that SEGS as well as myself had missed. Unless you tilt the coin the right way it is almost invisible, but I had to agree with pcgs on that one.
coin # 4 did cross at the same grade and that was good. (Lists at $1150 in F15)

In the back of my mind I think I would have done better breaking them out. I think the "cleaned" 16 ddo would have slabbed if it had gone in rqw, but the one with the very light hairline scratch probaly would not have. (I think the graders see red when they are looking at a SEGS slab).

I will crack out the two that did not cross and send to ICG or NGC. I am leaning to ICG. I absolutely detest the new NGC holder!!

BUFFNIXX

Steve27 · November 24, 2008 8:54PM

"Is it better to crack out a coin before sending it for crossover?"

From my experience yes (two NGC "crossed" at the same grade and one ANACS went up two points).

BAJJERFAN · November 24, 2008 9:51PM

<< I always send the coin in the holder on the first attempt. Depending on the results, price point of the coin, and my grade, I may crack and resubmit. I've done pretty well over the years using this forumla. The key is the coin being very nice for the series/year. PCGS wants nice examples in their holders. >>

Then why is there so much ugly crap in their holders? Why not just return them ungraded?

Boom · November 24, 2008 10:05PM

I have done extremely well crossing coins over sent in slabs and even had 2 Major coins regrade higher sent in, in the PCGS slabs. Those 2 coins absolutely had me ecstatic. They were my biggest scores to date and I doubt they will be topped anytime soon!

They made me a loyal PCGS fan for Life!

krueger · November 25, 2008 4:24AM

I know a dealer who does part time grading for PCGS. When discussing this question with him (crossing N to P) without seeing any of the coins in question, he immediately said I would lose one point or more. I took that as he already has a bias against coins in "N" holders.
Its hard to fight the bias.

Krueger

MadMarty · November 25, 2008 4:28AM

<< I know a dealer who does part time grading for PCGS. When discussing this question with him (crossing N to P) without seeing any of the coins in question, he immediately said I would lose one point or more. I took that as he already has a bias against coins in "N" holders.
Its hard to fight the bias.

Krueger >>

If that were the case no one would ever have crossovers.

LeeG · November 25, 2008 9:10AM

<< Then why is there so much ugly crap in their holders? Why not just return them ungraded? >>

Theres ugly crap in all holders. On crossovers, customers have the option of grade at same or any. If any, more ugly coins.

TwoSides2aCoin · November 25, 2008 9:16AM

Technically, it isn't considered a "crossover" if it's cracked out. It's just a submission. You would have to leave it in the plastic in order to call it a crossover, I think.

blu62vette · November 25, 2008 9:20AM

<< I have a '23-S MS65 Peace dollar in an NGC slab. Maybe a $6500 coin.

I really want to add it to my PCGS registry set. But I couldn't bring myself to crack it out, particularly because of my firm belief that the white holder gives chills to PCGS graders.

It came back DNC. <sigh>

At least I have a shot at selling it at auction for something close to its value. If I'd cracked it out and it came back MS64 it'd be worth around $370.

Did I make the right call? >>

Yes you did and I venture to guess you will try again with it....

Unknown · November 25, 2008 9:23AM

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garsmith · November 25, 2008 9:51AM

<< Is it better to crack out a coin before sending it for crossover? >>

Crack kills

golfer72 · November 25, 2008 8:03PM

" have done extremely well crossing coins over sent in slabs and even had 2 Major coins regrade higher sent in, in the PCGS slabs" So much for consistency!!

golfer72 · November 25, 2008 8:08PM

I am confused. You send in a slabbed coin (NGC) and say only cross at the same grade or higher. PCGS cracks it and then sees significant rim problems that were not seen in the slab. Now what do they do. Ignore the rim issues since they already determined to cross it when they cracked it?

Nic · November 25, 2008 8:18PM

I think it's better to crack them first.

K

7over8 · November 25, 2008 8:20PM

IMO, I believe cracking is best.

Individual decision though.......

Is it better to crack out a coin before sending it for crossover?

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