<< <i>I've always said the Chinese counterfeit slab threat is the biggest threat the TGP's are or have ever faced. The counterfeiters are getting to good and it's getting hard for Joe Bloggs in the street to tell them apart. This could ultimately bring the TGP's crashing down.
I personally like the new idea of the "Genuine" holders by PCGS, but just think when the Chinese counterfeiters start putting fake coins into "Genuine" holders! the colour of the coin might look wrong, it will be hard to examine the coin in the holder and most might think the coin doesn't look right because it's been cleaned etc.., but it is in a "Genuine" holder so it is probably OK. >>
<< <i>Do the genuine holders have a unique serial and bar code? >>
One would think so. Each coin on a submission slip gets a sequential serial number. BBs occupy them already and would seamlessly carry to the genuine holder. Would be worth trying a cert lookup for one out there already to see what it gives.
This is very disturbing. I can't tell the difference between the two. As for the bar code issue, my guess is that diagnostic difference won't last long.
Salute the automobile: The greatest anti-pollution device in human history! (Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
The reason I spotted the coin is because it was an ugly POS. I know Lafayette Dollars are not often attractive, but this one was even worse than average. I then noticed that the font on the PCGS Label is wrong. Then the seller is not in the USA. All of this adds up to a big warning sign.
<< <i>This is very disturbing. I can't tell the difference between the two. As for the bar code issue, my guess is that diagnostic difference won't last long. >>
There is an ironic catch-22 in threads such as this one...
While it is a more than good idea for folks to be educated...at the same time, unfortunately, the counterfeiters get educated along with all of us...
We had a thread such as this one earlier this year IIRC... back to the drawing board they went... now they are a bit better... now, if they read this thread (and it would be naive to think they do not) the pics with informative arrows and words, have let them know what they still need to work on...back to the drawing board and what will they create in the near future...
I can think of no answer to this growing threat to our hobby (and the business that is part and parcel to it)... it is a true dilemma...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
Also note that the fake slab lacks the extra concentric circle in the plastic around the coin that you can see on the genuine slab. The weight of the paper used in the insert is such that you can see a hint of the circular hologram showing through on the genuine insert, but not on the fake.
What makes you think eBay should be pulling the auction? Remember: opinions here do not constitute PROOF. The coin is in what appears to be a real PCGS slab (as far as anyone at eBay is ever going to be able to tell).
eBay is probably not going to risk alienating a seller based on outside opinions that fly in the face of the pictoral evidence. No one at eBay is going to split hairs over typefaces and holder seams; they're simply not that knowledgeable. They will look at that listing and see a PCGS slab. Case closed.
PCGS is the party that needs to contact eBay in order for the auction to be pulled. A zillion random reports from nobodies doesn't amount to SQUAT when the seller has the required pictures of what, to all outward appearances, is a REAL PCGS slab.
I can't say buying from a seller outside the US is a bad idea. I got an extremely good deal on a Bust quarter once from someone in South Africa just because of this very paranoia.
<< <i>Now just wait until PR69 and MS69 modern crap ..... >>
They seem to be more interested in their counterfeit industry. Modern bullion and commemorative coins need to be worked in basicly a clean room. They don't have that. Also, on their counterfeits, they have almost no money tied up just labor. The would have to buy 69s for your scheme which can be quite a bit of money with PMs where they are. You might consider editing out your post lest you give some Onshore criminal a new idea for a business plan. --Jerry >>
They aren't turning 69's into 70's but they are supposedly counterfeiting gold bullion including gold eagles, with tunstun cores. All this counterfeiting can only get worse >>
I've personally seen and held fake Chinese bullion coins, in fake PCGS and NGC slabs, all graded PF/MS 69 and 70. I've seen them both in China and the US, and they are good enough to fool many newbies and bullion buyers. They had the US plat, gold, silver and British Brits, Aussie Kooks and Chinese gold and silver Pandas, and Canadian Maple Leafs.
<< <i>The reason I spotted the coin is because it was an ugly POS. I know Lafayette Dollars are not often attractive, but this one was even worse than average. I then noticed that the font on the PCGS Label is wrong. Then the seller is not in the USA. All of this adds up to a big warning sign.
-Paul >>
This particular counterfeiter likes to "antique" the coins, and his AT technique stinks. Fortunately. TD
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
"They will look at that listing and see a PCGS slab. Case closed.
PCGS is the party that needs to contact eBay in order for the auction to be pulled. A zillion random reports from nobodies doesn't amount to SQUAT when the seller has the required pictures of what, to all outward appearances, is a REAL PCGS slab. "
IT'S NOT A REAL pcgs SLAB - unless you be blind ......... ebay pulled the auction
<< <i>.i gotta think if ebay is informed the item is fake and they do nothing ; then they are accomplices to fraud and could be criminally charged - hopefully by the legal team @ PCGS . >>
How does ebay know it is fake? If has a legitimate looking slab to them. They don't have experts. They can't believe every report they get as they do get many bogus reports. That is why PCGS needs to contact them. --Jerry >>
I gave them the link to the real one Now they know
Coinborg: Your distinctive coins will be added to my collection. BS&T : kryptonitecomics, PCcoins (2x), Spoon (7x), Coppercolor, Preussen (2x), Filamcoins, agentjim007, CB2597, DCW, 1960NYGiants Ebay: + <waitin'> NEG: Chameleoncoins NonBST/Ebay: Rick's Coins WTB: Toners, BU Darkside, Sovs & 20 Mark, LMU/SMU Gold.
<< <i>Just a bump to let people know that eBay nuked the auction. >>
One down, a million to go.
Although we focus here (naturally) on coins, eBay is so flooded with fake stuff that it's going to have to be more agressive, or simply run out of customers. And that's a day I long for.
Good deals with: goldman86 mkman123 Wingsrule wondercoin segoja Tccuga OKCC LindeDad and others.
Comments
<< <i>I've always said the Chinese counterfeit slab threat is the biggest threat the TGP's are or have ever faced.
The counterfeiters are getting to good and it's getting hard for Joe Bloggs in the street to tell them apart. This could ultimately bring the TGP's crashing down.
I personally like the new idea of the "Genuine" holders by PCGS, but just think when the Chinese counterfeiters start putting fake coins into "Genuine" holders! the colour of the coin might look wrong, it will be hard to examine the coin in the holder and most might think the coin doesn't look right because it's been cleaned etc.., but it is in a "Genuine" holder so it is probably OK. >>
Good point. Trade dollars would be a big problem.
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ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>Do the genuine holders have a unique serial and bar code? >>
One would think so. Each coin on a submission slip gets a sequential serial number. BBs occupy them already and would seamlessly carry to the genuine holder. Would be worth trying a cert lookup for one out there already to see what it gives.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
(Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
-Paul
<< <i>This is very disturbing. I can't tell the difference between the two. As for the bar code issue, my guess is that diagnostic difference won't last long. >>
There is an ironic catch-22 in threads such as this one...
While it is a more than good idea for folks to be educated...at the same time, unfortunately, the counterfeiters get educated along with all of us...
We had a thread such as this one earlier this year IIRC... back to the drawing board they went... now they are a bit better... now, if they read this thread (and it would be naive to think they do not) the pics with informative arrows and words, have let them know what they still need to work on...back to the drawing board and what will they create in the near future...
I can think of no answer to this growing threat to our hobby (and the business that is part and parcel to it)... it is a true dilemma...
Text
The Russian gold coin shown would be worth several tens of thousands if genuine.
Denga
<< <i>eBay is so slow to pull auctions
What makes you think eBay should be pulling the auction? Remember: opinions here do not constitute PROOF. The coin is in what appears to be a real PCGS slab (as far as anyone at eBay is ever going to be able to tell).
eBay is probably not going to risk alienating a seller based on outside opinions that fly in the face of the pictoral evidence. No one at eBay is going to split hairs over typefaces and holder seams; they're simply not that knowledgeable. They will look at that listing and see a PCGS slab. Case closed.
PCGS is the party that needs to contact eBay in order for the auction to be pulled. A zillion random reports from nobodies doesn't amount to SQUAT when the seller has the required pictures of what, to all outward appearances, is a REAL PCGS slab.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Now just wait until PR69 and MS69 modern crap ..... >>
They seem to be more interested in their counterfeit industry. Modern bullion and commemorative coins need to be worked in basicly a clean room. They don't have that. Also, on their counterfeits, they have almost no money tied up just labor. The would have to buy 69s for your scheme which can be quite a bit of money with PMs where they are. You might consider editing out your post lest you give some Onshore criminal a new idea for a business plan. --Jerry >>
They aren't turning 69's into 70's but they are supposedly counterfeiting gold bullion including gold eagles, with tunstun cores. All this counterfeiting can only get worse >>
I've personally seen and held fake Chinese bullion coins, in fake PCGS and NGC slabs, all graded PF/MS 69 and 70. I've seen them both in China and the US, and they are good enough to fool many newbies and bullion buyers. They had the US plat, gold, silver and British Brits, Aussie Kooks and Chinese gold and silver Pandas, and Canadian Maple Leafs.
<< <i>The reason I spotted the coin is because it was an ugly POS. I know Lafayette Dollars are not often attractive, but this one was even worse than average. I then noticed that the font on the PCGS Label is wrong. Then the seller is not in the USA. All of this adds up to a big warning sign.
-Paul >>
This particular counterfeiter likes to "antique" the coins, and his AT technique stinks.
Fortunately.
TD
PCGS is the party that needs to contact eBay in order for the auction to be pulled. A zillion random reports from nobodies doesn't amount to SQUAT when the seller has the required pictures of what, to all outward appearances, is a REAL PCGS slab. "
IT'S NOT A REAL pcgs SLAB - unless you be blind ......... ebay pulled the auction
-Paul
<< <i>
<< <i>.i gotta think if ebay is informed the item is fake and they do nothing ; then they are accomplices to fraud and could be criminally charged - hopefully by the legal team @ PCGS . >>
How does ebay know it is fake? If has a legitimate looking slab to them. They don't have experts. They can't believe every report they get as they do get many bogus reports. That is why PCGS needs to contact them. --Jerry >>
I gave them the link to the real one
BS&T
Ebay: + <waitin'> NEG: Chameleoncoins
NonBST/Ebay:
WTB: Toners, BU Darkside, Sovs & 20 Mark, LMU/SMU Gold.
<< <i>Just a bump to let people know that eBay nuked the auction. >>
One down, a million to go.
Although we focus here (naturally) on coins, eBay is so flooded with fake stuff that it's going to have to be more agressive, or simply run out of customers. And that's a day I long for.
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/