1973 topps wax box

swartz1 · November 15, 2008 5:12AM

Looking for some help from experienced buyers/people knowing the wax...

1973 box

First...Do the packs look legit?

Second...How do you determine the series?

Thanks for any help!

44Magnum · November 15, 2008 5:28AM

Packs are totally legit. I have dealt with this seller a few times on unopened stuff and have always been completely satisfied.
No way to know the series unless you can see one of the cards through the packs.

stevek · November 15, 2008 5:29AM

Yea, but why no pics of the back of the packs?

44Magnum · November 15, 2008 5:35AM

<< Yea, but why no pics of the back of the packs? >>

You don't need to see the backs of the packs. What is that going to tell you? Simply look at the corner folds. Re-sealers can't perfect corner folds like that!

proofer2 · November 15, 2008 5:40AM

I agree with 44 magnum. I've seen several bogus packs throughout the years and generally, one big tip-off is the corner folds. Also there tends to be "puffiness" to the front of packs that are resealed.

stevek · November 15, 2008 5:41AM

<< 

<< Yea, but why no pics of the back of the packs? >>

You don't need to see the backs of the packs. What is that going to tell you? Simply look at the corner folds. Re-sealers can't perfect corner folds like that! >>

Okay, but still he "should" have pics of the back of the backs - I looked at a few of his other auctions for vintage wax and he's got pics of the backs...makes no sense not to because if I'm buying an unopened pack, I need to see the folds on the back of the packs, even if as you say the corner folds are more important.

Estil · November 15, 2008 5:52AM

<< 

<< Yea, but why no pics of the back of the packs? >>

You don't need to see the backs of the packs. What is that going to tell you? Simply look at the corner folds. Re-sealers can't perfect corner folds like that! >>

That would explain why Mark Murphy's book on unopened material says that's the first thing to look for in packs. If that's true, then all my wax packs should be in good shape.

summerof68 · November 15, 2008 9:17AM

I agree with Stevek. If I was the seller of this expensive box I would do everything to help calm any suspicions serious buyers might have. First and foremost I would at least show a group picture containing 4 or 6 reverses. It only cost .15 more to give potential buyers some extra confidence on such a high-end item.
Bottom line if your going to list a $2000+ vintage box then why not spend an extra buck and give buyers a real good look at the paks...the effort will pay much bigger dividends in the end (unless the seller has something to hide).

Griffins · November 15, 2008 9:29AM

I've seen some great reseal jobs that had perfect corners. Just looking at those can give a false sense of security.

tennesseebanker · November 15, 2008 9:39AM

Why dont you just ask the dude for a scan of the back of the packs ??

gumbyfan · November 15, 2008 9:44AM

<< Yea, but why no pics of the back of the packs? >>

Never question vintagetoppsguy.

Edited to add: Oops...I mean 44Magnum. It's the same guy, I just got confused with his multiple user IDs.

WinPitcher · November 15, 2008 9:47AM

lol

Yeah I agree, if the lack of a reverse scan bothers you simply ask for one.

I for one would not buy any packs without seeing it.

Steve

grote15 · November 15, 2008 11:57AM

It's very difficult to tell from a scan if packs are legit or not, even if the reverse is pictured, though it would certainly make sense for the seller to do so for a raw box with value like this one.

That said, this seller is a reputable buyer and seller of unopened product, so the odds are better than usual with this box. Still, I am always wary unless I know the origin of the box.

The fact that is unable to determine the series by looking at the packs is also a little unusual, too.

swartz1 · November 15, 2008 12:05PM

Thanks for the info Grote...I have recently finsihed my 73 set and thought this would be a nice addition/presentation along with it...

I too was concerned that the seller was unsure of the series...because wouldnt the last series command/demand higher prices than the earlier series?...wouldnt you want to open one pack to find out what the series was/is? (hypothetical) thanks again for the info so far...I am learning with the older wax...

proofer2 · November 15, 2008 12:37PM

You know, take a look at the pic with the stack of packs. Those corners look pretty uniform to me. That would take someone alot time and tedious skill to do that to at least 12 of the packs.

grote15 · November 15, 2008 1:09PM

I too was concerned that the seller was unsure of the series...because wouldnt the last series command/demand higher prices than the earlier series?

Yes, a series 5, or Schmidt RC series box would definitely command a HUGE premium over say, a series 4 box. Topps did produce "all series" packs late in 1973, as 1974 marked the first year that Topps switched to the all series format for good, but those packs normally bear a wrapper advertising that fact.

Edit: Seller did state that series is unknown on this box, though I'd assume that at least a few packs would show a player through the wrapper to determine that fact.

stevek · November 15, 2008 1:11PM

Good info from the knowledgable unopened pack collectors here of which I am not one of those, as I only buy unopened packs to rip.

I've also seen a number of times on ebay whereby a seller of an expensive card doesn't have a scan of the back of the card and it always amazed me why they wouldn't? A potential buyer shouldn't have to "ask" for a scan of the back - it should already be there, and every auction I've ever had on ebay, except if it's a large lot of common cards, I include a clear, large scan of the back.

Once bitten twice shy - One of the first graded cards I bought on ebay some years ago was a PSA 9 1961 Gil Hodges, that had no scan of the back and I just assumed it was fine - Well I don't think I've ever been so po'd about buying something in my life as I receive the card and the front is fine, but the back had about a dime size ink smear in the center of the stats actually making some of the stats unreadable. The back of the card is just about as important to me as the front. I guess I should have returned the card but I didn't, and I put the card on ebay about a week later, showing a scan of the back and pointing out the flaw, and lost about 1/2 the price I paid. Bottom line - if a seller doesn't want to show a scan of the back - Me No Buy...Period.

stevek · November 15, 2008 1:16PM

<< I too was concerned that the seller was unsure of the series...because wouldnt the last series command/demand higher prices than the earlier series?

Yes, a series 5, or Schmidt RC series box would definitely command a HUGE premium over say, a series 4 box. Topps did produce "all series" packs late in 1973, as 1974 marked the first year that Topps switched to the all series format for good, but those packs normally bear a wrapper advertising that fact. The fact that he says all cards, from series 1 through 5, are possible from this box woul.d indicate to me that this box is either a compilation of packs from different series/boxes put together to make a single box, or that he is not aware of what series the box is from. In any case, he ought to address that aspect in his listing, IMO. >>

Just my brief opinion, and it's just an opinion...is that this seller IS aware of what you stated, and frankly, categorizing this auction in this manner would make me classify him as a "weasel" on this auction...intentionally misrepresenting facts he knows in order to achieve the maximum price on the auction. Another weasel unopened pack auction from a dealer on ebay...what else is new?

grote15 · November 15, 2008 1:21PM

If you're going to list Schmidt as a possibility from this box, you ought to be sure that is actually a possibility, IMO. Wrappers on 1973 packs are fairly thin and the cards are usually face up on the back so at least a few packs ought to reveal who is showing to determine the series. JMHO.

packCollector · November 15, 2008 2:52PM

<< Another weasel unopened pack auction from a dealer on ebay...what else is new? >>

pretty general statement, one of the reasons I have little respect for you. sure there is scum out there but they are so blattenly obvious and to group them with all legit sellers is pathetic imo, maybe when I look at an auction of some trimmed cards , I should generalize all card sellers as weasels and put them in the same class

as for this auction , I know the seller as well and met up with him to pick up the items I have won. I don't doubt the authenticity of the packs, if you are bidding and really want a scan of the back, then ask and I am sure he will send you one. as for the series , I doubt it can not be determined unless all of the back cards are face down on the back as it is extremely tough from the back of the card ,if they are face up , it is relatively easy.

stevek · November 15, 2008 3:38PM

<< 

<< Another weasel unopened pack auction from a dealer on ebay...what else is new? >>

pretty general statement, one of the reasons I have little respect for you. sure there is scum out there but they are so blattenly obvious and to group them with all legit sellers is pathetic imo, maybe when I look at an auction of some trimmed cards , I should generalize all card sellers as weasels and put them in the same class

as for this auction , I know the seller as well and met up with him to pick up the items I have won. I don't doubt the authenticity of the packs, if you are bidding and really want a scan of the back, then ask and I am sure he will send you one. as for the series , I doubt it can not be determined unless all of the back cards are face down on the back as it is extremely tough from the back of the card ,if they are face up , it is relatively easy. >>

A weasel is a weasel...just a question of degree.

How am I rated on your "respect meter" now. Up or down?

corvette1340 · November 15, 2008 9:34PM

Im gonna buy this box and rip the sh*t out of it.

fattymacs · November 15, 2008 10:23PM

<< Im gonna buy this box and rip the sh*t out of it. >>

Don't tease like that, a few of us will grab our rakes and torches and show up at your house until we see some rippage.

IJustLoveCards · November 15, 2008 10:40PM

I am not going to say anything either way, but I remember quite a few people who doubted the legitimacy of a certain unopened 75 topps rack case.
How did that work out?

Griffins · November 16, 2008 12:29AM

And doubted a '64 Standup box.

jmoran19 · November 16, 2008 1:25AM

I'm not sure but didn't the 5th series wax packs mostly include the catcher wax varation?

packCollector · November 16, 2008 3:34AM

<< And doubted a '64 Standup box. >>

and doubted the last bunch of 64 stand up packs

stevek · November 16, 2008 4:00AM

<< 

<< And doubted a '64 Standup box. >>

and doubted the last bunch of 64 stand up packs >>

Why don't you elaborate on this further, genius? My basic premise was that the cards inside those packs are of little value because of wax and gum stains - What part of that should be "doubted" Mr. Einstein?

Estil · November 16, 2008 4:39AM

<< 
Once bitten twice shy - One of the first graded cards I bought on ebay some years ago was a PSA 9 1961 Gil Hodges, that had no scan of the back and I just assumed it was fine - Well I don't think I've ever been so po'd about buying something in my life as I receive the card and the front is fine, but the back had about a dime size ink smear in the center of the stats actually making some of the stats unreadable. The back of the card is just about as important to me as the front. >>

And I thought I was the only "old fashioned" collector in that regard. Whatever happened to the good ol' days of a MINT card being a completely flawless card? I'm guessing your PSA 9 didn't have a "MK" qualifier, right?

packCollector · November 16, 2008 4:59AM

and our premise is that it doesn't matter and hopefully you will eventually shut your trap as there are many that are sick of you and your bull $hit. you don't like wax , good for you. so why don't you keep your mouth shut and stop posting on every wax thread and derailing the discussion. keep collecting your new kids on the block cards and leave the rest of us alone.

stevek · November 16, 2008 5:01AM

<< 

<< 
Once bitten twice shy - One of the first graded cards I bought on ebay some years ago was a PSA 9 1961 Gil Hodges, that had no scan of the back and I just assumed it was fine - Well I don't think I've ever been so po'd about buying something in my life as I receive the card and the front is fine, but the back had about a dime size ink smear in the center of the stats actually making some of the stats unreadable. The back of the card is just about as important to me as the front. >>

And I thought I was the only "old fashioned" collector in that regard. Whatever happened to the good ol' days of a MINT card being a completely flawless card? I'm guessing your PSA 9 didn't have a "MK" qualifier, right? >>

Yes, you're right. The sad part is the front centering was beautiful and the corners were rock solid 9 corners, and the back centering was perfect - Obviously "they" didn't look at the center of the back of the card.

stevek · November 16, 2008 5:10AM

<< and our premise is that it doesn't matter and hopefully you will eventually shut your trap as there are many that are sick of you and your bull $hit. you don't like wax , good for you. so why don't you keep your mouth shut and stop posting on every wax thread and derailing the discussion. keep collecting your new kids on the block cards and leave the rest of us alone. >>

My My - what a temper tantrum. They've got medicine for that now - you oughta look into getting a prescription.

A fellow Phillies fan Swartz1 asked the question "First...Do the packs look legit?" and my answers pondered that further and expanded on it a little bit. You're the one "derailing" the discussion with your childish antics. Grow up already and relax - You're gonna give yourself a heart attack...get yourself some medicine.

stevek · November 16, 2008 5:33AM

<< 

<< and our premise is that it doesn't matter and hopefully you will eventually shut your trap as there are many that are sick of you and your bull $hit. you don't like wax , good for you. so why don't you keep your mouth shut and stop posting on every wax thread and derailing the discussion. keep collecting your new kids on the block cards and leave the rest of us alone. >>

My My - what a temper tantrum. They've got medicine for that now - you oughta look into getting a prescription.

A fellow Phillies fan Swartz1 asked the question "First...Do the packs look legit?" and my answers pondered that further and expanded on it a little bit. You're the one "derailing" the discussion with your childish antics. Grow up already and relax - You're gonna give yourself a heart attack...get yourself some medicine. >>

Here's an example of what I was talking about - This seller who seems to have a nice reputation with excellent 100% feedback, but no back scan on a card of which he's asking $4,500? That doesn't make sense to me but I guess it does to you. In any event, I'll never bid on a sale or auction like this - that's my prerogative, right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1969-Topps-John-HAVLICEK-10-Rookie-CELTICS-PSA-9-MINT_W0QQitemZ160293496000QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_Sports_Cards?hash=item160293496000&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

packCollector · November 16, 2008 11:24AM

<< Here's an example of what I was talking about - This seller who seems to have a nice reputation with excellent 100% feedback, but no back scan on a card of which he's asking $4,500? That doesn't make sense to me but I guess it does to you. In any event, I'll never bid on a sale or auction like this - that's my prerogative, right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1969-Topps-John-HAVLICEK-10-Rookie-CELTICS-PSA-9-MINT_W0QQitemZ160293496000QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_Sports_Cards?hash=item160293496000&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:1|39:1|240:1318
>>

the reality is I sell many cards of this caliber without any scans on an email or a phone call, you want a scan ask for it and you will get it. you don't want to bid , your loss. My many repeat buyers know my character so I don't really need to prove anyything.

stevek · November 16, 2008 12:44PM

<< 

<< Here's an example of what I was talking about - This seller who seems to have a nice reputation with excellent 100% feedback, but no back scan on a card of which he's asking $4,500? That doesn't make sense to me but I guess it does to you. In any event, I'll never bid on a sale or auction like this - that's my prerogative, right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1969-Topps-John-HAVLICEK-10-Rookie-CELTICS-PSA-9-MINT_W0QQitemZ160293496000QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_Sports_Cards?hash=item160293496000&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:1|39:1|240:1318
>>

the reality is I sell many cards of this caliber without any scans on an email or a phone call, you want a scan ask for it and you will get it. you don't want to bid , your loss. My many repeat buyers know my character so I don't really need to prove anyything. >>

<<< so I don't really need to prove anyything >>>

You just received an F on your test. As a seller, businessman, or whatever you wish to call yourself, and I am one myself, we need to prove ourselves on each and every order, each and every time...you should remember that...and we are only as good as how we serviced our customer on their last order - that's the way I look at my business and I'd advise you to do the same.

And there's no doubt, and it's not even debatable, that if you are an honest seller, and it appears that you are an honest seller and not a weasel, that you could only do better and there's no way you could possibly do worse in realizing the maximum sales price, by showing a scan of the back of the card - You're likely costing yourself money but perhaps you correctly figure that since PokerStars or FullTilt is gonna eventually get your money anyway, or you fantasize that one day you'll be an online poker playing stud, so good at online poker that you'll basically enjoy a license to print money...that I guess you're not too worried about making some extra money off your ebay sales.

StopYurWhining · November 16, 2008 12:51PM

well, this has devolved into a cawk fight lol.

1973 topps wax box

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