<< <i>wolf359, I have been a collectors club member for years. I have have spent a number of years submitting to PCGS and getting body bags just like you. I am an ANA member, President of one coinclub, VP of 2 more, GSNA Numismatist of the year 2007, and have been featured in the Numismatist in September. Ive had my grievances with PCGS about those body bags before, and now they are turning that around, and I appreciate that. >>
After the PCGS brand name crashes and burns to the ground, please remember what you said. >>
Wolf,
I think you're being naive about this whole thing. PCGS is now in crisis mode, not "we're here for collectors!" mode right now. If they and their parent company don't shore up their losses by doing something, bankruptcy is a looming option. This move is probably seen as "something" that may generate cash.
i'm sure they could really care less about any hurt feelings from the faithful on this move. >>
Puh-lease. Would you persue your vendetta elsewhere. Everyone has an opinion and I'm sure we all welcome critical viewpoints here on the U.S. Coin Forum but your criticism of our hosts is as relentless as it is mean spirited.
Anyone who thinks I'm off base is welcome to search this forum for user Doogy before commenting. >>
"Vendetta"?
tell me which of my comments are incorrect in this thread. I'm not criticizing them for making this move, I applaud it! If it helps their short term cash crunch problem and they stay viable, then everyone here should be for it.
The thing that leaves me scratching my head is that folks like you don't see these facts, and can accept that this is a business move and nothing more. I suggest you leave the coin forum and read their publicly available earnings statements; that should give you an idea of why things need to change.
As for the "critical"part; I would be critical if they DIDN'T do something like this to raise capital and appease shareholders.
I agree. I was a little frustrated when i got swiped at with the "I bet your not even a member" comment. PCGS has many bright minds and people who know what they are doing.
I would think that this would actually enhance and increase the value of a PCGS slab.
If net-graded coins upon evaluation are no longer graded and placed in a typical slab, but placed in a "genuine" slab; and if the cleaned coin standards are raised inline with a shift towards tougher overall grading standards as a philosophy, then the coin in the graded slab becomes that much more valuable.
While currently slabbed coins would not be immediately affected, over the course of time, the differentiation will meld with the thought that a rising tide raises all ships.
I would expect that NGC/NCS will follow suit to some degree and merge their policies for genuine slabbing. I hope they do.
Now, if PCGS were to come out with a next generation slab that coincided with the new standards, then I would think that a "rush" to re-holder would occur because the perception (for buyers) could be that the now "older" slabs might hold a coin with a higher percentage chance of being a lesser standard coin. Similar effect in reverse in how many earlier generation slabs have been perceived.
Probably a smart move as the market is evolving and they are being pro-active.
Battles are won and battles are lost...it is who wins the war. The 2nd Protects the 1st.
It's a good move to make in their current financial condition. Better than having them go under for a while. Plus there are plenty of neat problem coins that need a coffin and quit being submission recycled.
LOL a sad day for the die hard pcgs boys. Cheapens the name and no longer puts them on top.
For what they charge to put a coin into plastic i can not see how they could even be close to bankrupt. Poor management. They took a step in the right direction a few weeks ago.
It is a sad sad day!!!
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Stupid question: Is PCGS going to be only putting the word "Genuine" on the slab (in addition to the denomination and date of course), or will they also be giving an indication as to WHY the coin is in said slab (cleaned, damaged, tooled, altered surfaces, whizzed, artificially toned, etc.)?
With NCS, ANACS, and ICG, they at least tell you the problems of the coin, but every PCGS Genuine slab has only that indicator, nothing else.
I personally like the idea of PCGS slabbing problem coins for authenticity purposes, but only if they also say why it's not in a problem-free holder...
All I know is everytime I see a Genuine Slab on Ebay, that will be one less LQQK, ESTATE raw coin being sold as problem free. How many of the raw BU coins on ebay got BB'd at PCGS and sold on there?
If a market develops and it stops some of the crap on ebay, more power to it.
I, like Wolf, will only be submitting coins that I feel should slab and the ones that do get the new Genuine will be cracked out and resubmitted at some point. But this may generate some revenue for those slider coins everyone has been wanting to take the chance on.
Comments
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<< <i>wolf359,
I have been a collectors club member for years. I have have spent a number of years submitting to PCGS and getting body bags just like you. I am an ANA member, President of one coinclub, VP of 2 more, GSNA Numismatist of the year 2007, and have been featured in the Numismatist in September. Ive had my grievances with PCGS about those body bags before, and now they are turning that around, and I appreciate that. >>
After the PCGS brand name crashes and burns to the ground, please remember what you said. >>
Wolf,
I think you're being naive about this whole thing. PCGS is now in crisis mode, not "we're here for collectors!" mode right now. If they and their parent company don't shore up their losses by doing something, bankruptcy is a looming option. This move is probably seen as "something" that may generate cash.
i'm sure they could really care less about any hurt feelings from the faithful on this move. >>
Puh-lease.
Would you persue your vendetta elsewhere.
Everyone has an opinion and I'm sure we all welcome critical viewpoints here on the U.S. Coin Forum but your criticism
of our hosts is as relentless as it is mean spirited.
Anyone who thinks I'm off base is welcome to search this forum for user Doogy before commenting. >>
"Vendetta"?
tell me which of my comments are incorrect in this thread. I'm not criticizing them for making this move, I applaud it! If it helps their short term cash crunch problem and they stay viable, then everyone here should be for it.
The thing that leaves me scratching my head is that folks like you don't see these facts, and can accept that this is a business move and nothing more. I suggest you leave the coin forum and read their publicly available earnings statements; that should give you an idea of why things need to change.
As for the "critical"part; I would be critical if they DIDN'T do something like this to raise capital and appease shareholders.
If net-graded coins upon evaluation are no longer graded and placed in a typical slab, but placed in a "genuine" slab; and if the cleaned coin standards are raised inline with a shift towards tougher overall grading standards as a philosophy, then the coin in the graded slab becomes that much more valuable.
While currently slabbed coins would not be immediately affected, over the course of time, the differentiation will meld with the thought that a rising tide raises all ships.
I would expect that NGC/NCS will follow suit to some degree and merge their policies for genuine slabbing. I hope they do.
Now, if PCGS were to come out with a next generation slab that coincided with the new standards, then I would think that a "rush" to re-holder would occur because the perception (for buyers) could be that the now "older" slabs might hold a coin with a higher percentage chance of being a lesser standard coin. Similar effect in reverse in how many earlier generation slabs have been perceived.
Probably a smart move as the market is evolving and they are being pro-active.
Lafayette Grading Set
For what they charge to put a coin into plastic i can not see how they could even be close to bankrupt. Poor management. They took a step in the right direction a few weeks ago.
It is a sad sad day!!!
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
With NCS, ANACS, and ICG, they at least tell you the problems of the coin, but every PCGS Genuine slab has only that indicator, nothing else.
I personally like the idea of PCGS slabbing problem coins for authenticity purposes, but only if they also say why it's not in a problem-free holder...
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
If a market develops and it stops some of the crap on ebay, more power to it.
I, like Wolf, will only be submitting coins that I feel should slab and the ones that do get the new Genuine will be cracked out and resubmitted at some point. But this may generate some revenue for those slider coins everyone has been wanting to take the chance on.