Coins a great investment?

RYK · October 20, 2008 3:55AM

Here's a random data point. The coin I bought on Friday night at the Scotsman Eliasberg sale for $1350 (hammer) sold in 1982 to the consignor for $936. The annualized return for that spread, to the owner, was 1.7%. Not exactly anything to write home about.

STONE · October 20, 2008 3:55AM

tahoe98 · October 20, 2008 3:56AM

.....gotta go for the super duper rare jobs!!

RWB · October 20, 2008 4:01AM

...and , if the consignor had purchased it in 1987, he might have lost a few hundred percent.

Collect for the pleasure and history. “Invest” at your own risk.

rgCoinGuy · October 20, 2008 4:03AM

Don't forget, the market has already gone into an at least 20% correction, so you just bought on the down trend.

RYK · October 20, 2008 4:05AM

<< ...and , if the consignor had purchased it in 1987, he might have lost a few hundred percent.

Collect for the pleasure and history. “Invest” at your own risk. >>

100%

ColonialCoinUnion · October 20, 2008 4:12AM

"You have to love coins, not money, to make money in the coin market."
-- Harry Laibstain, January 2008

I read this quote in an Rosen's Numismatic Advisory and just thought I'd insert it here.

Dog97 · October 20, 2008 4:12AM

Yeah, us little guys don't make crap!!

FinallyHere · October 20, 2008 4:14AM

Well, Microsoft was approximately $26 or so a share in 87 or thereabouts, and today it's $24. And, you can't look at stock certificates and get a great deal of joy out of them. Perspective.

DennisH · October 20, 2008 4:15AM

Here's another random data point: I bought an MS61 PCGS Morgan in January 2008 for $207. I just sold it -- no VAM cherrypick, no upgrade, and no crossover involved -- for $300. That's a profit of 45% in just nine months.

What the market was like and what you paid originally has a lot to say about how the profit margin column turns out.

NHSBaseball · October 20, 2008 4:15AM

Man, I'm happy when I don't LOSE too much money when I sell a coin... much less turn a profit of any kind.

Barry · October 20, 2008 4:18AM

<< Well, Microsoft was approximately $26 or so a share in 87 or thereabouts, and today it's $24. And, you can't look at stock certificates and get a great deal of joy out of them. Perspective. >>

Is that adjusted for splits?

Barndog · October 20, 2008 4:19AM

I bought an XF half dime three years ago for $175 and sold it earlier this year for $2100. I'm not too good at math, but figure I did OK. Of course, I recently spent more than two thousand on an AU half dime

fc · October 20, 2008 4:20AM

is not the coin you bought quite common? as in a half eagle i remember you mentioning?

if yes, the price of 936 was for the name.. not the coin.
the new price of 1350 represents a possible crack out candidate
due to grade inflation and more interest in the pedigree.

basically the coin, without the history attached, has been overpriced
since it sold in 82. hard for it to get a good price increase when it
was expensive to begin with.

Eliasberg probably made out just fine though ;-)

Barndog · October 20, 2008 4:21AM

<< 

<< Well, Microsoft was approximately $26 or so a share in 87 or thereabouts, and today it's $24. And, you can't look at stock certificates and get a great deal of joy out of them. Perspective. >>

Is that adjusted for splits? >>

mmm, splits

FinallyHere · October 20, 2008 4:25AM

I knew you were going to ask that Barry - it's split 9 times over the past 20 years so my bad - it was not split adjusted. The original IPO was @ $21.

RYK · October 20, 2008 4:32AM

<< is not the coin you bought quite common? as in a half eagle i remember you mentioning?

if yes, the price of 936 was for the name.. not the coin.
the new price of 1350 represents a possible crack out candidate
due to grade inflation and more interest in the pedigree.

basically the coin, without the history attached, has been overpriced
since it sold in 82. hard for it to get a good price increase when it
was expensive to begin with.

Eliasberg probably made out just fine though ;-) >>

Actually, the coin has an unusual prooflike appearance and sold for a premium to other like coins in 1982 and did again in 2008. I paid multiples of retail for it. The name was the same in both auctions. I can give you many other similar examples later. Bottom line is that most coins are not great investments.

That said, I do remember a large cent that I bought for $20 for my boyhood collection that fetched $450 when I sold it several years ago. That's about an 82% annualized return. I guess I should have bought more of those.

I do not buy coins for investment, and it's a good thing I don't.

TwoSides2aCoin · October 20, 2008 4:34AM

Coins~ a great hobby !
Purchase coins that have pizzazz, and Shazam !
Golly gee whiz , Sarge.

Barry · October 20, 2008 4:37AM

<< I knew you were going to ask that Barry - it's split 9 times over the past 20 years so my bad - it was not split adjusted. The original IPO was @ $21. >>

I knew something wasn't right, Mike. Bill Gates didn't get to where he did on the rich guy list with a flat stock...

CoinJunkie · October 20, 2008 5:29AM

<< "You have to love coins, not money, to make money in the coin market."
-- Harry Laibstain, January 2008

>>

So, if you love money and not coins, can you make love in a coin market?

RYK · October 20, 2008 5:31AM

<< 

<< "You have to love coins, not money, to make money in the coin market."
-- Harry Laibstain, January 2008

>>

So, if you love money and not coins, can you make love in a coin market?

>>

Very good!

Whitby · October 20, 2008 5:32AM

<< I knew you were going to ask that Barry - it's split 9 times over the past 20 years so my bad - it was not split adjusted. The original IPO was @ $21. >>

21??

In 1985, I recall 7.87?????

Anybody?

ambro51 · October 20, 2008 5:47AM

When I was a teenager (late 60's) , I collected bottles.

Generic open pontil little bottles were about 20$
Average Historical flasks were about 100-150

I went to a big bottle show a few weeks ago, and you guessed it.

Generic open pontil little bottles were about 20$
Average Historical flasks were about `100-150

For what its worth.......................

fc · October 20, 2008 5:47AM

<< 

<< is not the coin you bought quite common? as in a half eagle i remember you mentioning?

if yes, the price of 936 was for the name.. not the coin.
the new price of 1350 represents a possible crack out candidate
due to grade inflation and more interest in the pedigree.

basically the coin, without the history attached, has been overpriced
since it sold in 82. hard for it to get a good price increase when it
was expensive to begin with.

Eliasberg probably made out just fine though ;-) >>

Actually, the coin has an unusual prooflike appearance and sold for a premium to other like coins in 1982 and did again in 2008. I paid multiples of retail for it. The name was the same in both auctions. I can give you many other similar examples later. Bottom line is that most coins are not great investments.

That said, I do remember a large cent that I bought for $20 for my boyhood collection that fetched $450 when I sold it several years ago. That's about an 82% annualized return. I guess I should have bought more of those.

I do not buy coins for investment, and it's a good thing I don't.

>>

interesting. i just know high mintage half eagles... often some did
have a proof like appearance in that time range from P and S. Hammered
with lovely mirror like fields.

so this one has to be nice. any pics to share yet?

quickwing · October 20, 2008 5:50AM

<< Well, Microsoft was approximately $26 or so a share in 87 or thereabouts, and today it's $24. And, you can't look at stock certificates and get a great deal of joy out of them. Perspective. >>

Barry.
Split adjustment price in 87 would be about .35 to .45 CENTS!!!

Now thats "perspective"

WaterSport · October 20, 2008 5:50AM

Two things make me nervous, Collecting coins as an investment and owning a home as an investment. One is a hobby, the other is simply a roof over your head.

WS

Jcarney · October 20, 2008 5:51AM

<< Here's a random data point. The coin I bought on Friday night at the Scotsman Eliasberg sale for $1350 (hammer) sold in 1982 to the consignor for $936. The annualized return for that spread, to the owner, was 1.7%. Not exactly anything to write home about. >>

Better than my 401k this year.

LanLord · October 20, 2008 5:52AM

<< Two things make me nervous, Collecting coins as an investment and owning a home as an investment. One is a hobby, the other is simply a roof over your head.

WS >>

Really? A doberman parked near my crotch with teeth bared will do it for me!

Jcarney · October 20, 2008 5:52AM

<< ...and , if the consignor had purchased it in 1987, he might have lost a few hundred percent. >>

How would it be possible to lose more than 100%-face value?

Jcarney · October 20, 2008 5:57AM

<< Well, Microsoft was approximately $26 or so a share in 87 or thereabouts, and today it's $24. And, you can't look at stock certificates and get a great deal of joy out of them. Perspective. >>

Microsof has split 9 times since 1987, so it's not down $2 a share, but up many, many multiples.

Link

19Lyds · October 20, 2008 6:09AM

<< 

<< Well, Microsoft was approximately $26 or so a share in 87 or thereabouts, and today it's $24. And, you can't look at stock certificates and get a great deal of joy out of them. Perspective. >>

Is that adjusted for splits? >>

Excellent point!

I'd kinda like to have purchased 1000 shares at $26 per share and today have 4,000 or 8,000 at only $24 per share!

Swampboy · October 20, 2008 6:14AM

<< "You have to love coins, not money, to make money in the coin market."
-- Harry Laibstain, January 2008

I read this quote in an Rosen's Numismatic Advisory and just thought I'd insert it here. >>

Well inserted CCU. Worthy of its own post IMHO.

edit brain fade

Jcarney · October 20, 2008 6:17AM

<< 

<< 

<< Well, Microsoft was approximately $26 or so a share in 87 or thereabouts, and today it's $24. And, you can't look at stock certificates and get a great deal of joy out of them. Perspective. >>

Is that adjusted for splits? >>

Excellent point!

I'd kinda like to have purchased 1000 shares at $26 per share and today have 4,000 or 8,000 at only $24 per share!

>>

If you had bought 1000 shares of MSFT before the first split, you'd have 288,000 shares now worth $7,119,360. Not bad for an initial investment of $28k.

skeeterhawk · October 20, 2008 6:20AM

<< 

<< "You have to love coins, not money, to make money in the coin market."
-- Harry Laibstain, January 2008

>>

So, if you love money and not coins, can you make love in a coin market?

>>

Or there is an excellent chance that someone will "make love" to you!!!!!!!!!!

quickwing · October 20, 2008 6:25AM

<< I'd kinda like to have purchased 1000 shares at $26 per share and today have 4,000 or 8,000 at only $24 per share! >>

If you had purchased 1000 shares of MSFT on say 6/12/1987 you have paid $98,250.00 plus juice.
Today you would have 288,000 shares worth about $7,119,360. And that's AFTER over a 60% price decline from the late 1999 highs!!!

Edit:Carney was posting while I was computing

CoinJunkie · October 20, 2008 6:44AM

<< 

<< 

<< "You have to love coins, not money, to make money in the coin market."
-- Harry Laibstain, January 2008

>>

So, if you love money and not coins, can you make love in a coin market?

>>

Or there is an excellent chance that someone will "make love" to you!!!!!!!!!!

>>

All joking aside, I think there's a lot of truth and wisdom in Laibstain's quote. Thank
you to CRO for posting.

Jcarney · October 20, 2008 6:47AM

<< 

<< I'd kinda like to have purchased 1000 shares at $26 per share and today have 4,000 or 8,000 at only $24 per share! >>

If you had purchased 1000 shares of MSFT on say 6/12/1987 you have paid $98,250.00 plus juice.
Today you would have 288,000 shares worth about $7,119,360. And that's AFTER over a 60% price decline from the late 1999 highs!!!

Edit:Carney was posting while I was computing

>>

Good point.

FWIW, a friend of mine bought MSFT at the IPO. He tried talking me into buying it also. I can still remember him saying borrow the money or steal it, but buy this stock. Shoulda listened.

JJM · October 20, 2008 6:56AM

I wouldnt loose sleep over it, at least you can play with it................

Unknown · October 20, 2008 7:26AM

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Goldbully · October 20, 2008 7:30AM

Interesting Chart....................................

The value of the Salomon charts derives from the fact that old Salomon Brothers information sheets knew nothing of these expansion plans, yet is flexible enough to be usable in 2008, even if the data harvesting began in earnest after 1978.

Coins on the list include:

1. 1794 Liberty cap half cent, extremely fine
2. 1873 2-cent piece, brilliant proof
3. 1866 5 cent nickel with rays, brilliant proof
4. 1862 3-cent silver, B.U.
5. 1862 half dime, B.U.
6. 1807 Draped Bust dime, B.U.
7. 1866 Seated Liberty dime, B.U.
8. 1876 20 cents, B.U.
9. 1873 arrows quarter, B.U.
10. 1886 Seated quarter, B.U.
11. 1916 quarter, B.U.
12. 1815 Bust half, uncirculated
13. 1834 Bust half, B.U.
14. 1855-O Seated half, B.U.
15. 1921 Walking Liberty half, B.U.
16. 1795 Draped Bust dollar, B.U.
17. 1847 Seated dollar, B.U.
18. 1884-S Morgan dollar B.U.
19. 1881 Trade dollar proof
20. 1928 Hawaiian commemorative half dollar

The contents of the portfolio was never revealed by Salomon but was revealed in a book by Hans M.F. Schulman and Neil S. Berman in 1986. Coin & Currency Institute published a new analysis by Berman and Silvano DiGenova in 2007.

Baker's October 2008 price changes show that this year, up $13,380 for year to date and about $2,500 for the past quarter.

Salomon created an investment analysis model using a small number of just 20 silver and copper coins, some Proof-63 but mostly choice uncirculated specimens. (No gold was included because investment was too new - not until December 31, 1974, was private gold ownership permitted in the U.S. after a shut-down of more than 40 years.

Surprising results when 20 coins were factored into a portfolio: it outpaced the equities market. Using the same 1976 starting point, it would have cost about $33,000 to assemble a holding of each of the coins. The following year, 1977, showed a 5.61 percent gain. Not rocket gains, but when measured against a flat market, impressive. The following year, a 4.17 percent gain and in 1979, the portfolio acquisition cost jumped to $43,000 and a gain of more than 19 percent.

Numismaster Link

Coins a great investment?

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