If you collect by Sheldon, Overton, etc...

MrEureka · October 20, 2008 2:46AM

Would you have the patience and determination to pursue the same collection if the references didn't exist and you had to figure it all out for yourself? Do you think that you would enjoy it?

jdillane · October 20, 2008 2:49AM

Probably not. I am very grateful for the efforts of those who did perservere!

RWB · October 20, 2008 2:52AM

Both writers (and others in the past) benefited from having a large number of specimens available for study. This gave them the "big picture" view that could then be broken down into individual varieties and given structure. Few have those circumstances now.

DNADave · October 20, 2008 2:57AM

I like being able to stand on the shoulders of others. It seems new ground is awful hard to find now-a-days....but it's out there, just more and more obscure and focused on minutia.

CoinKing · October 20, 2008 2:58AM

Andy,

That's a great question.

Years ago, I collected Bavarian Madonna Thalers (mid to late 1800's) by die variety. It was (and still is) an inexpensive way to collect the equivalents of U.S. Bust Dollars by die variety. There were (are) no references and I figured there would only be a couple of varieties for each year. Wrong! I ended up with over 300 different die varieties before I quit. I would buy lots of ten and twenty coins out of Europe, yet I would find very little duplication of varieties in spite of my "advanced" collection. I ended up selling the collection to Noe's Ohio coin fund via an auction...it was sold last year unattributed in a Stack's sale, where the collection was split up into small lots and eventually sold for far less that what I sold it for.

Did I have fun? - absolutely. Every new variety was a "cherry-pick." Did anyone besides me care? - probably not. Did I record the die varieties? - no. Do I regret not having done so? - yes, but publishing a book on the subject would have been a losing proposition. If I had it to do all over again, I'd publish the information on the Internet and maybe some other coin geek would get excited and begin collecting them.

BECOKA · October 20, 2008 3:33AM

I had started trying to identify varieties of the classic head half eagles until I found out John McCloskey had already done this. I now follow his findings and still look for new ones. If he did not already do this I guess I still would have moved forward but not to the same extent.

MrHalfDime · October 20, 2008 3:40AM

As much as I enjoy collecting the Bust half dimes by die marriage, and standing upon the shoulders of numismatic researchers and scholars Harold P. Newlin, Will W. Neil, Dr. Daniel W. Valentine, Jules Reiver, John McCloskey and Russell J. Logan, it has only been in recent years that we have had a truly comprehensive reference on that series, thanks to the last two names in that list. Prior to 1998, collecting and attributing Bust half dimes was a more difficult process, involving many different publications and even some guess work. However, for the Liberty Seated half dimes, despite the valliant efforts of Will Neil, Dr. Valentine, and more recently Al Blythe, we still do not have a comprehensive reference for that series. Thus, studying and collecting Liberty Seated half dimes by die marriage takes one into unchartered territory as often as not. Dr. Valentine's 1931 monograph "United States Half Dimes" remains the most comprehensive reference on the subject to date, but he identified only 257 different 'varieties' when he published, and I have at least 450 different die marriages at the present time, and still counting. You ask if I would enjoy collecting a series under such conditions, and I must confess that it makes it even more interesting and gratifying. The very possibility that you might discover a 'new' die marriage, never before identified or published, is exciting in itself, and fulfills some inner need to provide order out of chaos in establishing a comprehensive list of the die marriages for the series. Eventually I will publish all that I have identified in a comprehensive encyclopedia for the series. I doubt that it will ever be 'complete', despite my very best efforts, simply because the mere publication of any reference on the series will prompt collectors to look more closely at their half dimes, resulting in more discoveries. Indeed, I hope that will be the case.

Yes, I can say that collecting a series for which there is no comprehensive reference or guide book is indeed challenging, fun, educational, and a whole lot of work. But afterall, that is why we collect, isn't it?

LanLord · October 20, 2008 3:44AM

I'm not even sure I would have noticed the differences in these coins to begin the study without the massive amount of data that Overton and others had compiled.

I am very appreciative of their efforts.

slumlord98 · October 20, 2008 4:02AM

As MrHalfDime states, the lure of exploring the undiscovered aspect would be even more compelling. It is important to remember that Overton built on the previous work of A.C. Geis, Beistle, and J Colvin Randall and even derived his sequencing of die pairings, in part, from Beistle. Also, research is ongoing in all denominations, from emission sequence to hub use to die states and new die marriages are still being discovered. For half dollars, the final reference hasn't been written.

NHSBaseball · October 20, 2008 4:12AM

Without the Logan/McCloskey reference, I would be entirely lost in the pursuit of my collection.

In fact, until I started coming on these message boards, I wasn't even aware that collecting by die marriages and die states in a systematic way even existed. I was vaguely aware that some people collected different varieties of certain coins, but was pretty much entirely unaware of the reference material out there and the number of collectors who avidly pursued die marriages.

As far as collecting without a reference, I can see how it could be challenging and fun to many- but it would require an amount of time and dedication that I would guess that many of us do not posess.

Oh, and I want to be first in line to buy MrHalfDime's reference when it comes out.

STONE · October 20, 2008 4:14AM

<< <i>Oh, and I want to be first in line to buy MrHalfDime's reference when it comes out.

>>

Darn, you beat me to saying this. Ok, I'll be second then

And, I guess if there were no guide(s), I would be compelled to comprise data on coins I acquire and share it with others who may be doing the same.
This data could then transform, rather quickly, into a more comprenhensive data spread. And so on...

Quarternut · October 20, 2008 9:46AM

<< <i>Would you have the patience and determination to pursue the same collection if the references didn't exist and you had to figure it all out for yourself? Do you think that you would enjoy it? >>

Yes!!!! Most definitely...

But then again, I like to research and discover things.

Even if there is a definitive reference on any series, that does not mean everything has been discovered, as there is always more to learn for those who take the time to look.

And I will do all I can to make sure MrHalfDime publishes before he is no longer able to!!

QN

If you collect by Sheldon, Overton, etc...

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