another type of doubled die?
tahoe98
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.................anyone from the afternoon crowd?
Thanks for the link
......my pleasure, les!
Neat to see people notice them on the forum
This one got listed as 1999-p 1DER-040T:
Trail dies info
The trails can be anywhere on the coin.
It might be related to the new type of press in use now where the coins are verticle in the press when they are struck.
Ray
require so much magnifaction that eventually you will see anomolies.
Heck magnify it enough you will see huge craters in the coin and a surface like mars.
but getting to the point the one thing that struck me was why trail
lines all run in the same direction on the coin for some reason. it makes
me think it is a function of the material being struck and the die striking the coin. so much heat and pressure is involved that any slight
deviance in the material, angle of strike, or whatever could cause
anomolies.
but i am just making a vague guess. strike enough coins, millions and
millions, and eventually you will get oddness on some that could be
almost unexplainable.
<< <i>Looks like a form of die erosion.
It might be related to the new type of press in use now where the coins are verticle in the press when they are struck.
Ray >>
I'll admit to being less than enthralled about these new die varieties, but I won't let that stop me from floating a hare-brained theory on their origin sparked by the comment above.
The new horizontal presses carry planchets in a semicircle, the easiest way to picture it is if you recall the old ViewMaster toy with the film which you could index and rotate to see different images. Except in this case the wheel is spinning so fast you can view twelve slides a second. In the old vertical presses you had die erosion radially in the direction of the metal flow under the striking pressure. However, the new presses run so fast that the struck coin could begin to rotate to the next station before completely working free from the dies. This would cause some erosion on the die at the edges of the highest points of relief, at a slight angle from the true horizontal plane. Assuming the dies were always oriented in the same way, the erosion would always be at the same angle on every die.
My questions would then be, has anyone found "trails" on a die which could otherwise be considered in an "early die state"? A true doubled die would get that way in the manufacturing process, so it should exist with the same doubling through several states. Since a post above mentions that dies with similar trails are cataloged by other die markers, which the die picks up over the course of being used, it seems like the answer to that question is no. The next step would involve measuring the revolving collar mechanism to see if the angle at which the planchet is removed from the dies after the strike ties out to the angle of the trails.
I will make a point now of reading up on the current research into these varieties to see if any of these ideas have already been refuted. I will say, this would not be the first time a form of die erosion fooled an expert into thinking he'd discovered a new form of doubled die; in the early 1990s John Wexler delisted hundreds of "doubled tie" and "doubled vest" varieties from his Lincoln Cent files when he determined that the doubling was a form of die erosion.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor