Assistance with Greek (?) wax seal text

cacheman · October 4, 2008 10:03AM

Here is an image of a wax seal that was found in the Goetz cabinet stash. It appears to be Pegasus and I would have thought Persius but the text doesn't imply that. Do we have any Greeks out there that can make heads or tails from the inscription?? I was thinking it might be Russian too but that doesn't make sense. Sorry, the word can't be seen better, even under a 10X stereoscope.

Any help would be appreciated.

Sapyx · October 4, 2008 1:41PM

It appears to me to be CWKPATOY - which, if we assume it's later Greek usage, in Latin/English lettering would be SOCRATOU, "of Socrates". But I'm only really confident of the last five letters.

cacheman · October 4, 2008 3:12PM

It looks like " ςωψρλτον " to me...does this even spell anything?

SYRACUSIAN · October 5, 2008 5:32AM

It appears to me that sapyx nailed it.

I see and read the same and I'm confident of the omega too -7th letter from right,2nd from left. The third letter is confusing but it has to be a K and the (first from left) C could even be a sigma that is too small to distinguish its serifs (?), in which case there is no Latin involved at all.

cacheman · October 5, 2008 8:05AM

well, if anyone is going to know, you would. Still don't understand the connection between Socrates and Pegasus though...

harasha · October 5, 2008 8:52AM

After browsing through the wonderful world of Wiki, my suggestion is that you look at the Pegasus myth as a whole. In other words, do not look at the seal as a depiction of Pegasus, but rather as the scene where Pegasus was bridled.
According to the myth, Pegasus was bridled while he was drinking at the Pierian spring. Note that on the seal, Pegasus indeed is drinking and is approached by Perseus with a bridle.
The Pierian spring was associated with the muses. Could the argument be made that Socrates was touched by a muse?

cacheman · October 5, 2008 4:24PM

It is " CωτρAτον " as evidenced by this finding in the Beazley Archive.

This 'seal' is actually a gem impression that coincides with #329 in the Marlborough Collection.

Information for this piece is as follows: No.329, Bellerophon Watering Pegasos at Hippokrene; a Tree behind. Ground Line. Inscribed ? Otiatou, or the like, apparently a false copy of Sostratou, CωτρΑτον, which appears on other versions.

Look at #329 here

TwoKopeiki · October 6, 2008 8:22AM

This and Gene's post on BoM token are the reasons I love this board so much. The pursuit of knowledge and the joy of discovery that follows it are the reasons I got into this hobby in the first place.

Way to go, guys! (and gals, of course!)

cacheman · October 10, 2008 5:01AM

Here is the response back from the professionals at the museum:
_____________________________________________________

Dear *****,

Your impression is not of the Marlborough gem but of a very similar one. They
all copy a relief in the Palazzo Spada (Bober/Rubinstein, no. 139a):

Bellerophon with dress over one shoulder and shouldering a spear, watering
Pegasos at the spring Hippokrene; a tree behind. Ground line.

All of them have slighly dodgy Greek inscriptions, yours is much better than
the Marlborough, the proper SOSTRATOU (ours manages a strange OTIATOV, or the
like).

Your version actually appears in Tassie:

Tassie Collection

enter the gem number 9052 in the box on the right. You can toggle between text
and picture. Even Tassie didn't disclose the private collector of the original.
It is more than likely that your impressions are actually manufactured by
Tassie. If there is the number 9052 on the paper wrapper that would clinch it.
The material it is made from is not actually red wax (as our Marlborough
impressions) but 'red sulphur'. It gives a very crisp product with a hard and
durable surface which is strangely brittle and can be a bit bubbly inside. That
break at the bottom definitely shouts red sulphur...
There were other manufacturers of gem impressions (among them Lippert in
Germany, Dolce and Dehn in Rome) but Tassie had the greatest number on offer
scholars could choose from. They would browse the catalogue and pick and mix.
The full set of 15800 impressions was only ordered twice: by Catherine the
Great and the V&A. See if the Tassie numbers correspond with your impressions!

Best wishes,

Claudia
____________________________________________________________

Unfortunately my impression has the #27 written on it...I wrote and asked if she could provide more info.

ColinCMR · October 10, 2008 1:44PM

that's awesome

So did the numbers match?

cacheman · October 10, 2008 2:41PM

No, Mine has "27" written in india ink on the side. It might be from the Lippert collection out of Dresden...I think she is investigating further, or, at least I hope.

farthing · October 10, 2008 11:23PM

Way Cool casheman!

Assistance with Greek (?) wax seal text

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