I agree communication is the key BUT was 2 days enough of a time to wait?
earlier today a person was chastised for whining about a card that has yet to come from the BST forum and he waited 3 days for an email before mentioning anything and it is now 17 days and he still has not received his card.
IMO 2 days (after 2.5 months) was maybe not enough time.
Two men enter....one man leaves. Two men enter....one man leaves.
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>I agree communication is the key BUT was 2 days enough of a time to wait?
earlier today a person was chastised for whining about a card that has yet to come from the BST forum and he waited 3 days for an email before mentioning anything and it is now 17 days and he still has not received his card.
IMO 2 days (after 2.5 months) was maybe not enough time.
Steve >>
Steve - Here is my basic recipe for proper communication in this situation...Never, and I do mean never, let a complaint go 2 days or more without some response. For example: a complaint on a Monday...Never wait until Wednesday to respond...it's better late than never, but not much better...that is way too long. Frankly, if a customer sends a nasty type e-mail on say a Monday, sometimes I think it's better to actually let them get a good nights sleep, and respond on Tueday to let them calm down...but the"bad number" is 2 days or later and again that simply is too long. Virtually all complaints should be handled the same day - if you're working at a regular job, then respond to the complaint in the evening by e-mail...that's quite okay.
i'll leave it here...I don't want Ron to think i'm developing another conspiracy theory here. LOL
Seeing as i dont post all that much i am not going to judge anything but i am going to say that grading is very subjective . I sent in several 79 OPC cards i thought would grade 8's . They came back mostly 6's . I did resubmit about half of them and got back 7's and a few 8's . They do seem to be really tough on OPC cards most of the time
A collector of all things Braves Always looking for Chipper Jones cards. Im a very focused collector of cards from 1909 - 2012...LOL
<< <i>It sounds like this is all Psa 's fault. They have been so tough on grades for the last month or two.
God I hope not I just sent in 65 1954 Bowmans that I'm hoping are 8's.
Steve >>
Steve don't do it, call them and tell them to cancel your order, you'll be glad that you did. I'm just kidding, but let me know what you got when they pop.
The only good thing to come out of this problem is being able to see some members true colors. This would have been best solved by the 2 members involved through a series of e mails. Some of the responding members of this board have made comments that that were totally out of line. I will get together with Steve Buscemi and make my list of members that I will never do business with due to the true feelings shown here tonight.
As far as grading OPC's, I have sent in 5 in the last month. One was the Rose EOT. The others were all 9's. So, I don't think it is nearly as hard to grade OPC's as everyone is stating.
I got a thread started here for selling an "overgraded" PSA 7 1971 Stargell to a board member so I have sympathies for anyone selling OPCs.
Lee I don't think it was unreasonable to look at that lot and see it as NM or better. Yes some are worse and some are better. I don't think it is a slam dunk way overgraded lot just based off the scans. Knowing how they graded has permantely colored all of our opinions of that lot.
I do think Ron may have been too enthusiastic in his description and I personally will undergrade raw cards to sell on ebay just to prevent these kinds of issues.
My big issue is the grading and calling out of Ron. To talk about ethics and how board members should be honest and treat each other as family and all that well I think to do your own version of "To catch an over grader" on these boards is not what the hobby or this board is about. It seems petty to me and could have been handled 2 months ago without all of this drama. Roger felt they were overgraded before submitting them and graded them to prove his point. He should have contacted Ron before grading and all could have been avoided.
In all my purchases on the BST board all lots were overgraded by a certain percentage. If they were within 1 to 2 grades however I felt ok as most of the time the prices were very fair so I assumed some risk. I also assumed that most people here submit to PSA so very few guys are leaving mint cards in their bulk lots. Some of the people accusing Ron of overgrading have done the same but didn't have this public humiliation to go with it.
Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
I have four quick followup comments to this and then I am not commenting any further:
1) Roger, rest assured my offer to donate $$ to charity was the furthest thing from an act of appeasement. You admitted you didn't like the cards but you sent them in anyway. So, you clearly weren't getting a refund from me nor would you get a refund from any other clear thinking person who was just subjected to a public thrashing because you didn't get a response within 36 hours after having approximately 1560 hours (that's 65 days) to evaluate what I sent you. Emotion got the better of you and you were interested in taking down a board member.
2) "Here's another conspiracy theory for ya. When you've got a dissatisfied customer, you don't make excuses, you offer to refund their money. Period."
COMMENT: LOL! I will refund anybody, anytime if they don't like raw stuff that they buy from me. Methinks I actually never had the opportunity to provide a refund in this circumstance, apart from the specious, sarcastic "demand" that I refund his grading fees too. But I understand it's easy to be cynical and assume the worst, since we're all taking it in the shorts these days.
3) Nick - I'm glad you care so little about me. That's reassuring because your continued posts about me suggest otherwise. Kind of like my wife's Yorkie that yaps when I don't pay attention to him.
4) I'm tempted - very tempted - so just say the heck with this board and ditch it for good, as so many good posters have in the last couple of years. stown, treetop, dude, and on and on and on. But I won't. I'll be here tomorrow with the raw card Saturday thread and afterwards. But if things continue to trend the way they're headed, there will be a time when all the good folk on this board are gone and that will be when it's time to turn off the lights.
Ron
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports. Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
1) If Roger thought they looked overgraded in hand, he should have said something 2 months ago. I think it's asking a tad too much when that much time passes yet expecting an immediate response.
2) Ron should have replied to Roger's PM when he saw it, at least saying, "Hey, I'm on the road. Give me a couple of days.."
3) Having said that, I do not believe it was proper to wait less than 2 days to 'out' an established and respected member, especially on a 2+ month old transaction.
4) Grading is subjective and I've seen HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS, of threads bishing about getting grades 2 or more points lower than expected.
Had things been handled differently on both sides, all the drama would have been avoided.
It's a shame it came to this and one of the many reasons I rarely visit these forums.
Otherwise, I hope all is well with everyone and wishing the best.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Comments
earlier today a person was chastised for whining about a card that has yet to come from the BST
forum and he waited 3 days for an email before mentioning anything and it is now 17 days and he still has not received his card.
IMO 2 days (after 2.5 months) was maybe not enough time.
Steve
It sounds like this is all Psa 's fault. They have been so tough on grades for the last month or two.
God I hope not I just sent in 65 1954 Bowmans that I'm hoping are 8's.
Steve
Two men enter....one man leaves. Two men enter....one man leaves.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>It sounds like this is all Psa 's fault. They have been so tough on grades for the last month or two. >>
Why so tough the last month or two?
Do you think the graders are in a bad mood? No PSA profit sharing bonus plan this year due to the economy?
This scares me as I'm new to grading and was planning on opening a PSA membership and submitting...
CU Ancient Members badge member.
Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/185200668@N06/albums
CU Ancient Members badge member.
Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/185200668@N06/albums
<< <i>I agree communication is the key BUT was 2 days enough of a time to wait?
earlier today a person was chastised for whining about a card that has yet to come from the BST
forum and he waited 3 days for an email before mentioning anything and it is now 17 days and he still has not received his card.
IMO 2 days (after 2.5 months) was maybe not enough time.
Steve >>
Steve - Here is my basic recipe for proper communication in this situation...Never, and I do mean never, let a complaint go 2 days or more without some response. For example: a complaint on a Monday...Never wait until Wednesday to respond...it's better late than never, but not much better...that is way too long. Frankly, if a customer sends a nasty type e-mail on say a Monday, sometimes I think it's better to actually let them get a good nights sleep, and respond on Tueday to let them calm down...but the"bad number" is 2 days or later and again that simply is too long. Virtually all complaints should be handled the same day - if you're working at a regular job, then respond to the complaint in the evening by e-mail...that's quite okay.
i'll leave it here...I don't want Ron to think i'm developing another conspiracy theory here. LOL
liability in upside-mistakes.
A read of the CLCT SEC-filings can be seen to predict that a wave
of conservatism is likely on the horizon across all collectible categories.
Conservative is good.
"Market grading" leads to gradeflation, which leads to warranty claims.
grading is very subjective . I sent in several 79 OPC cards i thought would grade 8's . They came back
mostly 6's . I did resubmit about half of them and got back 7's and a few 8's . They do seem to be really
tough on OPC cards most of the time
Always looking for Chipper Jones cards.
Im a very focused collector of cards from 1909 - 2012...LOL
<< <i>It sounds like this is all Psa 's fault. They have been so tough on grades for the last month or two.
God I hope not I just sent in 65 1954 Bowmans that I'm hoping are 8's.
Steve >>
Steve don't do it, call them and tell them to cancel your order, you'll be glad that you did.
I'm just kidding, but let me know what you got when they pop.
John
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
I think I'm going to wait for the movie to come out ....
PoppaJ
<< <i>This thread is turning into a book
I think I'm going to wait for the movie to come out ....
PoppaJ >>
I hear a movie deal is in place PoppaJ. It will have RonBurgundy starring as Kit Young.
As far as grading OPC's, I have sent in 5 in the last month. One was the Rose EOT. The others were all 9's. So, I don't think it is nearly as hard to grade OPC's as everyone is stating.
Brian
Lee I don't think it was unreasonable to look at that lot and see it as NM or better. Yes some are worse and some are better. I don't think it is a slam dunk way overgraded lot just based off the scans. Knowing how they graded has permantely colored all of our opinions of that lot.
I do think Ron may have been too enthusiastic in his description and I personally will undergrade raw cards to sell on ebay just to prevent these kinds of issues.
My big issue is the grading and calling out of Ron. To talk about ethics and how board members should be honest and treat each other as family and all that well I think to do your own version of "To catch an over grader" on these boards is not what the hobby or this board is about. It seems petty to me and could have been handled 2 months ago without all of this drama. Roger felt they were overgraded before submitting them and graded them to prove his point. He should have contacted Ron before grading and all could have been avoided.
In all my purchases on the BST board all lots were overgraded by a certain percentage. If they were within 1 to 2 grades however I felt ok as most of the time the prices were very fair so I assumed some risk. I also assumed that most people here submit to PSA so very few guys are leaving mint cards in their bulk lots. Some of the people accusing Ron of overgrading have done the same but didn't have this public humiliation to go with it.
I feel bad this happened to all of us.
Happy Friday!
<< <i>I bought a lot of 69 Topps from .44Magnum, and they were stellar, some even better than the scans showed. >>
Same here. Got a few raw lots of 1972 Topps from him and Brett and all were just as described. A few were even undergraded IMO.
1) Roger, rest assured my offer to donate $$ to charity was the furthest thing from an act of appeasement. You admitted you didn't like the cards but you sent them in anyway. So, you clearly weren't getting a refund from me nor would you get a refund from any other clear thinking person who was just subjected to a public thrashing because you didn't get a response within 36 hours after having approximately 1560 hours (that's 65 days) to evaluate what I sent you. Emotion got the better of you and you were interested in taking down a board member.
2) "Here's another conspiracy theory for ya. When you've got a dissatisfied customer, you don't make excuses, you offer to refund their money. Period."
COMMENT: LOL! I will refund anybody, anytime if they don't like raw stuff that they buy from me. Methinks I actually never had the opportunity to provide a refund in this circumstance, apart from the specious, sarcastic "demand" that I refund his grading fees too. But I understand it's easy to be cynical and assume the worst, since we're all taking it in the shorts these days.
3) Nick - I'm glad you care so little about me. That's reassuring because your continued posts about me suggest otherwise. Kind of like my wife's Yorkie that yaps when I don't pay attention to him.
4) I'm tempted - very tempted - so just say the heck with this board and ditch it for good, as so many good posters have in the last couple of years. stown, treetop, dude, and on and on and on. But I won't. I'll be here tomorrow with the raw card Saturday thread and afterwards. But if things continue to trend the way they're headed, there will be a time when all the good folk on this board are gone and that will be when it's time to turn off the lights.
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
alls well that ends well i suppose?
j
RIP GURU
1) If Roger thought they looked overgraded in hand, he should have said something 2 months ago. I think it's asking a tad too much when that much time passes yet expecting an immediate response.
2) Ron should have replied to Roger's PM when he saw it, at least saying, "Hey, I'm on the road. Give me a couple of days.."
3) Having said that, I do not believe it was proper to wait less than 2 days to 'out' an established and respected member, especially on a 2+ month old transaction.
4) Grading is subjective and I've seen HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS, of threads bishing about getting grades 2 or more points lower than expected.
Had things been handled differently on both sides, all the drama would have been avoided.
It's a shame it came to this and one of the many reasons I rarely visit these forums.
Otherwise, I hope all is well with everyone and wishing the best.