I'm contemplating the purchase of a Bust dollar... from THE FAR EAST!!! Bust dollar specialists, pl
lordmarcovan
Posts: 43,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
This thread Across The Street was brought to my attention, and I was invited to join in.
Unfortunately, I cannot post or join Across The Street, because they do not allow people with Hotmail email accounts to register.
Anyway, the coin being discussed has all of the attributes I have been searching for in a holey Bust dollar. One, it's a 1798, which is the date I always wanted. Two, it has a good hole position, and three, it's low enough grade that it should be in my pricerange. I concur with the $250 estimates given (if it is real). Nicer coins tend to skyrocket past my budget, even holed. And I would imagine lots of the nicer ones end up getting repaired.
Now, here's the thing. It's in the Far East. I know a lot of folks would reflexively flinch at the mere mention of the Far East and Bust dollars, but this is obviously not some typical cheap counterfeit. If it's counterfeit, it's a far better than average one.
And it is in Japan, not China. Furthermore, the member who posted about it is also a member here. And I see Conder101 was of the opinion that it was real, which is a plus in my book.
I am in the market for this coin whether or not it is real. If it is a counterfeit, I still want it for my Holey Coin Vest. And I am prepared to pay up to $50 for it, as a counterfeit. If it is real, I have offered approximately $300 worth of coins in trade for it (maybe a bit less if we go part cash/part trade, but those details have not been negotiated yet.)
I'm going to make an offer on it regardless, but obviously I don't want to pay "real" money (in trade) for a fake coin.
So, you tell me... should I give up $50 PayPal for it as a fake, or to be fair to the owner, do I need to come up with $250-300 in trade for it, as a real coin?
Read the replies across the street, too. As to somebody saying "the drilled hole looks too perfect for the era", that's pure horsefeathers. I can assure you I have dozens of coins older than this with neatly-drilled holes, including an ancient Roman one. (If they could make perfectly round bores in artillery pieces in the sixteenth century, you can be sure they could drill a perfectly round hole by the end of the eighteenth century!)
But I would be interested to hear what the Bust dollar specialists say about the comments regarding the date being "too bold".
Toyonakataro has said they can make bigger pictures if necessary.
Unfortunately, I cannot post or join Across The Street, because they do not allow people with Hotmail email accounts to register.
Anyway, the coin being discussed has all of the attributes I have been searching for in a holey Bust dollar. One, it's a 1798, which is the date I always wanted. Two, it has a good hole position, and three, it's low enough grade that it should be in my pricerange. I concur with the $250 estimates given (if it is real). Nicer coins tend to skyrocket past my budget, even holed. And I would imagine lots of the nicer ones end up getting repaired.
Now, here's the thing. It's in the Far East. I know a lot of folks would reflexively flinch at the mere mention of the Far East and Bust dollars, but this is obviously not some typical cheap counterfeit. If it's counterfeit, it's a far better than average one.
And it is in Japan, not China. Furthermore, the member who posted about it is also a member here. And I see Conder101 was of the opinion that it was real, which is a plus in my book.
I am in the market for this coin whether or not it is real. If it is a counterfeit, I still want it for my Holey Coin Vest. And I am prepared to pay up to $50 for it, as a counterfeit. If it is real, I have offered approximately $300 worth of coins in trade for it (maybe a bit less if we go part cash/part trade, but those details have not been negotiated yet.)
I'm going to make an offer on it regardless, but obviously I don't want to pay "real" money (in trade) for a fake coin.
So, you tell me... should I give up $50 PayPal for it as a fake, or to be fair to the owner, do I need to come up with $250-300 in trade for it, as a real coin?
Read the replies across the street, too. As to somebody saying "the drilled hole looks too perfect for the era", that's pure horsefeathers. I can assure you I have dozens of coins older than this with neatly-drilled holes, including an ancient Roman one. (If they could make perfectly round bores in artillery pieces in the sixteenth century, you can be sure they could drill a perfectly round hole by the end of the eighteenth century!)
But I would be interested to hear what the Bust dollar specialists say about the comments regarding the date being "too bold".
Toyonakataro has said they can make bigger pictures if necessary.
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Comments
My, that's an awfully strong date for a worn coin
TD
www.brunkauctions.com
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As to whether it is real or not, like I said, that makes little difference in my wanting it. Just a difference in the price.
Fake or real, I want it for the Holey Coin Vest, regardless.
If the majority says it is fake, my $50 offer stands, which is 5x the money the owner paid. If he'll accept $50 for it, I'm buying.
But obviously if it is real, I want to be fair to him, and am prepared to up my swap offer.
I've long thought a nice counterfeit (not one of the cheap, horrid ones) would be an attractive addition to the vest- attractive to my budget, that is. I don't much seek out holeys anymore. I have most of what I need and holey coins tend to find me, anyway, rather than my having to look for them anymore.
But if I trade for this as a genuine coin in the $250-300 range, it would become the second-biggest holey coin purchase ever for me. Only once have I paid more than mid-$100s for a holey coin.
Which is why a nice counterfeit at $50 would be a viable alternative for me. If this is a fake, it is good enough to be worth 50 bucks to me.
Many of the ones I bid on had better detail than that but not as nice a hole position.
I can certainly understand that reflexive prejudice (I happen to share it myself most of the time), but if you voted "it's phoney Baloney", I would like to hear better reasoning than just that alone.
"The hole is too perfectly round for that era" is not good enough. I happen to know better from personal experience.
"The date is too strong for the grade and/or issue" might be valid, though. Or whatever else of substance somebody has to say.
I wanted reasonable pros and cons, which is why I made this thread, and did so with the approval of the owner's middleman.
Do I like it 'as-is', and furthermore, would I pay $50 for it myself, were I in your fine tasselled loafers? Gladly.
It's worth a shot.
If you can get her for $250, I think you've done well.
I have seen bust dollars that the strongest feature remaining was the date. Uneven strike, uneven wear...par for the course! That does not concern me in the least with this coin.
However, it could still be a cast copy of a real coin and would show all of the same attributes.
When I am home and can look it up, I will let you know what die marriage it is.
QN
Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!
Variety: BB-105, B-23, R-1
It also looks like an old worn hole, equal to the wear on the coin.
I concur, B-23.
As I said, doesn't mean it can't be a cast copy, but at least it is not a die struck counterfeit.
I say split the difference between your $50 and $150 and go for it. Of course it isn't my money and I don't have to worry about it...
QN
Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!
It appears to be an old cast "coin" that spent some time as jewelry.
S
It's a $50 piece if fake.It's a $100 piece if real.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Sorry for the delay, but here's the larger images of the 1798 dollar.
I hope these images will give you more imformations.
Thanks in advance