Seeking much needed advice from Copper experts - Thank you!
Boom
Posts: 10,165 ✭
I just returned from visiting an old friend that tells me he's inherited an Uncle's coin collection, decades ago - right!
He breaks out SEVERAL VERY OLD Whitman holders! How old? Copyright 1949 - the last date etched in
the albums, manufactured by Whitman - 1951!! From that point thru 1967 the dates are penciled in by hand,
apparently when the Uncle passed away and how long these have been in my friend's posession, stashed away in
a closet!
My friend tells me he has never opened them since inheriting them, several decades ago and that they had been
sitting in this closet all these years. IMMEDIATELY I find this to be true, because although being very careful I find
the first album is literally stuck together. When I tried to open it - the cover side just disintegrates and rips/ tears
right off. I'm the first to open these albums in at least 40 years!
Fortunately I always run around with my trusty loupe. What I see next has my heart pounding.
Coins that have been kept in Whitman for decades tend to tone very heavily. The "look" is undeniably - AUTHENTIC!
I take the album outside into the sunlight and immediately realize that these heavily toned Copper Cents are indeed, UNCIRCULATED. THERE ARE SEVERAL COMPLETED COLLECTIONS OF LINCOLNS HERE AND FIRST GLANCE FLOORS ME!
Despite the years, some are Brown and some are Red but toned a subdued Red etc due of the time involved here.
I will take pictures as they presently are to hopefully shed some light on the coins' condition.
To get to the point, let me say that due to the properties of Copper some have toned/ tarnished over the Red -
some rather unattractively ... however I see NO WEAR at all. Despite toning etc I can see luster & full strikes.
What should I do to refurbish/ restore these coins safely? I do NOT know how to "work" Copper but have no
intention of dipping or otherwise subjecting these sharply struck specimen to any chemicals.
What IS the optimum way of restoring these pieces back to full Red I see on some areas of these coins?
Surely, copper experts know what to do & how to go about this. Do I soak them in Virgin Olive Oil, Mineral Oil or ..... ?
If any Copper Pros happen to know what to do and what to use I would certainly appreciate any help or advise.
Thank you in advance.
I'll be back ASAP with some pix.
He breaks out SEVERAL VERY OLD Whitman holders! How old? Copyright 1949 - the last date etched in
the albums, manufactured by Whitman - 1951!! From that point thru 1967 the dates are penciled in by hand,
apparently when the Uncle passed away and how long these have been in my friend's posession, stashed away in
a closet!
My friend tells me he has never opened them since inheriting them, several decades ago and that they had been
sitting in this closet all these years. IMMEDIATELY I find this to be true, because although being very careful I find
the first album is literally stuck together. When I tried to open it - the cover side just disintegrates and rips/ tears
right off. I'm the first to open these albums in at least 40 years!
Fortunately I always run around with my trusty loupe. What I see next has my heart pounding.
Coins that have been kept in Whitman for decades tend to tone very heavily. The "look" is undeniably - AUTHENTIC!
I take the album outside into the sunlight and immediately realize that these heavily toned Copper Cents are indeed, UNCIRCULATED. THERE ARE SEVERAL COMPLETED COLLECTIONS OF LINCOLNS HERE AND FIRST GLANCE FLOORS ME!
Despite the years, some are Brown and some are Red but toned a subdued Red etc due of the time involved here.
I will take pictures as they presently are to hopefully shed some light on the coins' condition.
To get to the point, let me say that due to the properties of Copper some have toned/ tarnished over the Red -
some rather unattractively ... however I see NO WEAR at all. Despite toning etc I can see luster & full strikes.
What should I do to refurbish/ restore these coins safely? I do NOT know how to "work" Copper but have no
intention of dipping or otherwise subjecting these sharply struck specimen to any chemicals.
What IS the optimum way of restoring these pieces back to full Red I see on some areas of these coins?
Surely, copper experts know what to do & how to go about this. Do I soak them in Virgin Olive Oil, Mineral Oil or ..... ?
If any Copper Pros happen to know what to do and what to use I would certainly appreciate any help or advise.
Thank you in advance.
I'll be back ASAP with some pix.
0
Comments
It will take a while as I have a few other things to do first however if anyone knows how to properly refurbish these to bring out the full luster and to do away with the unattractive toning I'd appreciate any and all advice.
Till then ....
BOOM ~
Here's the advice:
DON'T
don't do a damn thing to the little beauties. If they are as nice as you say then
perhaps they need to be graded. Copper can do some weird toning but there's
no way to safely remove the toning and restore it to red. Just don't even try.
CAN'T SAFELY BE DONE!
bob
Can't be done unsafely either. Copper is very sensitive to chemicals as well as very soft relative to other coins/alloys. There are a few tricks that can be done to enhance the coins, but can not remove toning. Acetone to clean pvc is the only safe thing a novice can do, and then don't over do it in Acetone neither. Anything else you do will ruin the coin, it will be very distinctely altered and easily noticed by anyone that knows copper.
JP
JP
Capped Bust Half Dollars by Variety & Die State Pictorial Refrence
Acetone would remove unwanted chemicals, PVC, sulfur.......who knows what else it will remove.
I would not use anything on them trying to enhance the color or make the color look new again..........You will not be happy with the results and you will decrease their numismatic value.
If the tones are not pleasing to you, it is best to find a collector that seeks those tones and strike a deal.
Alan
What matters is if they were cleaned 40 years ago and retoned or if they were original.
Pics would be great
If you really want to do something to the coins, send them to the Pro's at NCS. But like mentioned above, copper is particularly unpredictable.
Best bet is to select candidates for grading and send them on into our hosts.
My 2C,
Bob
<< <i> What IS the optimum way of restoring these pieces back to full Red I see on some areas of these coins? >>
To my knowledge, there is no way.
As stated, these old Whiman albums are copyrighted 1949 with etched in dates from Whitman ending in 1951.
Super old - super fragile and deteriorating. They were like stuck/ sealed when I opened them for the first time in decades!
What I saw confounds me because anyone can see that they are fully struck with zero wear but have acquired
thick Brown crusty coats on most and just a very few have some corrosion from humidity.
The 1918 looks like a World War II type of Gray.
Let me transfer a couple to photobucket. Remember, these are unedited - just pointed & shot.
I'll be back shortly.
Empty Nest Collection
I'll need to slow down and take better pix of each album but I want to give you an idea of the kind of condition these coins are in. Despite basically being neglected and thrown in a dark corner of a closet for several decades the vast majority of what I have seen thus far are ALL uncirculated specimen in need of some sort of help. And I have NO CLUE how to work with real copper!
Thanks!
Bottom right looks like a good example here.
The name is LEE!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
There are a lot of very nice, Uncirculated pieces here!
Thanks for the sage advice, Pro!
<< <i>
What should I do to refurbish/ restore these coins safely? I do NOT know how to "work" Copper but have no
intention of dipping or otherwise subjecting these sharply struck specimen to any chemicals.
What IS the optimum way of restoring these pieces back to full Red I see on some areas of these coins?
>>
That's sorta contradictory. I think if your going to want to restore any of the red it will take quite a bit of "work."
<< <i>What IS the optimum way of restoring these pieces back to full Red I see on some areas of these coins? >>
I don't think you can Boom.
The name is LEE!
There are several sets involved. a couple of them complete with keys.
You wanted pix to get a feel for condition so I hurriedly snapped off a few.
What you see is precisely that. Of the handful of pix I took these show
what I am referring to but does not show any of the earlier pieces, which
are all basically in this same condition... Unc but crusty with but a few
that have issues. I didn't take my time and meticulously photograph
every last coin/ section of every single album nor have I shown the
Mercury Dimes that are heavily toned/ extremely colorful or the WLHs.
This is far from being all there is!
1. There is NO WAY to turn a brown copper back to red. Done. Many have tried, few have succeeded, and the ones that have deal with deadly chemicals to do so.
2. There IS a way to take the coins that you have, leave them the same color, and remove the grime off them without harming the coin - but if you're wanting to do all this without the use of chemicals, it's not going to happen.
3. It takes quite a bit of experience to know which are candidates for treatment and which ones are not. This is something that cannot easily be taught. It's learned through years of experience.
4. From what I have seen in the photos, there are MANY EF-AU coins there of common dates...the same things we pull out of bags for a nickel or less a coin. If there are better coins, they aren't in your images. I would like to see some of the better coins so I will know what to tell you regarding those. The coins you have already shown aren't worth the time to restore them unless it's for sentimental value only. If it's for resale, they are basically worthless.
If you'd like to email me and exchange images and discourse about this collection, I'd be happy to field photos and or questions. I don't come here often, but read my email every day... cd at coppercoins dot com.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
<< <i>With that story I thought for sure we would see some nice early dates but it looks like you can tell your friend he has been saving crap for decades. >>
You know some of us take offense at calling them crap. Some one put a lot of time and love in collecting them, because they may not be worth a tremendous amount of money doesn't give you the right to call them crap. The most enjoyment I ever had in collecting was putting together sets like this with my dad.
Al
<< <i>
<< <i>With that story I thought for sure we would see some nice early dates but it looks like you can tell your friend he has been saving crap for decades. >>
You know some of us take offense at calling them crap. Some one put a lot of time and love in collecting them, because they may not be worth a tremendous amount of money doesn't give you the right to call them crap. The most enjoyment I ever had in collecting was putting together sets like this with my dad. >>
Where is that set now?
Secondly, to the snide nay-sayers:
It appears you think that what is shown is all there is.
Far from it.
Some asked for a few pix. I snapped off just a few quickies
& chose these few.
THERE ARE SEVERAL OLD WHITMAN INVOLVED
with what appears to be at least 2 completed sets.
As for my firend collecting Trash -
He is NOT a coin collector AT ALL. These are his, having been
passed down to him as a young boy over 40 yrs ago.
He does not have time to collect coins!
The fact that these have remained in the same spot in a corner
of a closet for over 40 years attests to this.
He KNOWS I am a collector however, I know squat about
Copper but DO respect others' property!
The moment I saw all the coins I appreciated the fact that they
were once owned by someone who sought out very nice
examples as all are very sharply struck despite years
of neglect by my friend who could really care less.
Not everyone in the world is a coin collector however he entrusted
these to me to evaluate which is why I came here and sought
advice from those of you that DO or might know.
If you can help and feel like doing so - great!
If you think this is all there is - that's your perogative.
Whether I obtain insight here or not, I WILL find a way.
The nicer, older problem free albeit crusty old specimen
that are no-brainer keys, that any and all collectors
SHOULD be aware of, will NOT be messed with at all.
Thank you.
Boomer, I'm not dissing your coins but this is how I handle common wheaties. Yesterday I purchased 8-10 albums consisting of wheats, IHC's, Buffalo's and merc / roosies / Lib Nickels etc. The Lincoln album purchased in 1951, the same as your ending date of text. It was the Father's of a WWII vet. Hadn't been opened in decades. It still didn't change the value. Thankfully the WWII vet didn't have illusions on value. He simply wanted his closet cleaned out for once.
I price the semi and key dates separtetly. Everything else, including what may appear as unc's and all early dates etc - I simply pay 2 ¢ for. Yes, Two cents right across the board. For this Album of early Lincolns here there are 64 coins. I paid $1.28 cents plus I pay $2 if the Album is in good shape and these are. Sad isn't it, someone put all that effort into it for $1.28. Yeppers, I pay more for the albums than all these common pennies. If they were Red Unc's, I still wouldn't pay more, they'd only be worth money if they were registry type grade and that isn't going to happen out of an album (being realistic). These Albums are as common as dirt. Just because someone took the time to push them into the slots don't make them more valuable to me, it does make it easier to sell them though. Truthfully, if there wasn't more valuable coins outside of all the common wheats, I wouldn't buy them. Usually, people want to dump everything at once so to make the deal palatable to them, I buy it all. Then I come home and throw away any penniy that is too corroded, damaged or too much pvc for me want to mess with. I don't know, I guess write me off as not being a common wheatie fanatic.
Purchased 9/17/08
I am simply seeking advice for a friend who has about as much knowledge
as I do about properly working with Copper.
I have no disillusions of making any super graded coins nor any high hopes
of somehow restoring this very .... difficult alloy. Copper is not my strong suit.
Thanx again for sharing your insight & Knowledge. I appreciate it.