2 HEROES THAT ARE NOW 2 GOATS!

sideordertodd · September 9, 2008 8:28AM

It's hard to believe that 10 years ago Big Mac and Sammy Sosa changed the game of baseball forever. Did they not think of what their actions would do to tarnish the national past time? The answer is no, these two self serving guys where out for nobody but themselves. I feel bad for Roger Maris's family who officially handed over the single season home run crown to Big mac in St Louis that fateful night by shaking his hand and hugging him just to be respectful that he broke the record. I hope that Big Mac has a conscious that keeps him up at night for taking a record that stood for many years from a true man of the game and tainting it forever.
I was recently refreshed on what we were taught at the young age of 5 when my son went to kindergarten. Each day the class must say an oath to love their mother and father while having respect for others and remember to be honest in whatever you do. Big mac, you can learn allot from a 5 year old. TB

StanTheManMusial · September 9, 2008 8:39AM

~Yeah, MLB played no part in this. It didn't help MLB, the owners, and Bud Selig's pockets at all. Yes, shame on McGwire, but Sammy Sosa was as lilly white as they get on this matter.~

Check back in once you take the blinders off. There is no need to bash McGwire, solely, for something that almost all of baseball was doing. Do yourself a favor and read Game Of Shadows, Juiced, and the Mitchell Report for more info.

VitoCo1972 · September 9, 2008 8:42AM

Stan, I don't think the OP was taking any blame away from Sosa - McGwire is the one that broke the record. Todd, if I'm incorrect, please feel free to correct me.

lawnmowerman · September 9, 2008 8:45AM

Oh great. Another one of these threads.

I Can't wait.

StanTheManMusial · September 9, 2008 8:45AM

<< Stan, I don't think the OP was taking any blame away from Sosa - McGwire is the one that broke the record. Todd, if I'm incorrect, please feel free to correct me. >>

He was cutting McGwire pretty hard, and soft tossing Sosa. BOTH, McGwire and Sosa broke Maris' record, so how is one worthy of the blame and harsher critique, but the other is not? It's just like some that bash Bonds, but tippy toe around the fact that Clemens was just as dirty. It's silly, when one is as dirty as the next.

WinPitcher · September 9, 2008 9:04AM

In this country people are innocent until proven guilty.

Last I heard neither of those two were found guilty of anything.

besides Sammy no speakada englishhhhh.

Steve

(head in the sand)

StanTheManMusial · September 9, 2008 9:05AM

<< In this country people are innocent until proven guilty.

Last I heard neither of those two were found guilty of anything.

besides Sammy no speakada englishhhhh.

Steve

(head in the sand) >>

^^

^^

Yeah, I hear ya. That's interesting though, Sosa had no problem telling me where to go when I politely asked for his sig at Busch Stadium in 1999. The English was spoken pretty clearly, so he might have just "mis-remembered" when he was in front of Congress.

sideordertodd · September 9, 2008 9:20AM

You are correct i was just looking back to that night that changed baseball forever. I know that Sosa and countless others also were implicated but my point was that Big mac had no problem at all taking the record from a family that humbly handed it over.

hockeyguy · September 9, 2008 9:38AM

Mac made the game exciting again, that I know for sure.

He was a skinny kid, who knocked out 49 home runs WITHOUT the juice in 1987, and I suspect he started (the juice) when his back injuries nearly took him out of the game.

I suspect the same of Clemens, when he struggled towards the end of his Boston stint. He came back a monster after that.

I wont name others, because I feel the rest were VERY selfish as to why they roided up.

One of the "Black Sox" players was thrown out of baseball, just because he KNEW about the World Series payoff. He was thrown out of baseball, for the "integrity of the game". BUD SELIG should be thrown out, as he knew what was going on. But, if congress didnt mind, neither did he. When congress minded, then he "changed the game". Great guy.

Mac is a good guy. I dont believe he was completely selfish. He was doing what we all wanted him to do.

lsutigers1973 · September 9, 2008 9:40AM

<< besides Sammy no speakada englishhhhh >>

First, you spelled it wrong. It is "Engarish"

Second, sorry this happened to you

bigfische · September 9, 2008 9:41AM

<< 

<< Stan, I don't think the OP was taking any blame away from Sosa - McGwire is the one that broke the record. Todd, if I'm incorrect, please feel free to correct me. >>

He was cutting McGwire pretty hard, and soft tossing Sosa. BOTH, McGwire and Sosa broke Maris' record, so how is one worthy of the blame and harsher critique, but the other is not? It's just like some that bash Bonds, but tippy toe around the fact that Clemens was just as dirty. It's silly, when one is as dirty as the next. >>

He talked about mac because it was just the anniversary of his HR that broke the record. Im sure you knew that but decided to look past it.

TomGshotput · September 9, 2008 10:02AM

By 1998 most other major sports banned steroids and tested for them. The Olympics had been doing so for 30 years. It was 10 years ago that Ben Johnson was so famously stripped of his gold medal; Lyle Alzado had died six years earlier; it was the year the Tour de France had fewer than half of all riders finish due to doping violations. Yet baseball was a sport based around power, featuring heavily muscled athletes that were not subject to drug testing. If they were thinking of what their actions were doing, perhaps they were thinking of all the fans and everyone in the media who were asking them to do whatever it took to hit homeruns by celebrating each one so much without ever raising the issue

DrJ · September 9, 2008 10:15AM

Thank goodness this is old news and the game appears to have rounded the corner on the steroids era.

It was a ton of fun watching those two go at it for the record I must admit. Put baseball back on the Radar to some degree after the 1994 strike took most of the wind out of its sails.

metalmike · September 9, 2008 10:30AM

Stanthemanly is mad because all of his big Mac cards are worthless and when it comes out that pujols uses HGH he will quit the hobby (we hope)

hockeyguy · September 9, 2008 10:32AM

<< Thank goodness this is old news and the game appears to have rounded the corner on the steroids era. >>

Not completely. It will come up year after year, during HOF elections (lack of elections rather)

McGwire
Clemens
Bonds
Sosa
Palmero
I. Rod
Sheffield
Juan Gon
Giambi
Pettitte

and lets see if any new books name our greatest current day player

I think the roid topic is still strong enough to last another 10 years worth of discussions

perkdog · September 9, 2008 10:40AM

I know Im on an island with this but I dont really care, I absolutely LOVED 1998, my Red Sox were just a big let down year after year at that point and I had very little interest in MLB ( Aside from getting hurt by the Sox ) It brought me back to the game as a whole and for me it was the best season to watch- I still remember me and a few of my buddies constantly talking about that HR race and being glued to sportscenter just about every night late in the season. Its not a popular thing to say but I admit I love the big HR's in baseball and dont have a problem with what these guys were doing, Im not saying they DIDNT cheat but it was fun to watch. Just my 2 cents

SoonerCowboy · September 9, 2008 10:44AM

The chase with McGwire and Sosa got me back into watching baseball again and back into collecting cards. Even though we know now they were cheating was it exciting. I still have McGwire's 60th and 61st HR game on vhs tape. When all of that was going on I worked the midnight shift and the first thing I would do when I got home was to turn the television to espn in order to see if one of them hit another one. Hell, I still have a shelf in "my" room dedicated to Big Mac.

rube26105 · September 9, 2008 10:47AM

i remember when ted kenndy called em mike mcgwire and sammy sooser

mtcards · September 9, 2008 11:53AM

Maybe I forgot, but was it against the rules to use any of the performance enhancing drugs back then?

WinPitcher · September 9, 2008 12:08PM

Well maybe not against MLB rules but it was against the law fwiw.

Steve

FanOf390 · September 9, 2008 12:12PM

It was the "steroid era" -- and I DON'T have a problem with it -- and it did NOT affect either of my kids (born in 1984 and 1987). I'm an AVID baseball fan -- but my wife and I take complete responsibility for raising our kids -- we were NEVER worried that our kids would use any of MY baseball heroes as role models. BTW, our kids have turned out great!

One more point: To me, athletes are entertainers -- no more, and no less. To me, they are just like Movie and Television stars -- simply playing a different "sport". I personally don't give a rat's butt if Julia Roberts takes drugs to make it through her grueling schedule while making a movie -- to me, she's simply an entertainer. Likewise, to me, Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, Clemens ... -- they are simply entertainers -- and I do NOT feel threatened in ANY way by their alleged steroid use. That's right -- even they're ROID rage doesn't threaten me -- at least not as much as my neighbors' ROAD RAGE!

Charlie

fur72 · September 9, 2008 12:29PM

This talk will go on forever! Roids, HGH, juiced balls, corked bats and what ever the next perfromance enhancing drug of choice will be. 1998 was a great time and if someone thinks I am going to throw out 10+ years of baseball out the window is crazy. Baseball's history has followed history its self.

I compare it to the old timers who threw spit balls or some type of foreign substance. What bothers me is there is not the same frustration shown toward those pitchers. Its always said with a smile. "Oh that Gaylord Perry and his spitball, that funny guy" Cant see how one form of what is considered "Cheating" is cheered and one is jeered.

perkdog · September 9, 2008 12:40PM

<< It was the "steroid era" -- and I DON'T have a problem with it -- and it did NOT affect either of my kids (born in 1984 and 1987). I'm an AVID baseball fan -- but my wife and I take complete responsibility for raising our kids -- we were NEVER worried that our kids would use any of MY baseball heroes as role models. BTW, our kids have turned out great!

One more point: To me, athletes are entertainers -- no more, and no less. To me, they are just like Movie and Television stars -- simply playing a different "sport". I personally don't give a rat's butt if Julia Roberts takes drugs to make it through her grueling schedule while making a movie -- to me, she's simply an entertainer. Likewise, to me, Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, Clemens ... -- they are simply entertainers -- and I do NOT feel threatened in ANY way by their alleged steroid use. That's right -- even they're ROID rage doesn't threaten me -- at least not as much as my neighbors' ROAD RAGE!

Charlie >>

perkdog · September 9, 2008 12:41PM

<< This talk will go on forever! Roids, HGH, juiced balls, corked bats and what ever the next perfromance enhancing drug of choice will be. 1998 was a great time and if someone thinks I am going to throw out 10+ years of baseball out the window is crazy. Baseball's history has followed history its self.

I compare it to the old timers who threw spit balls or some type of foreign substance. What bothers me is there is not the same frustration shown toward those pitchers. Its always said with a smile. "Oh that Gaylord Perry and his spitball, that funny guy" Cant see how one form of what is considered "Cheating" is cheered and one is jeered. >>

as well!

StanTheManMusial · September 9, 2008 1:07PM

<< 

<< 

<< Stan, I don't think the OP was taking any blame away from Sosa - McGwire is the one that broke the record. Todd, if I'm incorrect, please feel free to correct me. >>

He was cutting McGwire pretty hard, and soft tossing Sosa. BOTH, McGwire and Sosa broke Maris' record, so how is one worthy of the blame and harsher critique, but the other is not? It's just like some that bash Bonds, but tippy toe around the fact that Clemens was just as dirty. It's silly, when one is as dirty as the next. >>

He talked about mac because it was just the anniversary of his HR that broke the record. Im sure you knew that but decided to look past it. >>

I did not look past anything. Give me a break... I know what he was saying, but I was just pointing out that the whole dang era was tarnished, not just McGwire. The pitchers were on steroids too, so it was all a big mess.

He was talking about how he hoped McGwire could not sleep at night, blah, blah, blah... No mention of Sosa in the same harsh way, of hoping he missed sleep at night, McGwire could learn from a 5 year old, ect, ect...

It saddens me that the whole era and some cherished records have been tarnished, but there's nothing more we can do but move forward, and learn from the past. As another said, McGwire is a pretty good guy. Met him numerous times around St. Louis, and I like Mark, just not some of the choices he made. He sure gave a lot back to the community. More than I ever could hope to, so I tip my hat to him. I believe in second chances and forgiveness. That applies to all the players who made those poor choices to use peds.

nam812 · September 9, 2008 1:11PM

<< Stanthemanly is mad because all of his big Mac cards are worthless and when it comes out that pujols uses HGH he will quit the hobby (we hope)

>>

StanTheManMusial · September 9, 2008 1:18PM

<< 

<< Stanthemanly is mad because all of his big Mac cards are worthless and when it comes out that pujols uses HGH he will quit the hobby (we hope)

>>

>>

Nice to see some childish vendettas still run wild on this board. I guess when some have nothing to do but booze it up, and be bored in their lives, they must take pot shots at others.

And for the record, I don't own a single McGwire card. None..

And there is no need to worry about Pujols. If any player is a role model, it's Albert. No need to tell nasty lies on a great person just because you want have something to spew about. If you truly know what Albert's about, you could not even state such a silly thing. I guess there will be haters in all parts of life.

neenish · September 9, 2008 1:35PM

<< 

<< besides Sammy no speakada englishhhhh >>

First, you spelled it wrong. It is "Engarish"

Second, sorry this happened to you >>

Hey, I didn't know that Sammy was Asian... "engarish" too funny.

Carew29 · September 9, 2008 2:17PM

<< In this country people are innocent until proven guilty... Some are just actually GUILTY!! OJ!!

BobaFett72 · September 9, 2008 2:40PM

future hall of famers??

McGwire: nope. probably wouldnt have hit 500 HR without; one dimensional player

Clemens: yes, one day
Bonds: yes, didnt need the juice but certainly used it.
Sosa: debatable.
Palmero: nope, a proven liar
I. Rod: yes
Sheffield: nope, douchebag
Juan Gon: not even close
Giambi: not even close
Pettitte: needs a couple more seasons

Stingray · September 9, 2008 9:22PM

<< Mac made the game exciting again, that I know for sure.

He was a skinny kid, who knocked out 49 home runs WITHOUT the juice in 1987, and I suspect he started (the juice) when his back injuries nearly took him out of the game.

I suspect the same of Clemens, when he struggled towards the end of his Boston stint. He came back a monster after that.

I wont name others, because I feel the rest were VERY selfish as to why they roided up.

One of the "Black Sox" players was thrown out of baseball, just because he KNEW about the World Series payoff. He was thrown out of baseball, for the "integrity of the game". BUD SELIG should be thrown out, as he knew what was going on. But, if congress didnt mind, neither did he. When congress minded, then he "changed the game". Great guy.

Mac is a good guy. I dont believe he was completely selfish. He was doing what we all wanted him to do. >>

Nicely said.

WinPitcher · September 9, 2008 11:37PM

Pettitte: needs a couple more seasons

and a ticket to get in.

Steve

2 HEROES THAT ARE NOW 2 GOATS!

Comments