Should dealers at shows recommend that customers "put a glass" on the coin, to prevent ret

Longacre · September 3, 2008 11:13PM

Personally, I really don't like buying coins at coin shows. For some reason, I feel a lot of pressure to make a decision, the bourse is usually hot and crowded, and I don't feel as though I have sufficient time to analyze the coin, the price, the amount currently in my checkbook and how it will affect subsequent purchases that day, etc.

For dealers, the problems are probably just the same. I think the dealers look at each coin sale as a way to build a relationship with the customer, and hopefully provide a good coin, at a fair markup, and that customer will spread the word about that dealer's wares.

Dealers probably hate returns, and would probably rather not make a sale, than dealer with a customer who wants to return a coin he just bought. With that said, should a dealer either recommend (or even require) that all customers "put a glass" on the coin they're looking to buy, in order to protect both parties? The dealer will be better off because there is less of a likelihood of a return, and the customer will be able to get a better look at the coin. Does this make sense, or it is totally up to the customer to make up his mind, glass or not.

Shamika · September 3, 2008 11:22PM

I honestly feel that any coin sold at a show should be final. I understand the problems with making a decision at the show with the noise and the crowd and the pressure, but if the buyer can't be decisive, that's his (the buyer's) problem.

lcoopie · September 3, 2008 11:24PM

having zero coin show experience,
and knowing that I need "help" to see small objects well
I would think that asking a customer

would you like to take a look with my loupe

would make that dealer look better in my eyes
than someone who wouldn't mention it

MrHalfDime · September 3, 2008 11:52PM

It has always been my understanding that purchasing a coin at a coin show is a "sight-seen" transaction, and therefore there would be no returns allowed, except perhaps for reasons of authenticity. If a collector travels to a coin show and takes the necessary steps to attend, then he is assuming responsibility to make those kinds of decisions on the spot before commiting to the purchase. Personally, I cannot even relate to your comments about not having "... sufficient time to analyze the coin, the price, the amount currently in my checkbook and how it will affect subsequent purchases that day, etc.". I absolutely love coin shows, and go out of my way to attend as many as I can, simply because it provides me with the most coins, the most dealers, and the best opportunities for significant purchases. But commensurate with coin show attendance and purchases comes the personal responsibility to be able to make a decision, and certainly to "put a glass to it". It is inconceivable to me that anyone would make any coin purchase, under any circumstances, without "putting a glass to it", and it should not be the responsibility of the dealer to remind me. As Shamika hinted, if a collector cannot assume that minimum amount of personal responsibility, then perhaps this is not the best hobby for them to pursue.

Preussen · September 3, 2008 11:55PM

Recommend? ...if they wish. Require? ...No. I believe it the buyer's responsibility to use whatever means he/she feels is necessary to decide whether to purchase or pass. Anyone attending a show without a loupe is either a total moron or has far better vision than I. Coin show guarantees should be limited to authenticity IMO. It's called "Personal Responsibility."

I ran out of gas in my car once...(yes, I was a moron), but I really think the last gas station attendant should have recommended (or required) that my tank was completely full before I left. ...not. -Preussen

mrpotatoheadd · September 3, 2008 11:57PM

There's nothing wrong with a dealer offering a loupe to a customer, but I'd say it's up to the buyer to decide how best to inspect the coin. I have a friend who wears glasses- he takes his glasses off (and typically doesn't use a magnifier) to get a better look at a coin. I'd imagine that anyone who felt they needed a loupe would bring one with them to a show. Are there really that many collectors who go to shows and don't?

PerryHall · September 4, 2008 12:07AM

It's the buyer's responsibility to bring a loupe with him to a coin show and it's his responsibility to use it when examining a coin.

ziggy29 · September 4, 2008 12:09AM

Require it? No. But if all sales are final when a coin is purchased sight-seen (with the usual exceptions for authenticity), it's incumbent on the buyer to really examine it well before buying.

mike92694 · September 4, 2008 12:26AM

<< I honestly feel that any coin sold at a show should be final. I understand the problems with making a decision at the show with the noise and the crowd and the pressure, but if the buyer can't be decisive, that's his (the buyer's) problem. >>

I have a question. How about taking this from the view of a non-numismatist.? By this, I mean one who is normally is not into coin collecting, but instead has come into the show and has been caught up in the excitement so to speak.

PerryHall · September 4, 2008 12:29AM

<< 

<< I honestly feel that any coin sold at a show should be final. I understand the problems with making a decision at the show with the noise and the crowd and the pressure, but if the buyer can't be decisive, that's his (the buyer's) problem. >>

I have a question. How about taking this from the view of a non-numismatist.? By this, I mean one who is normally is not into coin collecting, but instead has come into the show and has been caught up in the excitement so to speak. >>

Why should this be the dealer's problem? I'm assuming the buyer is a grown up.

Preussen · September 4, 2008 12:31AM

<< I have a question. How about taking this from the view of a non-numismatist.? By this, I mean one who is normally is not into coin collecting, but instead has come into the show and has been caught up in the excitement so to speak. >>

No difference...I'm not a gambler but I went to Vegas and got caught up in the excitement...should the casino give my money back? It's called taking personal responsibility. -Preussen

RYK · September 4, 2008 12:36AM

I agree re: not liking buying coins at shows. I prefer to examine the coin under my optimal conditions at home prior to making a decision.

That said:

1. Coin show sales are generally final.

2. Most coin show sales are probably hit-and-run transactions, not necessarily relationship-building transactions.

3. It is rare for a dealer to ask me to look at a coin with a loupe prior to purchase.

4. It is even rarer for a bourse dealer to want me to look at a coin with a loupe prior to purchase.

5. Not all coins require a loupe examination prior to purchase, at least not in my opinion.

mike92694 · September 4, 2008 12:43AM

<< 

<< I have a question. How about taking this from the view of a non-numismatist.? By this, I mean one who is normally is not into coin collecting, but instead has come into the show and has been caught up in the excitement so to speak. >>

No difference...I'm not a gambler but I went to Vegas and got caught up in the excitement...should the casino give my money back? It's called taking personal responsibility. -Preussen >>

Right. But when people go to Vegas, the expect to gamble. But some people may not be familiar with the "rules of the game" so to speak ... In many cases, when people go to buy something, they expect to be able to return it if things don't go well.

Let's take another example. The department store. You try out a pair of pants, and then buy the pants. In many cases, if you don't like the pants after you buy it and take it home, you can return it within a certain period of time.

Preussen · September 4, 2008 1:00AM

<< Right. But when people go to Vegas, the expect to gamble. >>

Yeah, so, tell me again...people (including the non-numismatist mentioned before) go to coin shows expecting to...what?

<< Let's take another example. The department store. You try out a pair of pants, and then buy the pants. In many cases, if you don't like the pants after you buy it and take it home, you can return it within a certain period of time. >>

Let's take another example... Ever try to return a Caddy because you later decided you really wanted the BMW instead? I know, there are endless examples. I just think that purchases at coin shows are final. JMO

-Preussen

ElKevvo · September 4, 2008 1:00AM

Boy I wish the guy I bought a 2 center from had asked me if I needed a loupe...I forgot mine at a show recently and even with my glasses couldn't see the coin very well (what happened to the old days when I could easily see the mintmark on a dime?!!) ...I have chatted with the dealer every time I see him as he is a nice guy and at this show had sat and talked to him for a while I felt comfortable buying the coin...well good thing I don't have much into it 'cause I overpaid by a lot! I'll still say hi to him but will never buy anything from him again...

K

TahoeDale · September 4, 2008 1:01AM

Many times, at a large show, you will view a coin that you did not expect to see, and if you have other commitments for buying, that coin will just have to wait.

Some dealers will put it aside, or call you if it is about to be sold.

I do not remember a dealer offering a loupe, unless I asked for one( mine not available at the time).

If you have a good relationship with the dealer, the present intent to purchase can even be cancelled, during the show. I have done this on 2 occasions, where I found a better example.

But, I have had previous dealings that make such accomodations appropriate. New relationships may not be subject to this ease of dealing.

mrpotatoheadd · September 4, 2008 1:08AM

<< I'll still say hi to him but will never buy anything from him again... >>

You'll never buy from that dealer again because you overpaid for a coin you couldn't see very well since you didn't bring a loupe to inspect your prospective purchases? Why is that the dealer's fault?

Coxe · September 4, 2008 1:11AM

Buy a coin at a show or B&M and there shouldn't be a return priviledge unless that's part of the agreement for some odd reason. Approval sales are for sight unseen transactions.

PerryHall · September 4, 2008 2:09AM

<< I'll still say hi to him but will never buy anything from him again... >>

You are doing the dealer a favor. I'm sure he won't miss a whiney, crybaby collector. Did you even bother to ask to borrow a loupe? What ever happened to personal responsibility?

blu62vette · September 4, 2008 2:15AM

I think offering glass to view a coin is a sign of confidence in a dealers coin and would make sense to offer one. I think it gives off a vibe beneficial to potentially completing the transaction.

I dont think not offering glass has any effect, but refusing glass or acting shocked when a customer pulls out glass makes it look like a dealer may knwo of a potential problem with the coin.

MikeInFL · September 4, 2008 2:20AM

"Should dealers at shows recommend that customers "put a glass" on the coin, to prevent returns?"

Yes. However, even with a glass, the light at shows sucks so bad that some problems may not be visible.

To wit, I have (on two occasions) purchased coins at shows only to get them home and find them hairlined. In both cases (and quite contrary to the comments of some on this thread) the dealers took the return without any prior discussion of the possibliity. The dealers -- Tom Reynolds and Doug Bird. The lesson -- some collector-friendly dealers won't stick a collector with a coin they don't like, even if it was sold sight-seen.

Does that make me a whiney crybaby who doesn't take responsibility for his actions, or does that make me a collector who seeks out dealers who actually care about their customer's satisfaction? You be the judge...Mike

[edited because sometimes I get confused between possessive and plural]

BECOKA · September 4, 2008 2:32AM

I think they bank on the fact that many customers don't use glass and that they have a better chance of selling a less attractive coin without returns. The number of people that use glass when they get home is probably small enough that they will gladly take a couple of returns to get more stuff out the door.

Coxe · September 4, 2008 2:45AM

I dunno. Couldn't imagine shopping for coins without a loupe, at least not without a decent magnifying glass. To me, the customer who doesn't do similar is not doing due dilligence. It is on par with not having a price guide and just paying the asking price. We all know the latin phrase for it all.

PerryHall · September 4, 2008 3:12AM

<< "Should dealers at shows recommend that customers "put a glass" on the coin, to prevent returns?"

Yes. However, even with a glass, the light at shows sucks so bad that some problems may not be visible.

To wit, I have (on two occasions) purchased coins at shows only to get them home and find them hairlined. In both cases (and quite contrary to the comments of some on this thread) the dealers took the return without any prior discussion of the possibliity. The dealers -- Tom Reynolds and Doug Bird. The lesson -- some collector-friendly dealers won't stick a collector with a coin they don't like, even if it was sold sight-seen.

Does that make me a whiney crybaby who doesn't take responsibility for his actions, or does that make me a collector who seeks out dealers who actually care about their customer's satisfaction? You be the judge...Mike

[edited because sometimes I get confused between possessive and plural] >>

You should have asked for permission to take the coin to a table with a better bourse lamp. If the dealer won't let you, you should have just passed on the coin. I've never had a problem with a dealer letting me take the coin to another table to get a better look at a coin.

PTVETTER · September 4, 2008 3:19AM

As a Dealer I hate returns. I sometimes understand, but other times there is just NO reason for returning a coin except that they just changed thier mind. The other thing I hate is that they show everyone they know and one not all but just one says I think you can do better, Hey look at mine that I will show you. Since I am such a nice guy I stand by my coins and honor the return/s. But inside I am really upset. Thier writing on the holder and all that stuff just gets me down.

Broadstruck · September 4, 2008 3:28AM

I normally ask if I can take it out in the sun light at a show as even under better lighting the overhead fluorescent lights still hinder really seeing the coin.

RYK · September 4, 2008 3:29AM

Actually, I just committed to a coin without putting a glass to it. I must be doing something wrong.

In my world, the lighting at shows is a considerably bigger handicap than the (possible) absence of magnification. Even when you go to a table with better portable lighting, the fluorescent ceiling lighting impacts my perception. There's no place like home.

MikeInFL · September 4, 2008 3:52AM

<< 

<< "Should dealers at shows recommend that customers "put a glass" on the coin, to prevent returns?"

Yes. However, even with a glass, the light at shows sucks so bad that some problems may not be visible.

To wit, I have (on two occasions) purchased coins at shows only to get them home and find them hairlined. In both cases (and quite contrary to the comments of some on this thread) the dealers took the return without any prior discussion of the possibliity. The dealers -- Tom Reynolds and Doug Bird. The lesson -- some collector-friendly dealers won't stick a collector with a coin they don't like, even if it was sold sight-seen.

Does that make me a whiney crybaby who doesn't take responsibility for his actions, or does that make me a collector who seeks out dealers who actually care about their customer's satisfaction? You be the judge...Mike

[edited because sometimes I get confused between possessive and plural] >>

You should have asked for permission to take the coin to a table with a better bourse lamp. If the dealer won't let you, you should have just passed on the coin. I've never had a problem with a dealer letting me take the coin to another table to get a better look at a coin. >>

The lighting at all dealer's tables suck -- the ambient light in the room kills even the best table light, and this makes seeing hairlines, in particular, very difficult.

That said, perhaps I should just continue to work with dealers who are concerned with their customer's satisfaction and stand behind their coins, as is my right as a buyer/consumer. Because, the way I see it at least, one of a dealer's responsibilities is to ensure my satisfaction and I expect them to stand behind what they sell -- even if that's not the status quo on the bourse.

You are free to disagree, but please don't tell me what I "should" do, as I do not appreciate being patronized. Thank you.

Respectfully...Mike

Broadstruck · September 4, 2008 4:09AM

I consider a show purchase a done deal, and a 10x loupe and exterior lighting is the only way to seal the deal. I've been doing this for close to 2 decades as mentioned below you can not spot hairlines under fluroescent... if your wondering why a MS66 is not in a MS67 holder 15 seconds in the sun will give you the answer faster then 15 minutes under show lighting.

Edited to add: This also work great if your hitting on a Booth Babe as once you see her in sun light you might have a change of heart!

PerryHall · September 4, 2008 4:20AM

<< The lighting at all dealer's tables suck -- the ambient light in the room kills even the best table light, and this makes seeing hairlines, in particular, very difficult. >>

How are dealers able to buy and sell millions of dollars worth of coins at every major show?

Coxe · September 4, 2008 4:23AM

<< 

<< The lighting at all dealer's tables suck -- the ambient light in the room kills even the best table light, and this makes seeing hairlines, in particular, very difficult. >>

How are dealers able to buy and sell millions of dollars worth of coins at every major show? >>

CAC stickers guide them, of course!

Broadstruck · September 4, 2008 4:24AM

<< 

<< The lighting at all dealer's tables suck -- the ambient light in the room kills even the best table light, and this makes seeing hairlines, in particular, very difficult. >>

How are dealers able to buy and sell millions of dollars worth of coins at every major show? >>

They are buying at sheet so if they get $#!+ from time to time it's still flippable!

Broadstruck · September 4, 2008 4:25AM

<< 

<< 

<< The lighting at all dealer's tables suck -- the ambient light in the room kills even the best table light, and this makes seeing hairlines, in particular, very difficult. >>

How are dealers able to buy and sell millions of dollars worth of coins at every major show? >>

CAC stickers guide them, of course! >>

jsf · September 4, 2008 4:34AM

Has anyone tried the new, 3-power LED headlamps for looking at coins? One could easily be taken into shows along with a loupe, ...seems like that would provide light near-par with what some of us shoot our coins under.

s'just an idea...

MikeInFL · September 4, 2008 4:35AM

<< 

<< The lighting at all dealer's tables suck -- the ambient light in the room kills even the best table light, and this makes seeing hairlines, in particular, very difficult. >>

How are dealers able to buy and sell millions of dollars worth of coins at every major show? >>

I have no idea, you tell me.

That said, and quite frankly, what dealers do is completely immaterial to the discussion at hand -- I only speak for myself (and I'm not so presumptuous as to tell people what they should and shouldn't do, nor label them as whiney crybabies, nor insinuate they are immature and/or not taking responsibiliy for their actions if they don't conform

).

Respectfully....Mike

pocketpiececommems · September 4, 2008 4:41AM

I know that lighting can be a big problem at shows but why go to one if you aren't going to buy anything even if it might be something that you want or need. It costs to much to drive there for that.

Should dealers at shows recommend that customers "put a glass" on the coin, to prevent ret

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Should dealers at shows recommend that customers &quot;put a glass&quot; on the coin, to prevent ret

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Should dealers at shows recommend that customers "put a glass" on the coin, to prevent ret