Grade this Gobrecht, please...

clw54 · February 10, 2007 2:18AM

<< It more than doubled in price ONLY because it was doctored.

It may be more accurate to say that the coin first sold for less than half its real value because it was not toned. >>

This is true. I've sold untoned Morgans that didn't bring $3000 because they weren't toned. I got reamed.

Type2 · February 10, 2007 2:19AM

elwood · February 10, 2007 2:30AM

I would liked to have seen the coin before it was dipped.

That was as big a tragedy as the AT job, which is acceptional. (at least from the pics)

I don't approve of artificial toning but if the buyer liked the look of the coin???

Over the years I've knowingly purchased 2 coins that were 100% AT'd. I didn't care, I really liked the look, they brought me enjoyment so I bought them. I also sold them as AT'd coins to willing buyers who were more than happy to purchase them in that condition.

CalGold · February 10, 2007 2:35AM

Consider the following statement from a well known toned coin maven, taken from a thread on the TCCS board—discussing a Peace dollar rather than this Gobrecht. This ought to make you feel all warm and cuddly about those toned type coins in your vault:

<< At least toned dollars are easy to spot with artificial toning. A fellow dealer offered to give me all his artificial toning recipes for type coins and copper for the low price of $250,000. He's an old-timer in the business, and his work fools ME almost every time. I cannot believe what he is capable of doing. That's why if you bring me certain toned coins in holders at shows I'll just take the Fifth. I know enough to say that what's out there is scary, and I can't even spot most of it.

At least artificial toning is somewhat detectable. Gold is worse than anything else, but let's save that for another day. >>

The dealer who said the foregoing has been dealing in toned coins for many years. If he can’t spot the work of the experts why should anyone be surprised if the coins are winding up in TPG holders. The standard used by PCGS for bagging or grading a toned coin is “clear and convincing evidence” Here is the standard as explained by David Hall

<< The guiding concept on artificial toning (and many other no-grades) is "clear and convincing evidence." If a grader is fairly certain the coin is AT he will not grade it. If he's just "sort of suspicious he'll put a grade on it. >>

Now you can wring your hands all you want but consider all of the gripes posted here from collectors and dealers who have had their coins bagged by PCGS for questionable toning or altered surfaces—the submitter is always certain that they have been treated unjustly. So there are two sides of the coin from a practical and business point of view.

And, yes, if by now you are thinking that this and the other posts in this thread are offering no solutions to the problem you are right. Any body have a solution to screening expert work that can fool seasoned pros? So when you pull your slabs out of the safe and start having doubts, just remember that Hollywood is full of lasered and botoxed beauties.

CG

clw54 · February 10, 2007 3:03AM

<< I don't approve of artificial toning but if the buyer liked the look of the coin??? >>

As long as the buyer knew about it, sure.

IGWT · March 24, 2007 9:36AM

So, I assume it's safe to say that the culprit was tracked down and dealt with appropriately.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · March 24, 2007 9:42AM

articially toned--no doubt

IGWT · February 19, 2008 10:28AM

My, how quickly a year passes.

MrEureka · February 19, 2008 10:29AM

I'm impressed that this thread was never poofed!

commoncents05 · February 19, 2008 10:31AM

<< I'm impressed that this thread was never poofed! >>

It's somewhat disguised as a legit post, and doesn't scream "Poof me" like many of the poofables.

-Paul

IGWT · February 19, 2008 10:38AM

I'm impressed that this thread was never poofed!

Master of the understated title. Remember, TDN started a companion thread, "How did this AT POS end up in a PCGS holder," or some such title, that is no more.

ChrisRx · February 19, 2008 11:15AM

Too bad for THAT toning, might be a nice coin without it.

IGWT · February 19, 2008 11:18AM

<< Too bad for THAT toning, might be a nice coin without it. >>

You need to read a little more deeply.

ChrisRx · February 19, 2008 11:21AM

<< 

<< Too bad for THAT toning, might be a nice coin without it. >>

You need to read a little more deeply. >>

Yea, so it turns out it is AT AAAANNNDD cleaned. Yikes.

Zoins · February 19, 2008 5:30PM

One of my big questions regarding this coin is if the CAC had stickered it before it was exposed, what, if any, compensation would the CAC provide? There's been some speculation that the CAC would not sticker this know that the history was known, but what if they stickered it before?

In other words, what is the value of the CAC sticker if they get something "wrong"?

DennisH · February 20, 2008 12:45AM

PR64

Zoins · February 22, 2008 1:03AM

I just entered the cert number into the cert verification website and it didn't come up. Has this coin been disavowed?

bluelobster · February 22, 2008 2:38AM

Two things stand out to me about this:

There needs to be an easier way without dipping or stripping a coin to detect the quality of the underlying surfaces of a coin.

The other, is playing the crackout game, with valuable coins in slabs that appear undergraded, is going to be much riskier..... because it's beginning to look like quite a few would never get back in.

IGWT · August 26, 2008 12:12PM

tightbudget · August 26, 2008 2:12PM

Now why was this bumped???

MrEureka · August 26, 2008 2:46PM

Strange. I was sure this thread got poofed!

Doogy · May 11, 2009 12:41PM

this classic deserves a bump!

jhdfla · May 11, 2009 3:54PM

Treeman · May 11, 2009 11:28PM

Wow! I read through this whole thread before realizing it's an "oldie"! Seems funny that it re-emerged after Boom's AT/NT thread. Everybody who said so, still believe the "graders got it right" on Boom's coins?????

Lakesammman · July 24, 2009 2:34PM

Yep, truly a classic........

Justacommeman · July 24, 2009 3:39PM

I just spent the 40 minutes of my life reading this AND the companion NGC thread.

All I can say is wow, what an education and that I think I will sleep with the lights on tonight. I'm scared.............MJ

MikeInFL · July 24, 2009 3:51PM

This was an eye opener.

lordmarcovan · July 24, 2009 4:42PM

I grade it scrumptdillyicious.

Edit: I only read the OP (and failed to notice it was an old thread). I see there was something of a trick question involved, apparently?

Gee, that Mr. E is a sly devil, ain't he?

Maybe that's why "Mister E" sounds like mystery... get it? Ha. I crack me up.

Oh OK, never mind.

IGWT · April 1, 2010 9:57AM

So, does Secure Plus mean no more threads like this one?

LindeDad · April 1, 2010 11:08AM

Actully no diferent services were involved so until the Big boys learn to play together on this issues there will still be a loope hole for the crooks to get threw.

COALPORTER · April 1, 2010 11:12AM

What happened to the guy that paid 46K ?

MrEureka · August 21, 2012 10:10AM

So, does Secure Plus mean no more threads like this one?

I'm afraid not, my friend.

Zoins · August 21, 2012 10:16AM

<< What happened to the guy that paid 46K ? >>

Did he get it bumped from PR63 to PR64?

Grade this Gobrecht, please...

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