Baloney Frank! How in the heck would you know what other folks are submitting and how in the heck would you know if they are "evading sales taxes, taxes on profits, and inventory taxes."? Do each of them come to you and confess their sins? >>
The ones who hell will freeze over before Paypal gets their social security number? When Paypal or ebay start reporting gross sales to the IRS is when they will leave the hobby? The people who are so secretive about their identities? Is your name REALLY Lee Ilikeikenhower?
<< <i>If my bulk submittals for Presidential FDI Dollars is really cannibalizing your "business" just let me know and I'll be happy to ship all my unsold low grade FDI coins to you at wholesale prices and YOU can SELL THEM! Pay me what I paid just to have them graded and they are yours. >>
I don't buy this type of material, sorry.
<< <i>Better yet, how about YOU submit my FDI coins for ME like a good PCGS Authorized Dealer is SUPPOSED TO? BTW, what are your terms for submitting BULK coins for Collectors Club Members anyway? >>
I will submit anything at published PCGS rates, but for local submittals only.
<< <i>Might as well publish it right here. That is what a PCGS Authorized Dealer is supposed to do right? >>
If any PCGS dealers are refusing to submit coins in accordance with their agreements with PCGS, they should be reported.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
Catch frank in his little stories and call him out on things and he will start crying whenever you post like that...and will lump you in with Russ and I
Though, it does sound like frank may be one of the reasons that folks can no longer do bulk submissions as collectors....sounds like he whined a bit.... >>
Don't blame me, I am just a little fish in the pond. There are 2 or 3 big dealers that make up about 25% of PCGS's business. Nothing unusual, here. Do you think Ford or Chevy dealers would stand for the factory to be selling large quantities of new cars to non-dealers, who could resell them into the market without having to pay a mandatory percentage of national advertising, or to maintain a service dept
It does not make sense that people submitting large quantities of moderns or FS would not apply to be a PCGS dealer. If you have $100,000 in assets and don 't have a criminal record, you can apply to be a PCGS dealer... no annual membership fees, and you can submit at LOWER rates than the PCGS club members, and PCGS will pay a lot more attention to your concerns.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>The ones who hell will freeze over before Paypal gets their social security number? When Paypal or ebay start reporting gross sales to the IRS is when they will leave the hobby? The people who are so secretive about their identities? Is your name REALLY Lee Ilikeikenhower? >>
PayPal has my SSN and the name has not always been that way Frank! If you really must know, I'll PM it to you. Those that need to know it already do including my eBay buyers. I'm not trying to be secretive as much as Internet cautious.
<< <i>If my bulk submittals for Presidential FDI Dollars is really cannibalizing your "business" just let me know and I'll be happy to ship all my unsold low grade FDI coins to you at wholesale prices and YOU can SELL THEM! Pay me what I paid just to have them graded and they are yours.
I don't buy this type of material, sorry. >>
As I suspected as there are probably only 3 maybe 4 dealers that do. But since they participate in the FDI program, they already have their own so they won't buy mine either.
<< <i>Better yet, how about YOU submit my FDI coins for ME like a good PCGS Authorized Dealer is SUPPOSED TO? BTW, what are your terms for submitting BULK coins for Collectors Club Members anyway?
I will submit anything at published PCGS rates, but for local submittals only. >>
Too bad as I am really in the market looking for someone to wrok with me. The restrictions on the submissions are tough since I do not have access to a bank willing to release these until the day of actual release. I expect they think that the Federal Government will come after them if they do despite the fact that I bring Philadelphia coins into them before they "been released"!
I am not against removing the bulk submission capabilities of Collectors Club Members but I hate the fact that PCGS lumped the Presidential Dollar FDI coins into that group. I just do not understand the reasoning especially since they removed the quantity limitations on the First Strike™ submissions.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I appreciate PCGS giving the First Strikes back to Collector Club Members but they should never have been taken away to start with. What PCGS should have done was return all services that were available to the member when they joined and set a date in which new members would have a different level of service. Anything less seems like a breach of contract to me as long as the member keeps their membership current.
I appreciate PCGS giving the First Strikes back to Collector Club Members but they should never have been taken away to start with. What PCGS should have done was return all services that were available to the member when they joined and set a date in which new members would have a different level of service. Anything less seems like a breach of contract to me as long as the member keeps their membership current. >>
A paid membership can be revoked. There is no contract, nor a breach of one... There are policies and revisions. We just roll with the punches.
<< <i>A paid membership can be revoked. There is no contract, nor a breach of one... There are policies and revisions. We just roll with the punches. >>
Even if there is no written contract, legally there is an implied one. Even buying a pack of gum at the convenience store is an implied contract.
An offering of goods or services was made, and club members agreed to give money exchange for the promised goods and services.
<< <i>A paid membership can be revoked. There is no contract, nor a breach of one... There are policies and revisions. We just roll with the punches. >>
Even if there is no written contract, legally there is an implied one. Even buying a pack of gum at the convenience store is an implied contract.
An offering of goods or services was made, and club members agreed to give money exchange for the promised goods and services. >>
LOL@ club members complaining because they can't spend their money on KooLAid..... now this is funny.
<< <i>The ones who hell will freeze over before Paypal gets their social security number? When Paypal or ebay start reporting gross sales to the IRS is when they will leave the hobby? The people who are so secretive about their identities? Is your name REALLY Lee Ilikeikenhower? >>
PayPal has my SSN and the name has not always been that way Frank! If you really must know, I'll PM it to you. Those that need to know it already do including my eBay buyers. I'm not trying to be secretive as much as Internet cautious.
<< <i>If my bulk submittals for Presidential FDI Dollars is really cannibalizing your "business" just let me know and I'll be happy to ship all my unsold low grade FDI coins to you at wholesale prices and YOU can SELL THEM! Pay me what I paid just to have them graded and they are yours.
I don't buy this type of material, sorry. >>
As I suspected as there are probably only 3 maybe 4 dealers that do. But since they participate in the FDI program, they already have their own so they won't buy mine either.
<< <i>Better yet, how about YOU submit my FDI coins for ME like a good PCGS Authorized Dealer is SUPPOSED TO? BTW, what are your terms for submitting BULK coins for Collectors Club Members anyway?
I will submit anything at published PCGS rates, but for local submittals only. >>
Too bad as I am really in the market looking for someone to wrok with me. The restrictions on the submissions are tough since I do not have access to a bank willing to release these until the day of actual release. I expect they think that the Federal Government will come after them if they do despite the fact that I bring Philadelphia coins into them before they "been released"!
I am not against removing the bulk submission capabilities of Collectors Club Members but I hate the fact that PCGS lumped the Presidential Dollar FDI coins into that group. I just do not understand the reasoning especially since they removed the quantity limitations on the First Strike™ submissions. >>
i too wish to have the option of doing bulk submissions along with doing first strike submissions.
but after reading your posts i can`t imagine for the life of me why you want to submit these coins. i did that with the G. Washington FDI and broke even with early sales and then they went DEAD!!!
when i list these now on the bay i get $6 shipped with a .99 auction for a MS65.
why would you want to do this???
edited to add that FDI is not the same as first strike and is OT in this thread
For whatever reason, PCGS chose to put First Day of Issue into the same category as the 'Special Dealer Inserts' for 'Flag Statehood Quarters' and 'Satin Finish' coin bulk submissions.
For those of you that don;t have a clue:
Special Labels even though the coins have identical PCGS Coin Numbers. A Flag State Quarter Slab carries the same weight as a regular state quarter except the coin was submitted in a bulk lot by a dealer for grading. The same is true of the Satin Finish Label. Both coins are completely interchangeable within the registries and as any special PCGS label, some folks like to keep all the labels alike for their collections.
The Presidential Dollar is different though as the First Day of Issue (FDI) coins have different coin numbers which creates a totally different 'registry' set for FDI coins. The FDI coins CAN be used in the non-FDI sets but non-FDI coins CANNOT be used in the FDI set(s). No interchangeability!~
For this reason, I think its a bit unfair that PCGS started the program under the Bulk Submission rules as a lot of folks got in there from day 1 and started these sets up. Not with the intention of become a "dealer" but with the intention of getting high grade FDI coins without having to go through a dealer. The same could be said for the First Strike™ coins. First Strike™ coins HAVE a different coin number and right now, Collectors Club members still have the option of continuing their First Strike™ registry sets without being forced to go through a dealer.
First Day of Issue registry participants, now, DO NOT have that option. We can ONLY purchase these from dealers that DECIDE to submit them. Currently, there are only 3 or 4 across the country which translates into higher realized prices because availability has now become limited due to they way PCGS defines how they are submitted!
Yes, common grades and coins are next to impossible to realize any kind of prices on, but those more difficult grades with the low population coins get up there in price rather quickly. Especially with the lower populations.
How many folks realize that an MS67 Pos A FDI John Adams Dollar (pop 2) commands a $10,000 price tag or that its brother, the Position B coin in MS67 (pop 3) commands an $8,000 price? Even the D coins in MS67 command $6,750 (pop 5) and $10,000 (pop 2) prices! Thw Washington coin got all the publicity when it auctioned off for over $1,600 and has actually increased in price since then but the Adams coin snuck in there with the big ticket prices!
The chances of scoring one of those coins in a collectors club submission, at least gave the submitter the opportunity whereas the rules right now, completely kills that option.
If any collectors club member started submitting these at the outset, and is participating in the FDI Registry, and wishes to continue, they are now at the mercy of those 3 or 4 dealers and sometimes the results are just not pretty.
As an example with given populations and dealer prices, look at the Jefferson Missing Edge Letter coins. A total population of 888 coins yet look at the prices:
Note that these are NOT FDI coins yet the prices are outrageous compared to the low population FDI coins which in that price level have populations of less than 10 for each one!
Why the variance? Simply because the Jefferson Missing Edge Letter coins are totally controlled! Probably by one individual!
There is absolutely no OTHER reason as the populations do not justify the price yet the only way to get one is to cough up a BUNCH of money. The sad thing about this is that some investment group jumped in here, purchased a bunch of these, established a price (regardless of the populations) and is unwilling to take a loss for their stupidity!
IMO, this is only an indicator of what to expect with the FDI coins as "Dealer Only Submissions" yet the coins have the same basic scenario as the First Strike™ coins with different coin numbers and different registry sets.
I don't expect to continue registry participation for FDI unless I can win some lottery somewhere as submissions will decline and the populations will give false readings of relative rarities which can be translated into much higher prices.
For now, I'll simply concentrate on the non-FDI set.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I have a 100% complete state quarter collection, P, D, and S, business strike and satin finish. I am wondering and hoping that PCGS will offer a program to allow us to re-holder complete collections with flag holders once the state quarter program is done. It would be nice, as I am stuck with an annoying variety of holders for this series.
Customer Service told me that 1st Strike labels for Collectors Club members will NOT have a flag or buffalo picture. The label wil simply say First Strike. The Flag when available or the buffalo picture is only available on bulk orders. Kinda like the little circle star on Bulk Satin Finish orders.
GrandAm
UPDATE 8/25/08:::
Customer Service just contacted me. Apparently what I was told on 8/22/08 was a mistake. ANYONE who gets 1st Strike labels on the 2008-W Gold Buffalo will get the Buffalo Label. The Flag label is not available and they will not put just First Strike on the label
Comments
<< <i>
Baloney Frank! How in the heck would you know what other folks are submitting and how in the heck would you know if they are "evading sales taxes, taxes on profits, and inventory taxes."? Do each of them come to you and confess their sins? >>
The ones who hell will freeze over before Paypal gets their social security number? When Paypal or ebay start reporting gross sales to the IRS is when they
will leave the hobby? The people who are so secretive about their identities? Is your name REALLY Lee Ilikeikenhower?
<< <i>If my bulk submittals for Presidential FDI Dollars is really cannibalizing your "business" just let me know and I'll be happy to ship all my unsold low grade FDI coins to you at wholesale prices and YOU can SELL THEM! Pay me what I paid just to have them graded and they are yours. >>
I don't buy this type of material, sorry.
<< <i>Better yet, how about YOU submit my FDI coins for ME like a good PCGS Authorized Dealer is SUPPOSED TO? BTW, what are your terms for submitting BULK coins for Collectors Club Members anyway? >>
I will submit anything at published PCGS rates, but for local submittals only.
<< <i>Might as well publish it right here. That is what a PCGS Authorized Dealer is supposed to do right? >>
If any PCGS dealers are refusing to submit coins in accordance with their agreements with PCGS, they should be reported.
<< <i>Careful Lee,
Catch frank in his little stories and call him out on things and he will start crying whenever you post like that...and will lump you in with Russ and I
Though, it does sound like frank may be one of the reasons that folks can no longer do bulk submissions as collectors....sounds like he whined a bit.... >>
Don't blame me, I am just a little fish in the pond. There are 2 or 3 big dealers that make up about 25% of PCGS's business. Nothing unusual, here. Do you think Ford or Chevy dealers would stand for the factory to be selling large quantities of new cars to non-dealers, who could resell them into the market without having to pay a mandatory percentage of national advertising, or to maintain a service dept
It does not make sense that people submitting large quantities of moderns or FS would not apply to be a PCGS dealer. If you have $100,000 in assets and don 't have a criminal record, you can apply to be a PCGS dealer... no annual membership fees, and you can submit at LOWER rates than the PCGS club members, and PCGS will pay a lot more attention to your concerns.
<< <i>The ones who hell will freeze over before Paypal gets their social security number? When Paypal or ebay start reporting gross sales to the IRS is when they
will leave the hobby? The people who are so secretive about their identities? Is your name REALLY Lee Ilikeikenhower? >>
PayPal has my SSN and the name has not always been that way Frank! If you really must know, I'll PM it to you. Those that need to know it already do including my eBay buyers. I'm not trying to be secretive as much as Internet cautious.
<< <i>If my bulk submittals for Presidential FDI Dollars is really cannibalizing your "business" just let me know and I'll be happy to ship all my unsold low grade FDI coins to you at wholesale prices and YOU can SELL THEM! Pay me what I paid just to have them graded and they are yours.
I don't buy this type of material, sorry. >>
As I suspected as there are probably only 3 maybe 4 dealers that do. But since they participate in the FDI program, they already have their own so they won't buy mine either.
<< <i>Better yet, how about YOU submit my FDI coins for ME like a good PCGS Authorized Dealer is SUPPOSED TO? BTW, what are your terms for submitting BULK coins for Collectors Club Members anyway?
I will submit anything at published PCGS rates, but for local submittals only. >>
Too bad as I am really in the market looking for someone to wrok with me. The restrictions on the submissions are tough since I do not have access to a bank willing to release these until the day of actual release. I expect they think that the Federal Government will come after them if they do despite the fact that I bring Philadelphia coins into them before they "been released"!
I am not against removing the bulk submission capabilities of Collectors Club Members but I hate the fact that PCGS lumped the Presidential Dollar FDI coins into that group. I just do not understand the reasoning especially since they removed the quantity limitations on the First Strike™ submissions.
The name is LEE!
I appreciate PCGS giving the First Strikes back to Collector Club Members but they should never have been taken away to start with. What PCGS should have done was return all services that were available to the member when they joined and set a date in which new members would have a different level of service. Anything less seems like a breach of contract to me as long as the member keeps their membership current.
<< <i>Okay, back to the thread.
I appreciate PCGS giving the First Strikes back to Collector Club Members but they should never have been taken away to start with. What PCGS should have done was return all services that were available to the member when they joined and set a date in which new members would have a different level of service. Anything less seems like a breach of contract to me as long as the member keeps their membership current. >>
A paid membership can be revoked. There is no contract, nor a breach of one... There are policies and revisions. We just roll with the punches.
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>seems like a breach of contract >>
since services were available when you joined but then removed because someone figured out they could do it.
Sure hope the new car manufacturer doesn't change their mind about the 36,000 mile warranty after I drive the car 4,000 miles!
<< <i>A paid membership can be revoked. There is no contract, nor a breach of one... There are policies and revisions. We just roll with the punches.
Even if there is no written contract, legally there is an implied one. Even buying a pack of gum at the convenience store is an implied contract.
An offering of goods or services was made, and club members agreed to give money exchange for the promised goods and services.
<< <i>
<< <i>A paid membership can be revoked. There is no contract, nor a breach of one... There are policies and revisions. We just roll with the punches.
Even if there is no written contract, legally there is an implied one. Even buying a pack of gum at the convenience store is an implied contract.
An offering of goods or services was made, and club members agreed to give money exchange for the promised goods and services. >>
LOL@ club members complaining because they can't spend their money on KooLAid..... now this is funny.
(laughing at myself most of all)
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>The ones who hell will freeze over before Paypal gets their social security number? When Paypal or ebay start reporting gross sales to the IRS is when they
will leave the hobby? The people who are so secretive about their identities? Is your name REALLY Lee Ilikeikenhower? >>
PayPal has my SSN and the name has not always been that way Frank! If you really must know, I'll PM it to you. Those that need to know it already do including my eBay buyers. I'm not trying to be secretive as much as Internet cautious.
<< <i>If my bulk submittals for Presidential FDI Dollars is really cannibalizing your "business" just let me know and I'll be happy to ship all my unsold low grade FDI coins to you at wholesale prices and YOU can SELL THEM! Pay me what I paid just to have them graded and they are yours.
I don't buy this type of material, sorry. >>
As I suspected as there are probably only 3 maybe 4 dealers that do. But since they participate in the FDI program, they already have their own so they won't buy mine either.
<< <i>Better yet, how about YOU submit my FDI coins for ME like a good PCGS Authorized Dealer is SUPPOSED TO? BTW, what are your terms for submitting BULK coins for Collectors Club Members anyway?
I will submit anything at published PCGS rates, but for local submittals only. >>
Too bad as I am really in the market looking for someone to wrok with me. The restrictions on the submissions are tough since I do not have access to a bank willing to release these until the day of actual release. I expect they think that the Federal Government will come after them if they do despite the fact that I bring Philadelphia coins into them before they "been released"!
I am not against removing the bulk submission capabilities of Collectors Club Members but I hate the fact that PCGS lumped the Presidential Dollar FDI coins into that group. I just do not understand the reasoning especially since they removed the quantity limitations on the First Strike™ submissions. >>
i too wish to have the option of doing bulk submissions along with doing first strike submissions.
but after reading your posts i can`t imagine for the life of me why you want to submit these coins. i did that with the G. Washington FDI and broke even with early sales and then they went DEAD!!!
when i list these now on the bay i get $6 shipped with a .99 auction for a MS65.
why would you want to do this???
edited to add that FDI is not the same as first strike and is OT in this thread
<< <i>why would you want to do this???
edited to add that FDI is not the same as first strike and is OT in this thread
Submitting FDI is the only way I could possibly get one of these:
Pop 18 of 1,356
Or one of these:
Pop 17 of 1,231
Or one of these:
Pop 6 of 1,873
Now go have another beer............
Thats why.
The name is LEE!
The name is LEE!
Thank you for reconsidering! You guys did the right thing by us little folk. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Bob
<< <i>And it is on topic since First Strike™ and FDI Bulk were jerked at the same time! >>
I just caught this, was FDI reinstated or was it just First Strike?
For whatever reason, PCGS chose to put First Day of Issue into the same category as the 'Special Dealer Inserts' for 'Flag Statehood Quarters' and 'Satin Finish' coin bulk submissions.
For those of you that don;t have a clue:
Special Labels even though the coins have identical PCGS Coin Numbers. A Flag State Quarter Slab carries the same weight as a regular state quarter except the coin was submitted in a bulk lot by a dealer for grading. The same is true of the Satin Finish Label. Both coins are completely interchangeable within the registries and as any special PCGS label, some folks like to keep all the labels alike for their collections.
The Presidential Dollar is different though as the First Day of Issue (FDI) coins have different coin numbers which creates a totally different 'registry' set for FDI coins. The FDI coins CAN be used in the non-FDI sets but non-FDI coins CANNOT be used in the FDI set(s). No interchangeability!~
For this reason, I think its a bit unfair that PCGS started the program under the Bulk Submission rules as a lot of folks got in there from day 1 and started these sets up. Not with the intention of become a "dealer" but with the intention of getting high grade FDI coins without having to go through a dealer. The same could be said for the First Strike™ coins. First Strike™ coins HAVE a different coin number and right now, Collectors Club members still have the option of continuing their First Strike™ registry sets without being forced to go through a dealer.
First Day of Issue registry participants, now, DO NOT have that option. We can ONLY purchase these from dealers that DECIDE to submit them. Currently, there are only 3 or 4 across the country which translates into higher realized prices because availability has now become limited due to they way PCGS defines how they are submitted!
Yes, common grades and coins are next to impossible to realize any kind of prices on, but those more difficult grades with the low population coins get up there in price rather quickly. Especially with the lower populations.
How many folks realize that an MS67 Pos A FDI John Adams Dollar (pop 2) commands a $10,000 price tag or that its brother, the Position B coin in MS67 (pop 3) commands an $8,000 price? Even the D coins in MS67 command $6,750 (pop 5) and $10,000 (pop 2) prices! Thw Washington coin got all the publicity when it auctioned off for over $1,600 and has actually increased in price since then but the Adams coin snuck in there with the big ticket prices!
The chances of scoring one of those coins in a collectors club submission, at least gave the submitter the opportunity whereas the rules right now, completely kills that option.
If any collectors club member started submitting these at the outset, and is participating in the FDI Registry, and wishes to continue, they are now at the mercy of those 3 or 4 dealers and sometimes the results are just not pretty.
As an example with given populations and dealer prices, look at the Jefferson Missing Edge Letter coins. A total population of 888 coins yet look at the prices:
390499 (2007) Missing Edge Lettering Thomas Jefferson
MS64 = 2,000 (pop 20)
MS65 = 2,250 (pop 367)
MS66 = 3,000 (pop 397)
MS67 = 4,000 (pop 103)
MS68 = 6,500 (pop 1)
Note that these are NOT FDI coins yet the prices are outrageous compared to the low population FDI coins which in that price level have populations of less than 10 for each one!
Why the variance? Simply because the Jefferson Missing Edge Letter coins are totally controlled! Probably by one individual!
There is absolutely no OTHER reason as the populations do not justify the price yet the only way to get one is to cough up a BUNCH of money. The sad thing about this is that some investment group jumped in here, purchased a bunch of these, established a price (regardless of the populations) and is unwilling to take a loss for their stupidity!
IMO, this is only an indicator of what to expect with the FDI coins as "Dealer Only Submissions" yet the coins have the same basic scenario as the First Strike™ coins with different coin numbers and different registry sets.
I don't expect to continue registry participation for FDI unless I can win some lottery somewhere as submissions will decline and the populations will give false readings of relative rarities which can be translated into much higher prices.
For now, I'll simply concentrate on the non-FDI set.
The name is LEE!
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I have a 100% complete state quarter collection, P, D, and S, business strike and satin finish. I am wondering and hoping that PCGS will offer a program to allow us to re-holder complete collections with flag holders once the state quarter program is done. It would be nice, as I am stuck with an annoying variety of holders for this series.
Customer Service told me that 1st Strike labels for Collectors Club members will NOT have a flag or buffalo picture. The label wil simply say First Strike. The Flag when available or the buffalo picture is only available on bulk orders. Kinda like the little circle star on Bulk Satin Finish orders.
GrandAm
UPDATE 8/25/08:::
Customer Service just contacted me. Apparently what I was told on 8/22/08 was a mistake. ANYONE who gets 1st Strike labels on the 2008-W Gold Buffalo will get the Buffalo Label. The Flag label is not available and they will not put just First Strike on the label
GrandAm