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PCGS says it it a counterfeit.....what is the giveaway??

skeeterskeeter Posts: 177
in U.S. Coin Forum
The weight is correct......what do you see that looks suspicious?????PicPic2

Comments

  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 18,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Linka no worka!
  • skeeterskeeter Posts: 177
    image
  • skeeterskeeter Posts: 177
    pic
  • skeeterskeeter Posts: 177
    pic2
  • COALPORTERCOALPORTER Posts: 2,900 ✭✭
    do they really say counterfeit or do they say auth. suspect?
  • skeeterskeeter Posts: 177


    << <i>do they really say counterfeit or do they say auth. suspect? >>



    NOT GENUINE to be exact!!!
  • illini420illini420 Posts: 11,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know the series at all, so no clue if it is like this on the genuine coin, but the spacing on the letters in "liberty" is way off.

    Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700

  • fruitloopsfruitloops Posts: 343
    It's hard to tell without seeing it in hand. It looks like the reverse has some slight loss of detail due to the one-to-one transfer die process used with a geniune host coin.

    The reeding looks even, and I don't see any spikes from the denticals. You might want to look at it under 10x maginification with a loupe and look for tool marks through the letters, or depressions on the coin. The depression will have luster in it and will match the sourrinding fields of the coin where as a contact mark will show metal disturbance.
  • adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    The "I" in UNITED has a missing serif on the top.

    The "I" in AMERICA may also be missing a serif but it could be illumnation.

    Look closely at those "I" letters on the obverse? Perfect or malformed?


  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 9,317 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know the series at all... were some of the 3 dollar pieces generated by hte same "Omega" forger that produced the very authentic looking $5 golds?
    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

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  • adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    Look at the reverse closely. It may match the counterfeit 1857 on page 98 of the US Gold Detection Counterfeit Guide.

    On the reverse, the left side lowest leaf. It looks like it has a depression in it right about where the book says to look

    Also, to the right of the corn on the right is a depression. I can see a spot in your image corresponding to the location of that depression in the book.

    Since I can see five out of eight indicators in the counterfeit book...i'm going with that.

    The letters in 'liberty' do in fact look sort of oddly positioned on a real coin.

  • BarcatBarcat Posts: 195 ✭✭
    Broken upper left serif on I in United and in America. However the broken serif is found on some genuine pieces. Look for lines through AM in America. Tool marks between chin and UN in United. Tool marks on the throat.

    Reverse Depressions on the lowest broad leaf on the left. Depression betweem leaves and rim at K2.

    I have one with the broken serifs but none of the other characteristics.

    Mine came back not Authentic so i had to go and buy Bill Fivaz's book.
    Carolyn
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most of those with the missing serif of the I are fake, but not all. There appear to be some linear toolmarks between the chin and the UN of UNITED. On the reverse, I believe I can see a depression on the lowest broad leaf left and between the leaves and rim at 2:00. This corresponds to the forgery illustrated in Fivazs' book on US gold fakes, p. 98.
    Also-- are there tiny raised pimples on the cheek? The reverse letters and 3 look fat to me, also.

    I didn't see the post before mine with essentially the same info-- must have been composing at the same time, still 2 independent confirmations doesn't hurt.
  • fruitloopsfruitloops Posts: 343
    Wow, you guys are right. This looks to be the same counterfeit in the Bill Fivaz book on counterfeit US gold coins. I'm holding the book right now
  • PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    Not usre how many dies were used for that date but the 1857 I looked at on Heritage the letter E in liberty has full serifs on it. After looking at yours more several of the letters on the obverse look to be missing serifs.


    image

    image
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • fruitloopsfruitloops Posts: 343


    << <i>I don't know the series at all... were some of the 3 dollar pieces generated by hte same "Omega" forger that produced the very authentic looking $5 golds? >>




    Yes, but I doubt this is one of them. I forget where he put the omega symbol, I think it was in the E on one of the words or it could've been on the 3 on the reverse.
  • FishyOneFishyOne Posts: 376

    Looks like the counterfeiter selected the "sans serif" font for this copy.

    image
  • skeeterskeeter Posts: 177


    << <i>Broken upper left serif on I in United and in America. However the broken serif is found on some genuine pieces. Look for lines through AM in America. Tool marks between chin and UN in United. Tool marks on the throat.

    Reverse Depressions on the lowest broad leaf on the left. Depression betweem leaves and rim at K2.

    I have one with the broken serifs but none of the other characteristics.

    Mine came back not Authentic so i had to go and buy Bill Fivaz's book. >>



    YOU GUYS ARE GOOD......

    Both I's are missing serifs....There are tool marks between the chin and the UN....There is lines through the AM.........there is a depression in the lower left broad leaf.........Just like the one on page 98.....it looks like they used this one for the book!!!
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Please enter me in your giveaway... Thanks!
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These show up with some regularity on eBay. It's not uncommon to see different obv/rev pairings. The purchaser of this coin certainly has recourse with seller if resistant to giving a refund; there is no statute of limitations on selling counterfeit US coins, as far as I know.
  • PrivateCoinCollectorPrivateCoinCollector Posts: 2,415 ✭
    Loss of detail in the headdress. Liberty letters look too fat. It is a good fake however.
    Morgan HerdTO Gold Mine
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,484 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are many real authentic 1857 gold $3's that have the missing serifs on the I's. Most likely one of these coins was used to create the false dies to make this counterfeit. The omegaman counterfeit $3 was dated 1882.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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