Is this Jack Nicklaus signed rookie card autopenned? JSA Error??

thenavarro · August 2, 2008 12:06PM

I was bidding on ebay for this Jack Nicklaus signed rookie card. (I just retracted my bid because of autopen and reported the auction to trust and safety, we'll see if it gets pulled or not) It comes with a COA from James Spence Authentication which is usually pretty reliable. However, the uniformity of the sig along with the consistent flow and the strokes in the sig all being the same size, kinda began to worry me, so I got to looking at other Nicklaus autos for comparison and found this autopenned book. It's a little tough because the book scan is so small, but don't the two sigs look exactly the same?

Isn't this 1981 Donruss Nicklaus signed by an autopen?? I'm a big fan of JSA, but did they blunder this one this badly??

Thanks,

Mike

ripkenintheminors · August 2, 2008 12:38PM

I've had more than a few doubts lately when it comes to some cards in JSA slabs. For example, there was a '57 Unitas that looked nothing like any Unitas sig I had ever seen, even sigs dating back to his rookie year.

Joewoowoo · August 2, 2008 12:44PM

I can see why you think its a auto pen , they are almost identical, except that the the right hand bottom portion loop of the J is lot straighter than its counterpart, which is slanted toward the left. You can pobably figure it out if someone ill high res scan the auto. good luck , hope it works out.

fandango · August 2, 2008 12:46PM

JSA teamed up with BGS for a reason......draw your own conclusion

thenavarro · August 2, 2008 1:16PM

I figured out how to rotate the book sig to put it on the same line as the card sig, still looks autopen to me, here are the two sigs for comparison, glad I found it before I got burned on geting it for my signed rookies collection:

Card sig:

Book sig:

hofautos · August 2, 2008 1:34PM

<< I figured out how to rotate the book sig to put it on the same line as the card sig, still looks autopen to me, here are the two sigs for comparison:

Card sig:

Book sig:

>>

Also the fact that the N touches the J in the EXACT same spot, sure makes you believe so....

thenavarro · August 2, 2008 1:38PM

<< 

<< 

Also the fact that the N touches the J in the EXACT same spot, sure makes you believe so.... >>

Yeah, it's autopen definitely. Either JSA blew it, or the seller substituted the real card out with the autopenned card. I can't tell whether that's a pic of the card on the JSA COA or if that is the card lying on top of the JSA letter.

Mike

thenavarro · August 2, 2008 1:46PM

Forgot the link to the auction if anyone wanted to see it and the seller:

ebay Jack Nicklaus JSA authenticated but autopenned rookie card

StanTheManMusial · August 2, 2008 1:51PM

Yes, I believe it's an autopen, Mike. Looks like an error was made by JSA.

StanTheManMusial · August 2, 2008 2:08PM

<< JSA teamed up with BGS for a reason......draw your own conclusion >>

You care to elaborate on this?

VitoCo1972 · August 2, 2008 3:51PM

That signature is definitely an autopen. I have way too much experience with Nicklaus to ever believe any crap like that is real.

storm888 · August 2, 2008 6:03PM

Get the rope.

DrJ · August 2, 2008 10:36PM

<< JSA teamed up with BGS for a reason......draw your own conclusion >>

Yawn.

RipublicaninMass · August 3, 2008 1:38AM

Complaints two autos don't look alike....complaints they look too much alike

.

onebamafan · August 3, 2008 2:26AM

I have to agree......................looks to good.

hofautos · August 3, 2008 2:52AM

<< Complaints two autos don't look alike....complaints they look too much alike

. >>

Too much alike and exactly alike are not the same.

thenavarro · August 3, 2008 3:45AM

I notified the seller legendsgalleryltd but evidently they don't want to believe the evidence or they do not have enough integrity to pull the auction down. I know they got my message because they sent me a blank reply with no message a few hours ago.

I now will not buy from them in the future. I have no problem with someone making a mistake and listing an item they believe to be real, but when shown otherwise, and they don't do something about it, by either pulling the item, or modifying the description to show it's autopenned or not real, then to me that shows a severe lack of integrity.

It amazes me what values that some dealers, collectors, etc, are willing to compromise over $79.95

Mike

Golfcollector · August 3, 2008 4:19AM

This isn't even his rookie card

storm888 · August 3, 2008 4:23AM

"...but when shown otherwise, and they don't do something about it, by either pulling the item, or modifying the description to show it's autopenned or not real, ..."

///////////////////////////////////////////////////

For those sellers who may not know:

When somebody notifies you there is "a problem," take the darn listing DOWN.
Do your DD. Communicate with the person making the challenge; find out what
they KNOW.

Nav:

The problem mostly stems for stubborness and stupidity; not from poor integrity.
MOST fakes are listed in error. When called on them, MANY sellers simply dig their
heels in and refuse to be confused by the facts. Smart sellers pull the listings and
get to the bottom of the problem.

thenavarro · August 3, 2008 4:24AM

<< This isn't even his rookie card >>

If you are referring to either those large Sportscaster cards from the 70's or to the cartoonish looking cards put out around 79, then I'd rather have the Donruss for my collection. If you are not referring to those, then does he have a mainstream earlier rookie than the Donruss?

Mike

thenavarro · August 3, 2008 9:04AM

The seller finally pulled it down after I sent him another followup message. Seemed a bit irked by it

Here's my message and his response follows:

Dear legendsgalleryltd,

I sent you a message last night showing that this card was autopenned but the auction is still running without you having made any modification in the title or description to show that it is NOT signed by Nicklaus and is in fact signed by an autopen and is NOT genuinely signed. You sent me a blank reply or else ebay removed what you sent. In case you didn't see it in my original message, here is another item signed by the same autopen 370067300742 there is NO question that the card is NOT signed by Nicklaus. Are you willing to damage your reputation by continuing to allow your auction to run inaccurately described all over a $79.95 card??? Everyone occasionally makes listings mistakes, but when they are pointed out, should have the integrity to pull them down.

- thenavarro

And their response:

Dear thenavarro,

THIS SOUNDS LIKE 100% blackmail. I dont know who you are , but your stating your opinion , expertise is better than ONE OF the MAIN AUTHENTICATORS allowed by EBAY. I WILL TAKE IT DOWN , BUT THREATNING OUR REPUTATION ... WITH AN AUTHENTICATED ITEM W/ CERT - LOA FROM J. SPENCE , SEEMS THATS BETWEEN HIM AND YOU ! WE'VE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM ( EBAYER ) SAYING THERE WORD / EXPERTISE IS LAW , AS YOU ARE SAYING NOW.

PLEASE DONT PARTICIPATE IN OUR AUCTIONS.

LEGENDSGALLERY

- legendsgalleryltd

Golfcollector · August 4, 2008 10:30AM

<< 

<< This isn't even his rookie card >>

If you are referring to either those large Sportscaster cards from the 70's or to the cartoonish looking cards put out around 79, then I'd rather have the Donruss for my collection. If you are not referring to those, then does he have a mainstream earlier rookie than the Donruss?

Mike >>

I am referring to his 1971 Barratts sportsman card, which is in fact his rookie card

Just becuse it is not american does not mean it is not his rookie...

matter of fact, most all golf cards prior to the donruss set were made overseas....but as Americans we seem to think if we did not make it, then it can't be important.....

BunchOBull · August 4, 2008 10:41AM

<< 

<< 

<< This isn't even his rookie card >>

If you are referring to either those large Sportscaster cards from the 70's or to the cartoonish looking cards put out around 79, then I'd rather have the Donruss for my collection. If you are not referring to those, then does he have a mainstream earlier rookie than the Donruss?

Mike >>

I am referring to his 1971 Barratts sportsman card, which is in fact his rookie card

Just becuse it is not american does not mean it is not his rookie...

matter of fact, most all golf cards prior to the donruss set were made overseas....but as Americans we seem to think if we did not make it, then it can't be important..... >>

Pictures?

thenavarro · August 4, 2008 11:23AM

<< 
I am referring to his 1971 Barratts sportsman card, which is in fact his rookie card

Just becuse it is not american does not mean it is not his rookie...

matter of fact, most all golf cards prior to the donruss set were made overseas....but as Americans we seem to think if we did not make it, then it can't be important..... >>

I honestly don't care if a card is made in America or if its made in the Sudan, or even Mogadishu (I would love to have the Japanese cards of Sadaharu Oh, or even Ichiro autographed, or perhaps a Brazilian card of Pele) , I was just unaware of the existence of this card. Are they hard to find? What size are they? What could I expect a VG or better copy to set me back $$ wise. Any chance you could post a picture?

I'm not sure what the rookie card of Arnold Palmer is either. Would you know?

Thanks for your help,

Mike

Is this Jack Nicklaus signed rookie card autopenned? JSA Error??

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