I like 1794 dollars but not this one in upcoming Platinum night.

bidask · July 19, 2008 3:20AM

This 1794 $ does not look VF.

At least from the picture, I cannot see a full date, I see wear into the rims and the scratch is horrible.

Your thoughts?

ColonialCoinUnion · July 19, 2008 3:23AM

I think that is one of the very few original looking examples I've seen in this grade range.

bidask · July 19, 2008 3:25AM

<< I think that is one of the very few original looking examples I've seen in this grade range. >>

please defend the assigned grade

doh · July 19, 2008 3:29AM

I think it's a VF based on the really nice hair detail. The date is notoriously weakly struck on 1794 Dollars. I believe what you call "wear" is actually just a typical strike.

7Jaguars · July 19, 2008 3:29AM

Technical grade. I don't care if that is the level of wear on a poorly struck specimen as the visual appear of the "leftovers" is rather bad. God bless the buyer of this one.

TahoeDale · July 19, 2008 3:36AM

Dan,

The 25 grade is usually a pretty poor example, and this one fits. I too think it is on the low end, as there have been several sold in the last 5 years that have more detail in the date, and without the prominent scratch.

The best one I have ever viewed( not counting the 2 Cardinal specimens) sold for about 750,000, graded at the time as a 61. It was better looking in the original 55 holder.

Now, that was a coin to die for.

Edit: Check Heritage archives for the Bass coin sold in 2005

Quarternut · July 19, 2008 3:57AM

It is listed as a F-12 in the 1794 pedigree book.

QN

bidask · July 19, 2008 4:02AM

<< It is listed as a F-12 in the 1794 pedigree book.

QN >>

So, NGC gave it 3 bumps to VF 25!

Who assigns grades in the 1794 pedigree book? Was it Martin Logies?

Coin Finder · July 19, 2008 4:15AM

These were the first large dollar coins struck from a very
inexperienced mint so they were struck poorly. NGC was generous with the grade so that it will always be in a NGC holder. No one would crack it out.

ColonialCoinUnion · July 19, 2008 4:19AM

<< 

<< I think that is one of the very few original looking examples I've seen in this grade range. >>

please defend the assigned grade >>

I can't.

bidask · July 19, 2008 4:21AM

<< 

<< 

<< I think that is one of the very few original looking examples I've seen in this grade range. >>

please defend the assigned grade >>

I can't. >>

I certainly agree its original.

MidLifeCrisis · July 19, 2008 4:24AM

<< NGC was generous with the grade so that it will always be in a NGC holder. No one would crack it out. >>

If I were considering buying this coin, I would bid what I thought it was worth based on my own grade assessment. If I won it, I would try to cross it into a PCGS holder even if that meant downcrossing it. I think it would "look" better in a holder that more accurately reflects its grade...and I think it would be more sell-able as well.

Edited for clarity...

ColonialCoinUnion · July 19, 2008 4:25AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< I think that is one of the very few original looking examples I've seen in this grade range. >>

please defend the assigned grade >>

I can't. >>

I certainly agree its original. >>

Some of the examples to trade in recent years look like they've been total re-dos, then stripped and started over (usually more than once).

ColonialCoinUnion · July 19, 2008 4:27AM

<< NGC was generous with the grade so that it will always be in a NGC holder. No one would crack it out. >>

I would absolutely downcross that -

pcgs69 · July 19, 2008 4:42AM

I believe I read somewhere that the reason 1794 dollars were often weakly struck was because the equipment was built to handle up to half dollars. The dollars were too large to strike sufficiently.

Quarternut · July 19, 2008 4:56AM

<< I believe I read somewhere that the reason 1794 dollars were often weakly struck was because the equipment was built to handle up to half dollars. The dollars were too large to strike sufficiently. >>

I believe this is correct as the press built for the dollars was not completed and installed until around May 1795.

Where is Firstmint he should know? Calling Firstmint!!

QN

MrEureka · July 19, 2008 6:31AM

Without the big scratch in the left obverse field, I'd call it a solid 30.

Tvac897 · July 19, 2008 6:47AM

<< It is listed as a F-12 in the 1794 pedigree book.

QN >>

Where do i find this book?

Quarternut · July 19, 2008 7:42AM

Where do i find this book?

It is the "1794 The History and Genealogy of the First United States Dollar" by Jack Collins & Walter Breen. This unfinished manuscript was published and printed in limited quantity by George Kolbe & Alan Merghrig in 2007.

As far as I know all of the copies produced were sold and it is not available for sale.

Although the book is clearly far from a complete work, there is a condition census of the known 1794 dollars with plates for almost every coin and is invaluable in tracking where a particular coin has been. My guess is that Jack Collins is the one who has applied grades to the coins listed in the book.

QN

TheRegulator · July 19, 2008 7:57AM

Perhaps the scratch is the one thing that has saved the coin from being a dipped-out and failed attempt at "improving."

I like it.

ColonialCoinUnion · July 19, 2008 7:57AM

<< Perhaps the scratch is the one thing that has saved the coin from being a dipped-out and failed attempt at "improving." >>

You might be right.

firstmint · July 19, 2008 8:19AM

I wondered why my ears were ringing...

QN is correct in that the new dollar press wasn't finished and ready for operation until May of 1795. Adam Eckfedlt had been working on modifying the large press (acquired from Rutter & Co. in March 1794) and replacing worn out parts since January of 1795.

The 1794 dollars were struck on a press that had a worn out screw, die cups and slider bar, and other mis-aligned pieces. That is why the vast majority of the 1794's show weakness in the strike. The press was worn out, not the dies being misaligned.

The Collins 1794 book was printed on a subscription basis last year, with less than 100 copies being produced.

The Logies book on 1794 dollars carried a publication date of 2004, and is now out of print.

lloydmincy · July 23, 2008 3:04AM

It is a proper grade for the coin, IMO. Most were weak strikes, and don't be fooled by the weakness of strike on the left side/date. Of course you are buying the coin, not the plastic when you bid!!!

tahoe98 · July 23, 2008 3:09AM

i'm afraid i'd have to give that coin a..........................................STRICT OVERGRADE!!

dorkkarl · July 23, 2008 8:21AM

i think it's a he11uva coin

K S

dizzyfoxx · July 23, 2008 8:27AM

I would call that a F12, perhaps a F15 on a good day.

I like 1794 dollars but not this one in upcoming Platinum night.

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