Bust Half 1836/1336 Mystery
rhedden
Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
Recently, I submitted the coin below to PCGS for grading. It's an O-108a, 1836/1336. It came back to me in an ordinary "1836 Lettered Edge" slab without the variety designation, as AU53. Besides the fact that they clearly undergraded it, 
there is a mystery regarding why it was not certified as 1836/1336, even though I clearly indicated that on the submission form. Consider the following:
- The 1836/1336 has disappeared from the PCGS population report. It is no longer listed as a variety. (Edited to add: I now know it actually is still in there, just takes some searching to find it.)
- The 1836/1336 is still listed in the PCGS price guide, and is worth $1,500 as opposed to $850 for a "regular" 1836 in AU grades.
Since I have an obvious financial incentive to get my coin holdered as an 1836/1336, I'd like to resolve this with PCGS and get it added back into the population report. Here are my current theories as to what may have happened:
1) They don't grade this variety any more, and it was deleted from the Pop. report, but accidentally left in the price guide.
2) It was accidentally deleted from the Pop. report, resulting in a "mechanical error" on my slab label when they went to encapsulate my coin.
3) They will not holder an O-108a as "1836/1336," as the variety feature is not as clear as it is on the earlier die state, O-108.
4) I have made a horrible mistake, and this is not an O-108a at all. (It does have the die cracks exactly as described in the Overton book, though they did not show up well in the pic; all obverse denticles match the description).
Any suggestions on how to resolve this?
there is a mystery regarding why it was not certified as 1836/1336, even though I clearly indicated that on the submission form. Consider the following:- The 1836/1336 has disappeared from the PCGS population report. It is no longer listed as a variety. (Edited to add: I now know it actually is still in there, just takes some searching to find it.)
- The 1836/1336 is still listed in the PCGS price guide, and is worth $1,500 as opposed to $850 for a "regular" 1836 in AU grades.
Since I have an obvious financial incentive to get my coin holdered as an 1836/1336, I'd like to resolve this with PCGS and get it added back into the population report. Here are my current theories as to what may have happened:
1) They don't grade this variety any more, and it was deleted from the Pop. report, but accidentally left in the price guide.
2) It was accidentally deleted from the Pop. report, resulting in a "mechanical error" on my slab label when they went to encapsulate my coin.
3) They will not holder an O-108a as "1836/1336," as the variety feature is not as clear as it is on the earlier die state, O-108.
4) I have made a horrible mistake, and this is not an O-108a at all. (It does have the die cracks exactly as described in the Overton book, though they did not show up well in the pic; all obverse denticles match the description).
Any suggestions on how to resolve this?
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Comments
I will try the Q & A forum on this.
166 BHDs & 154 Die Varieties & Die States...
Bust Half Nut Club #180
Festivus Yes! Bagels No!
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She sure looks purty, though!
I also grade it AU55, and it has near full mint bloom, not evident in the photos. The toning is highly attractive, with overlapping pastels on both sides. The only problem I could find is some very light scuffs in front of the face, which are hard to see even in person. Because of these, i would knock it down from AU58 to AU55, but 53 was a bit harsh.
Edited to add- this is a common die marriage and is not worth the premium suggested. It should be valued as type.
this is a common die marriage and is not worth the premium suggested. It should be valued as type.
That could easily be said for half of the early coin varieties listed in the "Redbook." However, once a coin is listed as a major variety, collector demand will force the price up. This is true of many large cents and bust coins, which are rated R1 or R2 by die marriage. Another example would be the 1836 "3/inverted 3" half dime, which is as common as dirt, but a lot of people want one in their set, forcing the price up. I would agree with the elevated price for a PCGS graded 1836/1336, as there are only a few of them graded.
That reminds me- drddm showed me how to find the coin in the population report. There is a "+" sign under the "1836," and if one clicks on it, all of the 1836 halves that PCGS has graded and attributed by Overton number are listed separately. The 1836/1336 actually is in there after all. There are less than 10 graded total.
<< <i>This is not an overdate and may have something to do with why PCGS no longer recognizes it. An overdated die is one intended for use the year before (or several years earlier in some cases). Obviously this die wasn't intended for use in 1336. This is merely a die sinker's error and more akin to E over A(1814 O.108) or 15 stars cent.
Edited to add- this is a common die marriage and is not worth the premium suggested. It should be valued as type. >>
Yes, you're correct it's (O-108A) not an 'overdate' regardless of what the Book says... But it, is still considered an 1836/1336 just like the O-108. You can clearly see the chip inside the lower loop of the 8. This is the quote from Overton, Same as (Obv) 5 (which was used on the O-108) except for a die-crack and another joining all stars on the right.
Take Care
Ben
166 BHDs & 154 Die Varieties & Die States...
Bust Half Nut Club #180
Festivus Yes! Bagels No!