Since I am a Civil War buff and half dollar enthusiast, I tend to think of the 1804 dollar restrikes much like I consider the Scott restrikes of the famed 1861 [-O] Confederate half dollar, of which only four were ever minted.
The original half dollars, of which only one or two are in private hands and would be worth an obscene amount, are true historical treasures and of numismatic significance. The restrikes, made by a Northerner (!) almost 20 years later using altered 1861 US half dollars with their reverse removed and the Confederate reverse die, seem to me at least have very little historical importance. They were not even made in the US mint, and are often referred to as tokens. [Scott also struck other tokens with the Confederate die]
Nevertheless, they sell for big amounts whenever they appear at auction, with lightly circulated pieces selling in the thousands. While this is out of my price range today, at some point in my life I imagine I will have the funds to acquire one, but I see no reason for doing so. The 1861-O half dollars and 1861-C half eagles with telltale die marks, indicating they were probably produced after Louisiana and North Carolina joined the Confederacy, seem to me much more historical pieces, and they tend not to demand huge premiums over regular issues either. Likewise, silver dollars from 1798-1803 and other coinage of 1804 seem to be more historically relevant to that time period than the later restrikes. If it is pedigree that is interesting, the counterfiet 1804 and 1805 dollars mentioned previously by Laura have a storied history including many of the "who's who?" of early dollar specialty of the twentieth century, and seem to me just as fascinating in that respect.
Granted though, I still believe that the 1804 dollar restrike as well as the Scott restrikes are pieces of Americana that always pique interest with collectors and historians alike. They are rarities in their own right, and thus will always sell for premiums. I just find it hard to admire them as numismatic items.
I find it odd that so many are quick to condemn a restrike 1804, yet if I pointed out that a large percentage of 19th century proofs (many residing in your collections) are later restrikes, I'll bet that all I'd get is yawns. In fact, here come's another thread. Let's see what happens!
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>In any event, I prefer proofs made for non-collectors to proofs made for collectors. >>
Ok, just send me all your patterns that were made for collectors. You don't like them as much as the other kind of patterns. You can keep all the patterns made for non-collectors!
Ok, just send me all your patterns that were made for collectors. You don't like them as much as the other kind of patterns. You can keep all the patterns made for non-collectors!
Glad to send them, along with an invoice! Seriously, if I were to collect patterns I really would stick to the ones NOT made for collectors. I had to handle over a thousand patterns before I got to that point, but that's where I'm at.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
If I had a million to spend on coins, an 1804 dollar doesn't even make the top 100. (many $1k to 10k coins in front) Now if I had a 100 mill, maybe. neither scenario is likely anytime soon, so ? is academic.
I'd say I would spend 1.2 million. Why should this be out of line when you see all the other coins go into orbit?
Constellatio Collector sevenoften@hotmail.com --------------------------------- "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!" "If it don't make $" "It don't make cents""
My money goes into colonials. And if I had that money my wife would be very happy and I would be playing golf every day.
Constellatio Collector sevenoften@hotmail.com --------------------------------- "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!" "If it don't make $" "It don't make cents""
It's cool to look back at all of our responses, monday morning quarterback.....now that we know the coin brought 1,050,000 plus the juice. Hey, I wasn't to far off, my guess was 1,000,000 plus the juice.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
like i said, the 1804 is a token, a fantasy piece. a 1803 novodel is a proof of a coin that WAS ACTUALLY STRUCK! what's a 1804 a proof of? something that never existed?
btw, thanks for the notalgia. BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!
Comments
<< <i> So I'd rather have a Class I 1804 than an equally valued pile of late 19th century proof sets. >>
Call me weird, but I would rather have an equally valued pile of late date hundred dollar bills.
Mike, you KNOW you would just spend the money on coins! (Doesn't mean you're not weird, though.)
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The original half dollars, of which only one or two are in private hands and would be worth an obscene amount, are true historical treasures and of numismatic significance. The restrikes, made by a Northerner (!) almost 20 years later using altered 1861 US half dollars with their reverse removed and the Confederate reverse die, seem to me at least have very little historical importance. They were not even made in the US mint, and are often referred to as tokens. [Scott also struck other tokens with the Confederate die]
Nevertheless, they sell for big amounts whenever they appear at auction, with lightly circulated pieces selling in the thousands. While this is out of my price range today, at some point in my life I imagine I will have the funds to acquire one, but I see no reason for doing so. The 1861-O half dollars and 1861-C half eagles with telltale die marks, indicating they were probably produced after Louisiana and North Carolina joined the Confederacy, seem to me much more historical pieces, and they tend not to demand huge premiums over regular issues either. Likewise, silver dollars from 1798-1803 and other coinage of 1804 seem to be more historically relevant to that time period than the later restrikes. If it is pedigree that is interesting, the counterfiet 1804 and 1805 dollars mentioned previously by Laura have a storied history including many of the "who's who?" of early dollar specialty of the twentieth century, and seem to me just as fascinating in that respect.
Granted though, I still believe that the 1804 dollar restrike as well as the Scott restrikes are pieces of Americana that always pique interest with collectors and historians alike. They are rarities in their own right, and thus will always sell for premiums. I just find it hard to admire them as numismatic items.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>In any event, I prefer proofs made for non-collectors to proofs made for collectors. >>
Ok, just send me all your patterns that were made for collectors. You don't like them as much as the other kind of patterns. You can keep all the patterns made for non-collectors!
Glad to send them, along with an invoice! Seriously, if I were to collect patterns I really would stick to the ones NOT made for collectors. I had to handle over a thousand patterns before I got to that point, but that's where I'm at.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
They are neat "things". And they are an interesting part of history.
But they are priced like "real" (and key date) COINS.
I suppose if I had enough money for a $10 Million collection if would be cool to have.
But I would definitely buy the other $9 million first.
-KHayse
I would rather have a 1964 Peace dollar. Now those were at least officially made business strike coins.
-KHayse
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
---------------------------------
"No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!"
"If it don't make $"
"It don't make cents""
Is that a bid?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
---------------------------------
"No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!"
"If it don't make $"
"It don't make cents""
Seth
<< <i>I will bet anyone, anywhere, that this coin will not sell for as much as it did last time at Flannagan. >>
I'll take that bet.
Russ, NCNE
In honor of a thread participant who is now absent, "Bite me."
Mark
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>ttt >>
Why?????
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Why?????
Nostalgia.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Wise guy
roadrunner
<< <i>ttt >>
Another Methuselah thread.........
btw, thanks for the notalgia. BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!
K S