Feedback please: 1844 Seated Dime -History, background sought???
dizzyfoxx
Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭
Can I get some input on the history of this date and just how difficult it is to find in any grade? I've read that approx. $5,000 worth of the 1844 Seated Dimes that were on their way to SF were stolen by Indians, and that many were destroyed in the great Chicago fire. Also, why are they nicknamed "Little Orphan Annie"? Any and all input on the 1844 Seated Dime would be very much appreciated.
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Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
google was my friend...
from coinfacts:
Notes:
This date was nicknamed "Little Orphan Annie" by Frank Ross of Kansas City, MO, who promoted this date as a rarity during the early 1930's. The purported rarity of this date has been attributed to the theft by Indians of $5,000 worth of 1844 Dimes on their way to California and to their destruction in the great Chicago fire. In reality, much of the "rarity" of this date can be attributed to a hoard of 612 pieces offered for sale by Heritage Numismatic Auctions as Lot 6543 in their Baltimore Signature Sale, July 26-28, 2003. The hoard contained grades ranging from Poor-1 to PCGS AU-53.
The finest Uncirculated examples graded by PCGS are 2 MS-65's.
The finest Proof example graded by PCGS is a single PR-65.
Significant examples:
"Proof" (illustrated above). Ex - Pittman
Recent appearances:
PCGS Proof-63. Ex - Heritage Numismatic Auctions "Baltimore Signature Sale", July 26-28, 2003, Lot 6568
VF-20. Ex - Bowers and Merena Galleries' Robert W. Schwan Collection Sale, October 26-27, 2000, Lot 590, sold for $690.00
Very Good to Fine. Ex - Stack's "65th Anniversary Sale", October 17-19, 2000, Lot 503, "Orphan Annie Dime", not plated, sold for $299.00
from this link
The mysterious 'Orphan Annie' dime
Posted by bob
Why are the 1844 Seated Liberty dimes scarce, especially in higher grades? According to some, they were lost in the Great Chicago Fire. Others claimed it was bandits who made off with the coins, buried them, and then went to their graves not revealing the true location of the loot.
It's amazing how many times throughout U.S. coinage history wild theories like these have been used to explain the scarcity of a coin.
The 1844, known to collectors as the "Orphan Annie" dime (for having lost its mates), is replete with these colorful tall tales. The main story was one of war and lost love and went something like this:
Needing money to pay the soldiers mustered for a military expedition into Mexico, the Army's paymaster requisitioned a large supply of small change for the soldiers to use, which happened to be 1844-dated dimes.
Once in Mexico's capital, the soldiers became homesick and longed for female companionship. It was then that a clever one of their number came upon a plan to attract the local senoritas. Noticing they liked to wear fancy bangles, he fashioned some bracelets using the 1844 dimes.
It worked. A booming enterprise followed, as others in his company stumbled over each other, lining up to buy the bracelets. Not a single 1844 dime escaped the love-starved rush.
When the soldiers came home, the bracelets stayed behind. The soldiers were soon forgotten, the bracelets melted, and the silver was minted into Mexican coins.
The lost love story is just one of many theories advanced over the years to explain why, of an original mintage of 72,500 coins, fewer than might be expected survived.
Other tantalizing tales were:
The coins were improperly alloyed, so most of the mintage was melted by the U.S. Mint.
The entire issue had been bought up by a speculator, few survived.
A bank in New Orleans requisitioned Washington for $5,000 in dimes.
Fifty thousand were shipped by boat, but lost in a storm.
The coins were lost in the Great Chicago Fire.
The dimes gravitated to Pennsylvania and were swept away in the Great Johnstown Flood.
Seventy thousand of the coins were sent overland to the forty-niners in California via the Santa Fee Trail. Along the way, the coins were seized by bandits who hid the loot. The bandits were later killed, taking knowledge of the secret hiding place with them for eternity to their graves.
I like the last of these best. However, I leave it to others to go digging. Besides, for about $550, you can get one for your collection in Fine-12 from a dealer, without all of the work.
You can read more about the "Orphan Annie" dime in story by Tom LaMarre in the September issue of Coins magazine.
<< <i>google was my friend...
from coinfacts:
Notes:
This date was nicknamed "Little Orphan Annie" by Frank Ross of Kansas City, MO, who promoted this date as a rarity during the early 1930's. The purported rarity of this date has been attributed to the theft by Indians of $5,000 worth of 1844 Dimes on their way to California and to their destruction in the great Chicago fire. In reality, much of the "rarity" of this date can be attributed to a hoard of 612 pieces offered for sale by Heritage Numismatic Auctions as Lot 6543 in their Baltimore Signature Sale, July 26-28, 2003. The hoard contained grades ranging from Poor-1 to PCGS AU-53.
The finest Uncirculated examples graded by PCGS are 2 MS-65's.
The finest Proof example graded by PCGS is a single PR-65.
Significant examples:
"Proof" (illustrated above). Ex - Pittman
Recent appearances:
PCGS Proof-63. Ex - Heritage Numismatic Auctions "Baltimore Signature Sale", July 26-28, 2003, Lot 6568
VF-20. Ex - Bowers and Merena Galleries' Robert W. Schwan Collection Sale, October 26-27, 2000, Lot 590, sold for $690.00
Very Good to Fine. Ex - Stack's "65th Anniversary Sale", October 17-19, 2000, Lot 503, "Orphan Annie Dime", not plated, sold for $299.00
from this link
The mysterious 'Orphan Annie' dime
Posted by bob
Why are the 1844 Seated Liberty dimes scarce, especially in higher grades? According to some, they were lost in the Great Chicago Fire. Others claimed it was bandits who made off with the coins, buried them, and then went to their graves not revealing the true location of the loot.
It's amazing how many times throughout U.S. coinage history wild theories like these have been used to explain the scarcity of a coin.
The 1844, known to collectors as the "Orphan Annie" dime (for having lost its mates), is replete with these colorful tall tales. The main story was one of war and lost love and went something like this:
Needing money to pay the soldiers mustered for a military expedition into Mexico, the Army's paymaster requisitioned a large supply of small change for the soldiers to use, which happened to be 1844-dated dimes.
Once in Mexico's capital, the soldiers became homesick and longed for female companionship. It was then that a clever one of their number came upon a plan to attract the local senoritas. Noticing they liked to wear fancy bangles, he fashioned some bracelets using the 1844 dimes.
It worked. A booming enterprise followed, as others in his company stumbled over each other, lining up to buy the bracelets. Not a single 1844 dime escaped the love-starved rush.
When the soldiers came home, the bracelets stayed behind. The soldiers were soon forgotten, the bracelets melted, and the silver was minted into Mexican coins.
The lost love story is just one of many theories advanced over the years to explain why, of an original mintage of 72,500 coins, fewer than might be expected survived.
Other tantalizing tales were:
The coins were improperly alloyed, so most of the mintage was melted by the U.S. Mint.
The entire issue had been bought up by a speculator, few survived.
A bank in New Orleans requisitioned Washington for $5,000 in dimes.
Fifty thousand were shipped by boat, but lost in a storm.
The coins were lost in the Great Chicago Fire.
The dimes gravitated to Pennsylvania and were swept away in the Great Johnstown Flood.
Seventy thousand of the coins were sent overland to the forty-niners in California via the Santa Fee Trail. Along the way, the coins were seized by bandits who hid the loot. The bandits were later killed, taking knowledge of the secret hiding place with them for eternity to their graves.
I like the last of these best. However, I leave it to others to go digging. Besides, for about $550, you can get one for your collection in Fine-12 from a dealer, without all of the work.
You can read more about the "Orphan Annie" dime in story by Tom LaMarre in the September issue of Coins magazine. >>
Hey Richard, OUTSTANDING!!! and Thank you!
The 1846 dime is considerably scarcer and yet, cheaper (at least in lower grades).
<< <i>Way overrated because of the hoarding and the "Little Orphan Annie" fame.
The 1846 dime is considerably scarcer and yet, cheaper (at least in lower grades). >>
Is the "hoarding" that is being discussed directly related to this group?
<< <i>Is the "hoarding" that is being discussed directly related to this group? >>
Interestingly, this Heritage lot has the following in the description:
One of the many myths that grew out of the 1844 legend was that in 1844, California '49ers had requested $5,000 in small change. As the story goes, Washington granted this request and on the coins' trip westward, the 50,000 1844 dimes were captured and subsequently buried by Indians.
I'm no Ph.D. in history, but I'm pretty sure there weren't any '49ers in 1844. I'm also pretty sure that San Francisco would not have needed 50,000 dimes before gold was discovered in 1848.
Ray
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>Way overrated because of the hoarding and the "Little Orphan Annie" fame.
The 1846 dime is considerably scarcer and yet, cheaper (at least in lower grades). >>
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
The next part of the story lies in the National Postal Museum, in an obscure periodical entitled Philatelic West. When I get a chance to look at it, I'll fill you in on the details